Do you feel like this forum is too stage Orange?

[Preety_India]

I often had this feeling like this forum is too stage Orange. Like everyone is too concerned about what they can get out of this forum but less interested in how they can truly help each other. Of course the advice given here is helpful most of the time, but did it ever feel like the advice was too official without a touch of intimacy?

I also felt like the forum was very masculine most of the time, no I'm not talking about the male/female ratio, but rather how all the suggestions are tailored more towards a masculine way of handling things, outcome driven rather than feelings driven. Less integration of compassion and wholesomeness and a passive spiritual approach that mostly feels bogus or impractical. 

Like for example someone can talk about love, but when you actually talk to them, they run away from you. 

Also I have a lot of other questions regarding this forum. 

 

How is your relationship with this forum? How would you describe it? Is it love-hate, antagonistic,  like a mirror, loving, comfortable or complete dislike?

How do you feel about interacting here?

I would also add that throughout my experience with this forum, I always felt like the forum appeared very polite on the outer front but on the inside, things were a bit murky, in the sense I got a feeling of fakery, like people feign spiritual wisdom here, they say big big things in the Meditation section yet when you personally interact with them, there is a feeling of emptiness and distance /zero intimacy. 

Did anyone feel similarly?

 

[Fearless_Bum]

3 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I also felt like the forum was very masculine most of the time, no I'm not talking about the male/female ratio, but rather how all the suggestions are tailored more towards a masculine way of handling things, outcome driven rather than feelings driven. Less integration of compassion and wholesomeness and a passive spiritual approach that mostly feels bogus or impractical. 

What you're seeing here is spiritual ego, all about Mind. 

What's obvious and funny once you recognize it is that of course the thinker doesn't like simple, because Love is simple, as in foolish. Love has no logical reason, it's open, clear, and simple.

8 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I would also add that throughout my experience with this forum, I always felt like the forum appeared very polite on the outer front but on the inside, things were a bit murky, in the sense I got a feeling of fakery, like people feign spiritual wisdom here, they say big big things in the Meditation section yet when you personally interact with them, there is a feeling of emptiness and distance /zero intimacy. 

Spiritual ego, I find this happens a lot with most people on the path at some point, it's like a phase. 

I myself had that cold arrogance that came with telling people I'm God at some point. Takes some self honesty and surrendering to Not-Knowing to let go of that.

It's easy to make shit up on an online forum, it's a form of escapism. 

Inevitably the phase will come to an end.

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Fearless_Bum said:

 

I myself had that cold arrogance that came with telling people I'm God at some point. Takes some self honesty and surrendering to Not-Knowing to let go of that.

It's easy to make shit up on an online forum, it's a form of escapism. 

Inevitably the phase will come to an end.

Yes can relate. I felt that cold arrogance on multiple occasions.  I also feel that some of the spiritual stuff does not feel genuine. Because it doesn't involve interpersonal relationships, only an experience. But that would be like sitting down to do yoga. That feels less emotional and more technical. 

 

[Fearless_Bum]

@Preety_India I would just relax and enjoy life and just meditate at least 20 mins a day on top of that. 

I think some of the most humbling spiritual lessons come from everyday living.

Life is already sweet enough ?. 

[Happy Lizard]

@Preety_India Some of what is being discussed here in this forum are very deep interpersonal teachings, subjects or techniques. On top of that the whole self-actualization thing is about looking at one’s ego, you know, that thing you don’t want anyone to see or find out about. Once you have this combination it’s easy for someone to be knowledgeable but kind-of arrogant and, ego calling can be a thing, where else where thats kind of not normal. 
 

you really have to take self responsibility here, and listen to people (here or outside of this place) that resonate with you and help you personally. For example I still listen to a stage orange-green monk every night before I go to sleep, and even though his approach is simplistic and doesn’t touch on the complexity of the teachings here, I get a lot of benefit from him and enjoy his talks and it helps me live my life my life happier.

I only listen to Leo and/or this form to broaden my knowledge, learn new ideas, when I’m in the mode to discover something new. Or to keep things on the back burner so that i can use when It’s relevant to me. 

if you just exits on this place because “it’s the best place, and it ofer out of the world insights’” your kind of insisting on only going to a two star michellen restaurant and not eat anywhere else if you get my metaphor   

 

[Preety_India]

9 minutes ago, Happy Lizard said:

Once you have this combination it’s easy for someone to be knowledgeable but kind-of arrogant and, ego calling can be a thing, where else where thats kind of not normal. 

Do you think too much knowledge can create an ego?

 

[Happy Lizard]

@Preety_India ego calling is a problem like I said. It’s tricky, you have to be the judge in each and every different situation. 
 

[Hello from Russia]

I personally feel like the forum is too green

[Preety_India]

13 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

I personally feel like the forum is too green

What makes you think that? 

Is it because of the society section? 

If you're referring to the Society Section then I agree, there's a bit of green bias there with too much emphasis on green perspectives and some level of intolerance to right wing narratives. I guess that can be a bit stifling. I can sense the frustration among right wing people who think they're never being heard and stage Green excesses can appear threatening. I'm open to that. 

Yet other parts of the forum even including the meditation section, feels stage Orange to me. I personally feel that the meditation section has a lot of spiritual ego that sounds stage Orange to me because ego validation is some kind of an achievement and achievement oriented mentality is so stage orange. 

Also another aspect I observed is that stage Red is sort of demonized on this forum. I understand that stage Red can be despotic and tyrant, yet the healthy aspect of stage Red focuses on self defense which is an important life skill. 

 

[Flowerfaeiry]

1 hour ago, Hello from Russia said:

I personally feel like the forum is too green

It’s more blue and black actually 

[Raphael]

This is complicated...

[Preety_India]

29 minutes ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

It’s more blue and black actually 

Hehe made me laugh so hard. 

 

[Eph75]

Paradoxically, the path towards self-actualization poses this phenomena as an obstacle, only to eventually transcend towards recognizing perspectives as just that, and only that, perspectives, and all need to rate, evaluate or label those perspectives diminishes. 

Perspectives are valuable but only as a means to some end, and a perspective is only as useful as that perspective is towards reaching some desired outcome, whatever that outcome may be. 

More-so a tool to use than something worth holding on to, or being attached to, and to be able to more easily reach desired outcomes, any perspective is best replaced by some other perspective that better serves those outcomes. 

Stage orange desired outcomes are different from those of someone predominately green. Stage green perspectives are perfect to achieve stage green outcomes, but from a yellow perspective, are inefficient and misdirected in focus. 

For each individual on each of those stages these perspectives are inevitably "right" as they have emerged out of a need to grow, to deal with that which is in one's own world view, to eventually overcome and transcend that world view. 

I.e. no single thing can be "too anything", they just are, and they always coexist as long as not being actively censored. 

Change you position and your perspective is new. That does not mean that the now opposing perspectives wasn't there all along. It's just the inability to see them. 

6 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Like everyone is too concerned about what they can get out of this forum but less interested in how they can truly help each other.

What are you getting out of this forum, by doing what you perceive being "helping others" ?

There's a need within yourself that you are attempting to fulfill by doing everything that you do.

Asking ourselves how this is different, fundamentally and psychologically speaking, from that of the orange need, other than it shows up differently?

They are both an attempt to reach individual desired outcomes, conscious or subconscious ones, that ultimately live within you.

This means that nothing is too anything, it just is. You could say that it's being too focused on others that hold disagreeing values to those of ourselves, but that too, is just an expression of who and where we are, and simply just is.

[itachi uchiha]

Even though stage orange people are toxic, we need to be kind to them ,answer their questions with kindness.

[Preety_India]

14 hours ago, Eph75 said:

What are you getting out of this forum, by doing what you perceive being "helping others" ?

There's a need within yourself that you are attempting to fulfill by doing everything that you do.

Asking ourselves how this is different, fundamentally and psychologically speaking, from that of the orange need, other than it shows up differently?

When you are at stage orange, the locus is more towards the self, in stage Green and above, the locus is external and extended to community. 

Working for oneself and working for community are two entirely different things, their fundamental intention being irrelevant. One benefits the self and the other benefits the environment, even if the other benefited the self, it doesn't matter. 

For example if I had a certain amount of time, if I spend it at a gym to lose weight, versus I use that time to rescue a kitten and raise it. There's a huge difference. In one the sole beneficiary is me alone, in the latter, the kitten benefitted from my benevolent act, it was saved. Maybe I might have some internal gain in it, yet the kitten still benefitted from my act. 

Helping yourself and helping others will always be entirely different things, don't take it in a moralistic way. Take it practically. 

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Preety_India

[Eph75]

@Preety_India

Yes indeed, and explore that more deeply, add more complexity to it, the outcomes benefit others but the need is coming from within.

The expression of the different stages alternates between orientation towards self and others. 

The expression does shows up differently between red, orange and yellow (self-focused or withdrawn from world) , and that of blue, green and turquoise (world focused). This is not "pre green" and "post orange" though. Let's call it phases of developmental growth that needs growth from both aspects, and typically shows up that way, although to different degrees in different people. Some are leaning heavier towards the self, others towards world. 

Practically, even if your values makes you focus on helping others, there is still the own idea and need to "be good" that drives you toward that, and creates your values and world-view. That drive is inherently selfish, expressed through values of whatever stage one is at. The outcomes may likely benefit others/external, the drive is internal needs, whether deficiency or becoming needs. 

That selfishness isn't to be confused as being negative. It "just is" , and "is" even if you don't realize it yet. But as it is, it's fundamental to self-discovery and self- understanding. It's way helps us to stop focusing on the external world to find excuses, blame and justification for what is, and to look internally to find that our world-view and the reality that follows is a construct of our minds, and therefore changing the way we see things (which we own) change the meaning of that which we previously saw in a different way.

For example, "orange is bad" is a statement created by your own needs. This is really interesting from a green perspective as green values involves inclusivity and acceptance of everyone - that is, everyone who belongs to the accepted group.

Objectively speaking, orange isn't bad, and orange people aren't bad. It's just different, and serves other needs which needs to be met and transcended.

I'm more curious as to what holding that in your thought makes you feel, and more importantly, what it is that make you react in the first place, and how do you transcend that?

[Terell Kirby]

This is my first online forum experience, and from what i can tell .. online forums seems to be very attractive to socially dysfunctional people.

I keep my expectations quite low .. after all, you can't really connect or get to know a person's true character from just interacting with them on the internet.

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Eph75 said:

Practically, even if your values makes you focus on helping others, there is still the own idea and need to "be good" that drives you toward that,

This is an ego based perspective. Not everyone helps others to look "good." There is something called empathy and compassion towards someone else's suffering and the desire to put an end to the suffering without an expectation of a reward or a pat on the back. 

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

This is my first online forum experience, and from what i can tell .. online forums seems to be very attractive to socially dysfunctional people.

I keep my expectations quite low .. after all, you can't really connect or get to know a person's true character from just interacting with them on the internet.

Good point, in fact a great point. That's a lot of truth you packed in that little post.

[Eph75]

@Preety_India

Yes, and you're missing out on the complexity I'm pointing towards, but that's OK. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Eph75