Mahasamadhi VS Letting go of Absolutely everything you call Realty (The Ego)

[ZenSwift]

What's the difference?

I'm learning about the surrender required for 5meo, precisely WHAT is surrendered. Which is absolutely everything you call "reality".

And I'm thinking, when you're on the psychedelic, and in that moment that you feel that you're going to die forever, how do you distinguish THAT from a Mahasamadhi? Where you ACTUALLY leave your body?

How do you distinguish Awakening (Dying/Ego death, realizing all of reality is imagination) from Mahasamadhi? 

 

My ego is creating a fantasy that I will somehow accidently kill myself via Mahasamadhi if I surrender too fully on 5meo.

[Sempiternity]

One is choosing to wake up from the dream, the other is choosing not to go back to sleep. 

You cannot accidently kill yourself via Mahasamadhi. It is you, as God, choosing not to go back to being a human in a reality. It is chosen with all of God's will, so it cannot be accidental.   

[BipolarGrowth]

You distinguish it from mahasamadhi when you realize that your ass is not going to accidentally mahasamadhi by doing a psychedelic… lol

We’re talking about a huge difference in levels of development and mastery. I like your posts and drive quite a bit, but don’t fool yourself into thinking you’re at that level. Mahasamadhi is also traditionally not seen as an accidental thing from what I’ve seen. You should be a lot more concerned with some sort of rare heart issue being exacerbated by it resulting in your death even though that’s incredibly unlikely if you dose properly. 

[ZenSwift]

1 hour ago, Sempiternity said:

so it cannot be accidental. 

So if I understand you properly, when there is a Mahasamadhi, there is no doubt about that's what you're doing. Because how I imagine 5meo to be is that you are simply letting go of EVERYTHING. and I guess by the time you're conscious enough for a Mahasamadhi, you KNOW it for sure! It's not just a simple let go of all of your illusions...

@Sempiternity

 

1 hour ago, BipolarGrowth said:

when you realize that your ass is not going to accidentally mahasamadhi by doing a psychedelic

My point was not simply that the psychedelic is going to do that, but rather the conscious letting go of my life entirely, which IS what I plan to do when I take 5meo. A total ego annihilation. Becoming conscious of HOW I am imagining reality. 

@BipolarGrowth

1 hour ago, BipolarGrowth said:

but don’t fool yourself into thinking you’re at that level.

I think I'll be at that level when I realize love. By then I would have probably had several dozen awakenings. But yeah I'm NOT at that level at all by a longshot.

My idea of this popped into my mind is when I was listening to Leo's video of Outrageous Experiments In Consciousness.

But yeah I just don't know "the levels" so this is why I ask and make this thread.

 

1 hour ago, BipolarGrowth said:

You should be a lot more concerned with some sort of rare heart issue being exacerbated by it resulting in your death

I know but I'm not worried about that at all haha, so the ego will pick and choose another reason why not to take 5meo.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by ZenSwift

[Nahm]

@ZenSwift

Meditation and trips are best ime without bringing conjecture into them to validate or verify that the conjecture is true. It sets the stage, and that’ll be the very thing you were style with.  This can be a recipe for a most confusing rough ride. I’m not saying don’t trip or don’t utilize 5meo, but more, notice all the beliefs, hopes, expectations already held upon it. Trip is a rough way / time to address these things (beliefs). Could reframe trips as basically reward, pure receiving, rejoicing in having ‘done the work’. Less aftermath spiritual ego this way as well. Often one’s signature line holds the insight sought. 

Maybe allow this excitement & anticipation unto your creating, your life. Trips being icing on that cake. (Nothing personal meant here btw!) If a narrative isn’t even yours, just let it go. 

Death is a belief. Separate selves is a belief. Fear is an emotion, guidance about thoughts focused upon. Conjecture is conjecture. 

[BipolarGrowth]

On 12/26/2021 at 9:22 PM, ZenSwift said:

So if I understand you properly, when there is a Mahasamadhi, there is no doubt about that's what you're doing. Because how I imagine 5meo to be is that you are simply letting go of EVERYTHING. and I guess by the time you're conscious enough for a Mahasamadhi, you KNOW it for sure! It's not just a simple let go of all of your illusions...

@Sempiternity

 

My point was not simply that the psychedelic is going to do that, but rather the conscious letting go of my life entirely, which IS what I plan to do when I take 5meo. A total ego annihilation. Becoming conscious of HOW I am imagining reality. 

@BipolarGrowth

I think I'll be at that level when I realize love. By then I would have probably had several dozen awakenings. But yeah I'm NOT at that level at all by a longshot.

My idea of this popped into my mind is when I was listening to Leo's video of Outrageous Experiments In Consciousness.

But yeah I just don't know "the levels" so this is why I ask and make this thread.

 

I know but I'm not worried about that at all haha, so the ego will pick and choose another reason why not to take 5meo.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

I know you don’t think it’s just the psychedelic alone that would do that. I know you’re not an idiot. Of course it would have to be the psychedelic plus a crazy high level of existing development and the intention to leave the body for it to be mahasamadhi. I was just saying it takes a lot more than one dose of 5-MeO to get someone to have the choice of mahasamadhi. Maybe in Leo’s case he was close. That was after almost 30 days of back-to-back 5-MeO as well as probably more sober work into awakening and many more trips with other psychedelics. I still suspect he was not at the level of mahasamadhi even if he had continued, but maybe he was close to being the first person to accidentally awaken themselves to death in reliable recorded history. It seems pretty clear it would not be a choice made in a sober state to leave the body which is what I’ve at least heard of mahasamadhi being. I’m no expert in it. 
 

I’d say the number is probably closer to several hundred awakenings than several dozen. I guess it depends on what you call an awakening too. I say this as someone with hundreds of very strong experiences some newbies here would probably call “awakenings” if they had them which roll in daily for me now who recognizes I’m nowhere near mahasamadhi. The fact is it’s quite a blessing that mahasamadhi is so rare. Why would we want to stop the rollercoaster halfway through the ride? It seems like you get that to some degree at least based on your concern over it happening. 
 

I was already 99% sure that video is where this whole idea/thread came from when I first read it. 
 

Nobody knows the levels before they know them. There’s no shame in asking. I apologize if any part of my post seemed condescending. That’s not really what I intended. The initial part was basically just saying you’ll know it doesn’t produce mahasamadhi once you do it and look around after the trip is over. I just felt like saying in a spicier way. I guess it’s time to work on my sīla again like always. 
 

You know that, but you were still concerned about an incredibly low probability danger compared to a far more likely one because your ego doesn’t care about death supposedly. Why would you care about the accidental mahasamadhi? Come on now. I had an experience likely a bit like Leo did with the 5-MeO. I would’ve surely thought up to that point that I wasn’t worried about dying in some sort of amazingly spiritually transcendent way. When I arrived at that moment though where it felt like I really did have a choice to leave this reality without physical pain or anything like that, I of course had all of my loved ones and things I cared about flash before my eyes, in a sense, and was begging God to keep me here in this life. 
 

Rest assured, if you achieve mahasamadhi at any point, I vow to become a modern day bard and ruin karaoke nights in my local dingy bars singing of your spiritual elegance. Ah. There’s the spice again. Back to the sīla I go…

[The0Self]

The one who interacts with others is not the enlightened one -- that one is simply an after image of energy patterns. The enlightened see the unenlightened as all appearance and no substance. However, the enlightened do not see their own character as enlightened -- the one speaking to someone else now is not the enlightened one. The enlightened one is the speaking, and without other.

[ZenSwift]

On 12/27/2021 at 8:13 AM, Nahm said:

This can be a recipe for a most confusing rough ride. I’m not saying don’t trip or don’t utilize 5meo, but more, notice all the beliefs, hopes, expectations already held upon it.

I really like the idea of just being open to the what the medicine can show you. Yes an intention, contemplation and massive amounts of focus is very useful, but at the same time I need to be open that the question that I have has an improper metaphysics baked already in the question, causing massive confusion when I don't get the answer that my biased ego wants.

 

16 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

I’d say the number is probably closer to several hundred awakenings than several dozen.

That's very relieving to read.

Thanks for your time to write this post. I appreciate it brother, much love.

It seems like I need to let go of my ideas of what I even think Mahasamadhi is because I am conflating it way too much with my perceived physical existence being wiped away. Just gotta surrender to wherever the toad takes me and let go of the self/reality to get "there".

[Nahm]

@ZenSwift

Understood. I can only suggest consideration it’s not about death or conjectures of conceptualization of death in the first place, and this is stuff you heard and seem to semi-believe, and plan to find out about, and that in truth it is aversion from regular aspects of life in the Maslow’s pyramid sense. But with respect, sincerely, you do you and I wish you well and safe travels. 

[Nahm]

@BipolarGrowth

I don’t think you mean to, and I think it’s a yet seen having bought into authority & conjecture therein, but you’re kind of (dangerously imo) glorifying the falsity of awakening”s” primarily via the conjecture / belief in “levels”. (Not in regard to you if you will, but generally speaking…) It is not a triumph or achievement to do such little introspection & honest expression, that one requires ‘hundreds of awakenings’. This is misinformation in regard to awakening, as these are substance experiences, which do not increase “one’s levels”, “baseline consciousness”, or “add up” to being anything other than aversion, thought attachment, or, monkey mind (as in you are not your thoughts / you are not a monkey). Of course, this is just an observation & opinion. Nothing personal meant whatsoever. In this view if you will, this is all unchecked ambition brought into spirituality as if there were a competition or something. Much love for ya here & I hope you know & feel that as Well. 

[Nahm]

10 hours ago, ZenSwift said:

It seems like I need to let go of my ideas of what I even think Mahasamadhi is because I am conflating it way too much

 

On 12/26/2021 at 6:33 PM, ZenSwift said:

Where you ACTUALLY leave your body?

This is belief, that there is a you or ‘separate self’ in the body, which could leave the body. Again, I’m not against psychedelics, but this is a belief, the activity of thought. I’m all for responsible breakthroughs trips, but the thought activity will resume until meditatively addressed. If there were a magic pill, I’d (and many, many other people so to speak) be handing it out all day everyday. As well, nothing taken personally I hope. 

[Loba]

Hmmn... can you die from mahasamahdi?  Just by letting go of all karma?  Just leave the body?

[BipolarGrowth]

@ZenSwift no problem broski, much love to you as well. Keep up the good work ?

[BipolarGrowth]

11 hours ago, Loba said:

Hmmn... can you die from mahasamahdi?  Just by letting go of all karma?  Just leave the body?

That is what the definition of mahasamadhi typically is from what I’ve seen — that one leaves the body of their own volition after a typically very long life of spiritual practice. 

[Javfly33]

Jeez...you guys really like to philosphy-masturbate...

Dont worry, you Will grow out of It.

You Will learn is just another drug, you never Will be enlightened By It and while It may reveal some interesting perspectives/Consciousness states, you Will find is pretty unuseful in the "material real world".

The fact that some of you guys are concern with Mahasamadhi is a joke. LoL

[Khan 0]

On 12/27/2021 at 2:33 AM, ZenSwift said:

How do you distinguish Awakening (Dying/Ego death, realizing all of reality is imagination) from Mahasamadhi? 

Identical. According to you mahasamadhi is death. So you are the ego. When there is no ego, there will be no mahasamadhi, you, nor body.  

[FlyingLotus]

@Javfly33  If you’d actually experienced this problem you’d realize it’s absolutely possible to experience a Oneness that’s so deep that you feel it will kill you.  That’s especially true if you’re trying to raise your consciousness and not just tripping recreationally.  It's a scary experience and worth asking other people for advice about. Bad trips happen and they can be traumatizing if you’re new to psychedelics.  I’m personally glad @ZenSwift started this thread.  It's been an interesting read.  

[Javfly33]

@FlyingLotus ive done plenty of trips with the intention of awakening/non duality/Truth, and not recreationally.

You can Tell yourself he story you want, But the fact is, everybody here is running around chasing material stuff as any other "mainstream human" that hasnt tried None of those Psychedelics.

 

[BipolarGrowth]

@Javfly33 this is why we should direct our chasing of material stuff to be done mainly for the benefit of chasing immaterial stuff for the purpose of chasing the ability to not chase anything ❤️

[FlyingLotus]

I didn't say there's anything wrong with tripping recreationally or chasing material stuff.  You'd die if you stopped chasing material stuff.  I'm saying that talking about bad trips is helpful.  Psychedelics are very powerful.  They're no joke, and honestly, it's quite rude to scoff at other people's problems and bad trips.  That's just my opinion.  Yours may differ.  

Edited January 1, 2022 by FlyingLotus