Can you be a Yellow capitalist?

[Lews Therin]

I will begin this saying i am not talking about fringe cases. Different sorts os traumas can make people have any sort of crazy conviction that we couldn't even imagine.

I'm talking about consistently having yellow thinkers defending capitalism as the best way forward.

I had this thought after watching the first half of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKvVdGNzCQk&t=3309s

Capitalism is a system that inherently creates too many negative feedback loops and has some fucked up incentives for people to be willing to do anything to have the "upper hand".

It is the famous Game A vs Game B.

For example, if i cut all the trees in my countrie i will be able to outcompete my neighbour, and if he cuts all the trees in his he will be able to outcompete me. Even though if we both cut all our trees it will stop raining and we both gonna get fucked up.

One of the things that stuck with me from Leo's Yellow video was when he said yellow was about win-win-win.

 

Well, capitalism is about win-win. If there is less fish in the sea, the price will go up and so more people will start fishing. The person who eats the fish will feel very special while the one who sold the fish will get rich. The rest of the world will pay the price as that species might go extinct, and possibly even cause an environmental collapse.

We are having literally dozens of species going extinct every single day. Environmental destruction and social inequality don't seem to be bugs of capitalism, they are the results of hte capitalist system working normally.

So i generally feel like you couldn't possibly be a at yellow, maybe not even a solid green, and still support this system.

That said, i know i have my own biasses, and would love to hear other people's opinion on this.

 

[mememe]

@Lews Therin why? you might be right about green but yellow is more oriented towards compromise and real success in sense of changes in society. a yellow thinker might have thought through all pro‘s and con‘s in sense of harsh system changes and might tend to more realistic developments in sense of doability. if a yellow thinker does not have a realistc plan in sense of time and doability to replace a capitalist system s*he might try to find longterm solutions to improve that system instead until the point when better systems can develop collectively more naturally. there is no yellow in my oppinion without a diplomatic approach securing a flourishing society with more peacful solutions a green person would do - it does not mean yellow would give up principles of social justice, the focus point of implementation is just a different one. yellow thinkers are more human centered than green people, only in a turquoise approach you‘ll find more visionary solutions for real soft system changes, a challenge for yellow is def: not getting stuck there especially if orange sabotages success.

Edited December 28, 2021 by mememe

[Terell Kirby]

Making money on the free market is not exclusive to Orange, and can be done at all levels of the spiral.

One should not demonize capitalism, in the same way that one should not demonize socialism. Each has its pros and cons.

[Nahm]

Un-secrecy, un-suppression, un-value, un-purpose, un-meaning = un-shame for the human win. 

[Happy Lizard]

@Nahm if I read this correctly you mean the more you allow a thing to take it's natural course the less of a problem it becomes ? 

if I took all the Un in that equation it seems to say : suppression, value, purpose, meaning = shame for the human to win.

[Nahm]

@Happy Lizard

Not “shame for the human to win”.  The human race ‘win’ is, no more shame. 

[Happy Lizard]

@Nahm aha !

[Nahm]

@Happy Lizard

Sorry… I should’ve said human race, or mankind. 

[snowyowl]

Environmental destruction and social inequality have been features of many historical eras long before capitalism was invented. Here in the UK we started chopping down our primal forests in the neolithic and of course there's been much inequality. So capitalism inherited these features from its parents, and it could argue that, as it developed over the centuries, began to see the benefits in having a more highly educated and healthy workforce, who were rich enough to afford luxury products mass produced.

But the dirty secret is that it required the serfdom to be offshored to developing countries to cut costs, also to not count the cost of environmental destruction in its bottom line.

The Achilles heel with capitalism has been its short sightedness and short termism. We're now living in an exciting time when capitalism is being tested. Its chickens are coming home to roost. Can it adapt to: 

Social justice.

Environmental sustainability. 

Demographics (capitalist countries don't have enough children to survive). 

So in short, I think a stage yellow capitalism would need to look different from both orange and green capitalisms. Probably by bringing in elements from other systems and compromising. Perhaps even change its name too if necessary. But hey, we need stage green economics to get tried and tested before we're ready for orange. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by snowyowl

[Jodistrict]

Capitalism is threatening the survival of Madre Tierra.  Do you think it is a coincidence that a virus is now the problem?   Viruses  and living organisms have been coexisting in a dynamic equilibrium for billions of years. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Jodistrict

[mememe]

On 29.12.2021 at 7:24 PM, Jodistrict said:

Capitalism is threatening the survival of Madre Tierra.  Do you think it is a coincidence that a virus is now the problem?   Viruses  and living organisms have been coexisting in a dynamic equilibrium for billions of years. 

true - and a true yellow thinker would probably understand this.

the development to a sturdy yellow is a full integration of green, which includes understanding its complementary though. if a person is red or red/purple in basic behavior, the personality is not yellow even if mental execution seems to execute in a yellow way. maybe the way of systemic transformation of any system is one of the most discussed and most difficult and challenging processes in politics and history which historically does not forgive errors in the long term, therefore a lot of green thinkers are still impulsively red triggered which creates conflicts. although this is why green plays such an important roll in collective stage development, especially in functioning societies green has a massive importance.

wars like second world war though for example or even revolutionary wars throws humanity far back in their developmental stage in total in a lot of cases to beige and it’s not sure the system would really change after that phase if aggression keeps the society in lower stages - if criticizing capitalism you really need to understand what’s the alternative.

regarding viruses and such i think the development of better medicine and less animal farming is probably working out better in a functioning society.

Edited January 1, 2022 by mememe

[DocWatts]

The only way to transcend Capitalism short of a global catastrophe that forces humanity's hand (and also narrows the scope of responses we have available), is to outcompete Capitalism on its own terms.

Outcompeting Capitalism on its own terms would mean showing people the possibility that other systems can deliver 'the goods' of material prosperity (or at the very least a life of relative comfort and security), without the destructive and exploitative elements of Capitalism. This of course will have to take in to account that Capitalist mechanisms will work to destroy any other competing system, something that will have to be accounted for and guarded against.

Global capitalism basically needs the modern equivalent of a Gorbachev; someone who understands the rules of the system well enough to work within the system to change things. In this context, that would also entail understanding how political system capture works under Capitalism, and what a process to untangle that would be.

Edited January 3, 2022 by DocWatts

[happyhappy]

On 12/29/2021 at 11:34 PM, snowyowl said:

Environmental destruction and social inequality have been features of many historical eras long before capitalism was invented. Here in the UK we started chopping down our primal forests in the neolithic and of course there's been much inequality. So capitalism inherited these features from its parents, and it could argue that, as it developed over the centuries, began to see the benefits in having a more highly educated and healthy workforce, who were rich enough to afford luxury products mass produced.

But the dirty secret is that it required the serfdom to be offshored to developing countries to cut costs, also to not count the cost of environmental destruction in its bottom line.

The Achilles heel with capitalism has been its short sightedness and short termism. We're now living in an exciting time when capitalism is being tested. Its chickens are coming home to roost. Can it adapt to: 

Social justice.

Environmental sustainability. 

Demographics (capitalist countries don't have enough children to survive). 

So in short, I think a stage yellow capitalism would need to look different from both orange and green capitalisms. Probably by bringing in elements from other systems and compromising. Perhaps even change its name too if necessary. But hey, we need stage green economics to get tried and tested before we're ready for orange. 

_+1

54 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

The only way to transcend Capitalism short of a global catastrophe that forces humanity's hand (and also narrows the scope of responses we have available), is to outcompete Capitalism on its own terms.

Outcompeting Capitalism on its own terms would mean showing people the possibility that other systems can deliver 'the goods' of material prosperity (or at the very least a life of relative comfort and security), without the destructive and exploitative elements of Capitalism. This of course will have to take in to account that Capitalist mechanisms will work to destroy any other competing system, something that will have to be accounted for and guarded against.

Global capitalism basically needs the modern equivalent of a Gorbachev; someone who understands the rules of the system well enough to work within the system to change things. In this context, that would also entail understanding how political system capture works under Capitalism, and what a process to untangle that would be

+1

[mememe]

On 29.12.2021 at 7:04 PM, snowyowl said:

Environmental destruction and social inequality have been features of many historical eras long before capitalism was invented. Here in the UK we started chopping down our primal forests in the neolithic and of course there's been much inequality.

this is not an example of non capitalism or pre capitalism but an example of predatory or early capitalism you could also call it neolithic capitalism.

the problem here is that it’s a structural ego survival mechanism.

a semi capitalist green/yellow example for this would be a permaculture rain forest and city reforestation (there are people who actually do this stuff)

Edited January 6, 2022 by mememe