Owen Cook predictions - Can we trust this guy or not?

[Leo Gura]

Dude, many marriages and relationships are already in the death process.

Obviously I'm not going to lead a girl to break a good marriage. It was obvious that her marriage was mostly a formality and that her heart wasn't in it.

[Lyubov]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Girls are easily seduced because they are emotional creatures.

One of my wings talked to a girl for 20 mins in the casino lobby. He pulled her into the casino restroom. She said she could only give him a blowjob because she loves her boyfriend. Such things are not uncommon. Normies just don't know.

This is where Vegas and your Peter Pan PUA lifestyle / RSD stuff is misguiding you. Like a war veteran who thinks every place is dangerous or a drug addict who thinks no friend can be trusted. You have a skewed picture of women and attraction. You are seeing low integrity all around you in the city of sin and painting it as a key component and some common thing in attraction. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but check your bias and how you formed this view. You are attracting such women into your life because there is something fundamentally wrong with your approach if you are encountering this often. High integrity attracts high integrity. I’m not saying infidelity doesn’t happen but it’s not something to be so worried about or paint as incredibly common if you are conscious enough to avoid it and find the women that don’t partake. If you have a lot of experience and know how to screen you will rarely encounter it but some will become wounded and jaded by it cause it is like all unpleasant things in life. They do happen but not that often and you can learn to avoid hitting your hand with the hammer if you are keen and wise to. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Lyubov

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

This is where Vegas and your Peter Pan PUA lifestyle / RSD stuff is misguiding you. Like a war veteran who thinks every place is dangerous or a drug addict who thinks no friend can be trusted. You have a skewed picture of women and attraction. You are seeing low integrity all around you in the city of sun and painting it as a key component and some common thing. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but check your bias. You are attracting such women into your life because there is something fundamentally wrong with your approach if you are encountering this often.

Lol

I have no fear about women cheating on me. I spend zero time worrying about it. I just told you a fun story. I'm not some Red Pill or Incel guy who has a negative view of women. The women I've been with have been super loyal to me. Most women are loyal to a fault.

[Lyubov]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol

I have no fear about women cheating on me. I spend zero time worrying about it. I just told you a fun story.

Ok fair enough, just seemed like you were trying to paint things more grimly than they are about infidelity. Maybe I misread your point. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Lyubov

[Danioover9000]

   This thread is derailed into oblivion lol.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   This thread is derailed into oblivion lol.

Sorry, my bad.

[Evoke]

38 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   This thread is derailed into oblivion lol.

Yeah it no longer has it place in this subforum haha

Guess i got my original question answered in the first few pages though

Edited December 30, 2021 by Evoke

[zazen]

Back on topic. Here Owen mentions how pick up makes him feel more spiritually alive as relationships can take a lot of work, your basically relating with another ego/psychology and the complexity that comes with it. It's an interesting way of looking at it or could be a way to rationalise more casual relationships to not feel morally bad. Time stamped 2:30:00

 

 

Found this on a reddit and found it interesting:

 

RP teaches men they must "spin plates" / date non exclusively before/IF they marry.

RP also touts data which shows women with more sexual partners are more likely to divorce (however the data doesn't show whether it is the number of sexual partners itself which causes the high divorce rate or if it is the beliefs which influence a woman's choice number of sexual partners (ie. A religious woman may be a virgin till marriage but it could be her beliefs which restrict divorce).

So, presumably, for every female a man "spins plates" with, he is lessening her chance of having a long lasting marriage. He is also causing problems for another man involved in a failed marriage.

What is bad for women is bad for also men, because, while the genders are different, they are linked.

So while "spinning plates" is best for the individual man (I argue, his short term needs), it is bad in the long term for the community and society, and ultimately creates an unstable society which all must live in.

Thoughts?

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by zazen

[Leo Gura]

41 minutes ago, zazen said:

Found this on a reddit and found it interesting:

RP teaches men they must "spin plates" / date non exclusively before/IF they marry.

RP also touts data which shows women with more sexual partners are more likely to divorce (however the data doesn't show whether it is the number of sexual partners itself which causes the high divorce rate or if it is the beliefs which influence a woman's choice number of sexual partners (ie. A religious woman may be a virgin till marriage but it could be her beliefs which restrict divorce).

So, presumably, for every female a man "spins plates" with, he is lessening her chance of having a long lasting marriage. He is also causing problems for another man involved in a failed marriage.

This kind of statistical thinking is stupid.

To even be worrying about this kind of stuff sub-communicates that you a lame bitter insecure victim.

Shut up and go out and talk to girls. You can date them exclusively if you want. A successful marriage is not going to hinge on how many bodies you or she slept with, it's gonna hinge on your level of development, maturity, love, commitment, communication skills, and values alignment.

If you want a flourishing marriage absolutely nothing is stopping you from it but yourself. I submit that you don't actually want to do the developmental work necessary for a solid marriage, so instead you come up with narratives like above.

I don't mean you specifically, I mean Redpill type of guys in general.

For society it's actually valuable for people to date lots of different people so that they can find strong values alignment between each other. Knowing how to select a serious life partner is a skill that requires lots of experience. You're not born with it.

But I suggest that most guys don't even care about all that. They are just desperate to get laid and bitter when they can't. If you were able to get laid a lot, marriage would not be so appealing to you unless you were really developed and conscious, which these Redpillers and PUAs are not. Marriage requires making a lot of sacrifices which these traumatized man-children are not willing to make.

[Derek White]

48 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Shut up and go out and talk to girls. You can date them exclusively if you want. A successful marriage is not going to hinge on how many bodies you or she slept with, it's gonna hinge on your level of development, maturity, love, commitment, communication skills, and values alignment.

Then how come the relationship situation is getting worse? People are sleeping around more, but their marriages don't last, their relationships are shallower, and they are lonely and anxious than ever. People now don't even have a solid friend group.

This is your cultural bias, but you say it so confidently like it's objective truth. 

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Derek White said:

Then how come the relationship situation is getting worse? People are sleeping around more, but their marriages don't last, their relationships are shallower, and they are lonely and anxious than ever. People now don't even have a solid friend group.

This is your cultural bias, but you say it so confidently like it's objective truth. 

Because in stage Blue marriage was so strictly culturally enforced that you didn't even have a choice in most cases.

Now people have way more freedom because survival is easier, so they sleep around and treat relationships flippantly.

It's easy to stay married when you have a gun to your head.

The easiest way to stay married is to lock yourself into such a survival bind that you have no other choice. This was the case for much of human history. Things paradoxically become easy when you have no other choice.

[Karmadhi]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because in stage Blue marriage was so strictly culturally enforced that you didn't even have a choice in most cases.

Now people have way more freedom because survival is easier, so they sleep around and treat relationships flippantly.

It's easy to stay married when you have a gun to your head.

The easiest way to stay married is to lock yourself into such a survival bind that you have no other choice. This was the case for much of human history. Things paradoxically become easy when you have no other choice.

I have read a lot of red pill ideology and even though a lot of it is super toxic there is 1 point which i partially agree with them on.

Due as you said to survival being easier, females know can pick who they want to date. Females in general tend to want to date guys whose value in her eyes is higher than hers. What this creates is a situation where females want the top guys and do not want to settle for anything below them. From a individualistic point of view this is really good because if you raise your value and work on yourself you can get the whole "pie" as to say. You can get good results. However from a society point of view this creates a situation where like 25-30% of bottom guys do not get anything, it is quite capitalistic. The top 10-20 percent of guys get the whole pie, the bottom 30 percent gets close to nothing. Traditional marriage was an institution created to give everyone some chance of finding someone. Love communism you can call it. Now with that being slowly gone, you have this situation.

The issue with society level stuff is that you cannot use the same solutions as individualistic situations. You cannot tell all guys to work on themselves because value itself is relative to others. It is not absolute. So no matter how much they work they will still struggle compared to the top guys. A society where all men have closely to same "value" is impossible. That is what the Red pill preaches when they complain about dissolve of marriage.

What i wrote is my interpretation of what the red pill has said, it is not my own "invetion". I am just parroting them in a more nuanced and non-hateful way.

I would love your thoughts on this Leo.

 

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

 Females in general tend to want to date guys whose value in her eyes is higher than hers. What this creates is a situation where females want the top guys and do not want to settle for anything below them.

This is exactly true of guys as well.

Guys want to fuck the hottest girls. Don't act like guys aren't fighting hard to maximize personal value and get the top girls.

As a guy you will not be happy marrying a girl who you feel is below you.

Both men and women are manipulating each other to maximize value and get the best deal they feel they can get. They just go about it differently because value for a man and woman is different.

When a guy walks into a club, he's automatically scanning that room for the highest value girls. He does this in seconds without even thinking about it. Girls do this too, just differently.

We all dream of finding a mate who is way above us in value. It's the equivalent of dreaming of winning the lottery. Of course! Who doesn't want free value? If the hottest girl in the world came up to you and started making out with you, this would be every Redpiller's and Incel's dream come true. So they are full of shit blaming women for wanting to maximize value. Of course women want to maximize value! They're not stupid. The real problem you have is that their maximization of value excludes you.

[Roy]

24 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

However from a society point of view this creates a situation where like 25-30% of bottom guys do not get anything, it is quite capitalistic. The top 10-20 percent of guys get the whole pie, the bottom 30 percent gets close to nothing.

This is the kind of warped apocalyptic red pill lie that comes from spending too much time online. It is simply not the case.

[hoodrow trillson]

Just curious, can you guys define what "value" is?  Break it down for the lurkers.  I always see this word thrown everywhere online and it's usually very vague in definition.

[Karmadhi]

@Leo Gura They say females are hypergamous because they usually lock 1 guy and stick with him compared to the guy just fucking many women and not seriously committing to just 1. Biologically females tend to be more picky because of this system where if their pick is bad she and the child are fucked versus the guy who can fuck 1 "bad" pick out of 15 and it is still okay for him.

Hence females tend to be naturally more picky due to simple biology and evolution.

I personally think this makes sense tbh, you have said yourself that females and males have totally different dynamics.

Now whether red pill abuses this for their own agenda is another issue totally, i cannot say about that much.

[Leo Gura]

@hoodrow trillson Value is whatever you feel helps you survive as a finite self.

If you feel that getting your dick sucked by a donkey helps your survival, then that's value for you.

[zazen]

Thanks for the input Leo. For women sex is expensive as women give birth handicapping themselves for a few years, every other animal is born and on its feet unlike humans. This must've evolved for women to be wary of who she spreads her legs too, as it risks her own survival. Sleeping the way us men do and us projecting our own biological/psychological make up on to woman is a bias. Agreed that in the past it was too repressive but what we have now just seems like the other extreme. Then came in birth control, social media and dating apps and women could toss these worries to the side, but we'v evolved over thousands of years and only had this lifestyle of birth control for 60 years, social media for 10 or so years. To add to this, men have a innate jealous and mate guarding instinct due to paternity certainty, so the more men women have slept with the less likely men feel like taking them seriously as they feel aversion to their past and past trauma. For women their attraction is increased knowing a guy has had other women before, social proof. 

 

Whats good is that people get to mix with each other and find the correct partner in terms of values, likes dislikes, chemistry etc. Wouldn't the middle way be to mingle but without sex as to not cause so much bonding/trauma/heartbreak. A bit like before birth control, that period where arranged marriage wasn't practiced anymore but neither was there complete debauchary. People courted each other to find the one, then committed and had sex. Now people have sex while learning about each other, but when sex gets involved and love goggles this clouds our judgment of each other as our bodies are flooded with bonding chemicals so we pair up with people who maybe aren't even the best for us. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by zazen

[Danioover9000]

@hoodrow trillson

2 hours ago, hoodrow trillson said:

Just curious, can you guys define what "value" is?  Break it down for the lurkers.  I always see this word thrown everywhere online and it's usually very vague in definition.

   By lurkers you mean Incels, or the lone types?

   IMO, value is what you personally find valuable. A value is also ambiguous, like ideals and noble truths. For example, competency, understanding, consciousness, creativity, independence, uniqueness, excellence, health, beauty, and enlightenment, and many more words that point to ideals, for me mean differently than what each of those ten words mean to you, even what your family or culture defines those words can be different to how you personally define those words for you. Could also be similar to what society tells you about values too.

[Joel3102]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQchHcONDaM

Edited December 31, 2021 by Joel3102