Cenk says mainstream media is a cult

[Hardkill]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Gerrymandering, the whole electoral college system, the Senate, and the Supreme Court all need serious reforms. Lobbying makes these things impossible to reform.

Health care industry spent $300+ million in lobbying just this last year to stop medicare for all and cheaper drugs.

Joe Machin killed Biden's whole bill and he is corrupt with lobbying money.

But I thought that it was mostly the conservatives and Republicans throughout the entire country who are getting in the way of eliminating the electoral college, gerrymandering, and voter suppression even if they weren’t lobbied by any corporations. Don’t we definitely need at least half of all Republicans in the entire country to agree with every Democrat and left leaning Independent throughout the whole country to pass a major constitutional amendment that would permanently abolish the electoral college?

I kinda wish Biden and every single Democrat in the Senate all decided to vote for eliminating the filibuster in order to get voting rights passed, Supreme Court reform, and much much more. However if they eliminate the filibuster completely then wouldn’t that put the entire country at great risk of going through radical reversals of major legislation? Mitch McConnell has already warned Democrats that if they do it then one day when the Republicans regain control of the whole government trifecta again then they will repeal all kinds of liberal legislation that had been passed throughout all of US history including all civil and voting rights acts, all of the federal abortion rights acts, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, etc. What do you think about that?

Yeah...I am so depressed that Manchin ruined the whole Build Back Better bill. If  Biden doesn’t get any more passed then couldn’t the Democrats end up in great jeopardy? 

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Hardkill

[Joel3102]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

, the whole electoral college system, the Senate, and the Supreme Court all need serious reforms. Lobbying makes these things impossible to reform.

Lobbying isn’t the reason these institutions haven’t been changed. That’d require a constitutional amendment which would be extremely difficult to pass (2/3 both houses) and ratification but (3/4 of the state legislatures). What makes it impossible if there’s a massive conservative voter base that has no incentive to support reforms that would reduce Republicans power 

[Leo Gura]

If lobbying didn't significantly distort government, it wouldn't be a thing. Think about it.

People like to say that lobbying isn't significant, yet billions are spent on it every year. So obviously it must be significant or no fool would be throwing away billions for nothing. The ROI on lobbying is probably 10x-100x.

[Hardkill]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

If lobbying didn't significantly distort government, it wouldn't be a thing. Think about it.

People like to say that lobbying isn't significant, yet billions are spent on it every year. So obviously it must be significant or no fool would be paying billions.

So are you saying that without lobbying then the Democratic and liberal independents would be able to easily get enough Republicans in the country to to vote for passing something like a constitutional amendment that would abolish the electoral college or a law that would allow reform or expansion of the Supreme Court?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Hardkill said:

So are you saying that without lobbying then the Democratic and liberal independents would be able to easily get enough Republicans in the country to to vote for passing something like a constitutional amendment that would abolish the electoral college or a law that would allow reform or expansion of the Supreme Court?

Obviously it's not that easy.

But lobbying money is retarding all progress.

[Hardkill]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Obviously it's not that easy.

But lobbying money is retarding all progress.

Hmm, I see.

So, if corporate lobbying contributes to getting in the way of all progress, then how were Democrats ever able to pass any liberal legislation such as raising the taxes on the wealthy and other laws that would benefit the middle class during Clinton's first presidential term in the 90s or pass both the ACA and Dodd Frank act during Obama's first term?

[Leo Gura]

54 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Hmm, I see.

So, if corporate lobbying contributes to getting in the way of all progress, then how were Democrats ever able to pass any liberal legislation such as raising the taxes on the wealthy and other laws that would benefit the middle class during Clinton's first presidential term in the 90s or pass both the ACA and Dodd Frank act during Obama's first term?

Democrats are also corrupted by lobbying money. The Dem admins have been pretty weak amd neoliberal for the last 30 years.

Clinton and Obama were both neolibs.

Joe Manchin is a fucking Dem who acts like a Repub thanks to the lobby money. Single-handedly stopped a $2 trillion deal. Stuff like this happens all the time.

[Hardkill]

42 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Democrats are also corrupted by lobbying money. The Dem admins have been pretty weak amd neoliberal for the last 30 years.

Clinton and Obama were both neolibs.

Joe Manchin is a fucking Dem who acts like a Repub thanks to the lobby money. Single-handedly stopped a $2 trillion deal. Stuff like this happens all the time.

Yeah, from what I understand, Dem became neoliberal and weaker when the New Democrats (Clintonian Democrats) first emerged during the late 1980s in order to effectively counter Reaganism. Though wasn't Jimmy Carter in the late 1970s pretty weak?

Also, I still don't get why corporate lobbyists weren't able to stop liberal legislation that did create more progress for our society  such as the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993, the 1993 Clinton tax increase, Dodd-Frank Act which passed in 2010, or the ACA which also passed in 2010?

Edited December 25, 2021 by Hardkill

[Opo]

26 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

No, I know that every conservative and moderate Democrat has been corrupted by lobbying money since about the early 1980s. However, I still don't get why corporate lobbyists weren't able to stop liberal legislation such as the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993, the 1993 Clinton tax increase, Dodd-Frank Act which passed in 2010, or the ACA which also passed in 2010?

I doubt anyone's argument is that the money completely controls the laws. 

It's just that you can tip the scale a bit in your favor. 

[Danioover9000]

@Roy

22 hours ago, Roy said:

I wonder if Cenk is aware of the irony that TYT is also one of the most biased and delusion filled outlets you could consume in this day and age?

They are a pretty prime example of toxic Green.

- Cenk has openly denied the Armenian holocaust, as well as apologized for Islamist Terrorism.

- Hasan has become a fulltime grifter for annoying online activist lefties.

- Ana well, you can just see the righteousness and anger spewing out of her face. The only thing holding it back from exploding is the 4 pounds of makeup she wears every day.

But yea it isn't even worth talking about. I don't even know why I am to be honest.

   For me, I've disliked their presentation style, but other than that you've put into words my dislike of them as ideologues.

[Joel3102]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Joe Manchin is a fucking Dem who acts like a Repub thanks to the lobby money.

It's not because of the lobby money lol. He's a Senator for West Virginia, one of the most conservative states in the country. If he voted like a normal Dem he'd just be voted out and replaced with a Republican. He doesn't want to lose his seat

[Hardkill]

47 minutes ago, Opo said:

I doubt anyone's argument is that the money completely controls the laws. 

It's just that you can tip the scale a bit in your favor. 

Yeah, that's what I was kinda thinking. I hope that's true.

 

1 minute ago, Joel3102 said:

It's not because of the lobby money lol. He's a Senator for West Virginia, one of the most conservative states in the country. If he voted like a normal Dem he'd just be voted out and replaced with a Republican. He doesn't want to lose his seat

Yeah, I was thinking that too.

[GroovyGuru]

4 minutes ago, Joel3102 said:

It's not because of the lobby money lol. He's a Senator for West Virginia, one of the most conservative states in the country. If he voted like a normal Dem he'd just be voted out and replaced with a Republican. He doesn't want to lose his seat

But most of the proposals in BBB are supremely popular among West Virgians arn't they? I believe there are polls that show that most of his WV constituents would actually greatly favor and benefit from BBB. Regardless he's among the most corrupt legislators in congress and the dems and progressives have not done nearly a good enough job in blatantly calling him out on his corruption and how his obstructionist ways are preventing people of West Virginia from living better lives

[Lyubov]

The senate is kinda crazy and it’s difficult to reform that due to the constitution. Makes no sense why Cali has 2 senators while some middle America red state with a tiny fraction of the population gets the same number. Issues like that will be generational.

[Leo Gura]

57 minutes ago, Joel3102 said:

It's not because of the lobby money lol. He's a Senator for West Virginia, one of the most conservative states in the country. If he voted like a normal Dem he'd just be voted out and replaced with a Republican. He doesn't want to lose his seat

The bill was popular among his voters.

It's his corpo donors who wanted it killed.

The dude has investments in coal companies.

[Hardkill]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The bill was popular among his voters.

It's his corpo donors who wanted it killed.

The dude has investments in coal companies.

Yeah, but you said that voters don’t vote logically on policies regardless of what the polls say about how popular certain ones are. They vote base on how electable something or someone is based on how emotionally compelled they are about a certain politician or a certain policy. So, is it possible that while the West Virginian voters who voted for Manchin may have liked all of the provisions within the Build Back Better bill from a logical standpoint, they were more afraid of the bill granting more government takeover of some kind if it had passed through both Congress and Biden?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Hardkill said:

Yeah, but you said that voters don’t vote logically on policies regardless of what the polls say about how popular certain ones are. They vote base on how electable something or someone is based on how emotionally compelled they are about a certain politician or a certain policy. So, is it possible that while the West Virginian voters who voted for Manchin may have liked all of the provisions within the Build Back Better bill from a logical standpoint, they were more afraid of the bill granting more government takeover of some kind if it had passed through both Congress and Biden?

A lot of money in politics goes into funding the culture wars which keep voters distracted from the serious policy issues.