My Take On Pick-up...

[Epiphany_Inspired]

There appears to be a continuous stream of pick up posts here, mostly asking, should they do it. So, Here's my take, once and for all:

Pickup is inherently predatory in nature. Regardless which gender is initiating, it's not a high consciousness activity... that said, each person must find their own path for evolution, and it *Apparently* helps some people gain confidence when other methods aren't working for them... decide for yourself, with your heart ( not your mind or other body parts... lol) what is best for you! Love your self regardless of pickup, love yourself first!

[Lynnel]

7 hours ago, Epiphany_Inspired said:

There appears to be a continuous stream of pick up posts here, mostly asking, should they do it. So, Here's my take, once and for all:

Pickup is inherently predatory in nature. Regardless which gender is initiating, it's not a high consciousness activity... that said, each person must find their own path for evolution, and it *Apparently* helps some people gain confidence when other methods aren't working for them... decide for yourself, with your heart ( not your mind or other body parts... lol) what is best for you! Love your self regardless of pickup, love yourself first!

It seems predatory to you simply because the people who ask this question are heavily neurotic.

I don't know what you all mean by pickup but it comes down to " learning how to become be attractive by bettering yourself" .

It actually does really help a lot in your growth if you do it correctly. And not only for condifence but for you whole life overall.

Thinking about how high or low on the level of consciousness something is, is  very judgmental and ineffective : is eating my oatmeal in the morning low or high ? Interacting with other human beings can be a low/high consciousness activity on a case per case basis.

Loving yourself doesn't work like that. And no matter how much you love yourself that's not gonna make you attractive.

[Guest Annetta]

Unfortunately, the goodness of love has been marketed in the same way most things are in this world.  Practicing pick-up is indeed a disingenuous and predatory thing to do.  Of course the people who partake in it are going to try to defend themselves, but the reality is that a lot of women get hurt by that sort of thing.

If y'all con men worked on pleasing women rather than manipulating them with psychological abuse - and yes, it is abuse - we are human beings, not  games you can play little Pavlov's experiments on - you would get better results.  Men view love as respect, from what I have read.  Most good women will not respect that sort of nonsense.  

@Lynnel "It seems predatory to you simply because the people who ask this question are heavily neurotic."

Wow.  No.  Neurosis and engaging in predatory behaviour are two separate things.  Don't throw mental illness into the mix - by the way, mentally ill and battered women often fall for those sorts of illusions.

Let's rephrase this:

"Preying on women is okay, and the ones who take issue with this are crazy for having a problem with my behaviour."

[Lynnel]

1 hour ago, Babybat said:

Practicing pick-up is indeed a disingenuous and predatory thing to do.

You seem not to understand what pick - up is.

Please tell me how  " making yourself more attractive by bettering yourself " a disingenuous and predatory to do ?

 

1 hour ago, Babybat said:

@Lynnel "It seems predatory to you simply because the people who ask this question are heavily neurotic."
Wow.  No.  Neurosis and engaging in predatory behaviour are two separate things.  Don't throw mental illness into the mix - by the way, mentally ill and battered women often fall for those sorts of illusions.

Let's rephrase this:

"Preying on women is okay, and the ones who take issue with this are crazy for having a problem with my behaviour."

No they are not : if you engage in predatory behaviour you are heavily fucked up. That's it. But no one is briging up this whole preying and predatory thing into the mix. It has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

I advise you to review your perspective of men because by the way you speak they are seen with a LOT of aggression and hatred. And like manipulating with psychological abuse lol...I can't even imagine how bad you believe the world is.

Pickup looks most like people who are totaly lost and feel sad,alone and rejected and try to learn decent social skills to find a nice girl. Those are generaly sweet and broken people. But sometimes some people introduced to pick-up go crazy and  are neurotic and behave in ways that are not acceptable that can be indeed called manipulative or be dangerous for the women involved but that's because of them and not of the pick-up stuff.

 

Edited January 3, 2017 by Lynnel

[Guest Annetta]

@Lynnel Pick up artistry is predatory behaviour.  My views about men have nothing to do with that fact.  I like men, and I think they're just fine.  I don't like pick up artistry.  It is manipulative.  Do what you want, but if you use those tactics on a woman you don't deserve her respect.  At all.

"It seems predatory to you simply because the people who ask this question are heavily neurotic."

"Pickup looks most like people who are totaly lost and feel sad,alone and rejected and try to learn decent social skills to find a nice girl. Those are generaly sweet and broken people."

That's the whole point.  You see?

Edited January 3, 2017 by Babybat

[Robert66]

I have to agree with Babybat, pick up is not about respecting the other person, it's about gaming and viewing the pickee as a prize, toy or prey.  A hook up, between 2 people honestly connecting with each other, and not the personae someone is using to achieve the prize, is something that respects both involved.  It may be semantics, but means to the ends and intent are the issue  

[electroBeam]

22 hours ago, Babybat said:

Unfortunately, the goodness of love has been marketed in the same way most things are in this world.  Practicing pick-up is indeed a disingenuous and predatory thing to do. 

I have never seen a video made by TrippAdvice, Alpha A, or <german dude forgot the name of> EVER make a video that teaches people to be disingenuous and predatory. 

But even the abusive forms of pickup -> mystery are very useful. I've been to clubs where women will literally shout 'FUCK OFF' without you even talking to her or getting in her group. There are women out there who are snobby or very judgmental, and dealing with those situations can be difficult. Negs, for example, are perfect for dealing with these situations, and when you learn how to use them, you can grow yourself a lot. Negs work for me every time, and its not psychological abuse to use them. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by electroBeam

[DJ]

Pickup is what eventually got me into personal development. I got divorced in my 40's so whats a man to do? Google "how to pick up women" and bingo! tons of pickup information. I read and watched videos and at first thought that it was all a BS marketing scam until I went out in the real world and tried it and guess what? It works! It works on women just like dragging string on the floor in front of a cat, it cant not attack it (well, 95% of the time). Why is it that women  are attracted to knuckle dragging alpha male types? Why does that cat attack that string?  I sure as hell dont know! 

I gave up on pickup after visiting a forum and read how a lot of the men viewed women. It literally made me sick to my stomach. Somewhere along the way in pickup I came across the name Tony Robbins and then moved on to his work and thus, got me on my current path.

In hindsight, am I glad I went there? You bet! I believe that knowledge is invaluable. Its like a power tool, say a chainsaw. A chainsaw is a great tool if its used wisely. It can cut up dead trees and make beautiful sculptures but it can also destroy a whole forest. So to me, pickup is a tool. Its not the tools fault that it is able to destroy a forest, rather its the person with the tool. 

Pickup can be used with girlfriends as well. Its not all about one night stands. Knowing how to seduce, read body language, tease and have her eating out of your hand makes for a very eventful evening with someone that you care about too. 

[SFRL]

45 minutes ago, DJ said:

Pickup is what eventually got me into personal development. I got divorced in my 40's so whats a man to do? Google "how to pick up women" and bingo! tons of pickup information. I read and watched videos and at first thought that it was all a BS marketing scam until I went out in the real world and tried it and guess what? It works! It works on women just like dragging string on the floor in front of a cat, it cant not attack it (well, 95% of the time). Why is it that women  are attracted to knuckle dragging alpha male types? Why does that cat attack that string?  I sure as hell dont know! 

I gave up on pickup after visiting a forum and read how a lot of the men viewed women. It literally made me sick to my stomach. Somewhere along the way in pickup I came across the name Tony Robbins and then moved on to his work and thus, got me on my current path.

In hindsight, am I glad I went there? You bet! I believe that knowledge is invaluable. Its like a power tool, say a chainsaw. A chainsaw is a great tool if its used wisely. It can cut up dead trees and make beautiful sculptures but it can also destroy a whole forest. So to me, pickup is a tool. Its not the tools fault that it is able to destroy a forest, rather its the person with the tool. 

Pickup can be used with girlfriends as well. Its not all about one night stands. Knowing how to seduce, read body language, tease and have her eating out of your hand makes for a very eventful evening with someone that you care about too. 

That's how I see it as well. The tool analogy is spot on. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by STC

[Richard Alpert]

i think there are people who teach self confidence and man/women chemistry (david deita etc). And then there is the pick-up people.

Learn from the first group. most people who do pickup cant have authentic long term relationships. You probably wont start doing pickup anyways unless you come from a place of pain. Then you go out there, maybe have some success but the pain wont go away.

[Wind]

Those who think pick-up is "predatory", read this post: http://www.masculinedevelopment.com/is-learning-game-shallow-a-players-perspective/

[Guest Annetta]

So when you land a chick using methods that create somewhat of a different persona, how long can you guys keep up the charade before your true selves shine through?  I'm not in any way shape or form saying that your true selves are bad.  I'm just curious, because pick up artistry generally doesn't teach you the more important aspects of how to treat a female.  Do you guys also research the other aspects of maintaining a relationship or just the initial landing that dream girl, because that will only get you so far.

What has pick up taught you about caring for a woman's heart?
What has pick up taught you about dealing with boundaries?  Emergency situations?  
The fear-shame dynamic?  Would you be able to tell your chosen mate that you used pick-up?

Edited January 4, 2017 by Babybat

[Wind]

@Babybat It's not about "faking behavior" in order to manipulate women into having sex with them - it's an old outdated mainstream notion. And yes, there are "pick up teachers" and "pick up practitioners" who perform from this outdated place.

That's what Leo talked about in his rant video.  There is nothing wrong with approaching a girl, speaking with her, flirting with her and having sex with her. They key is in HOW and WHY you do it.

The new wave of "seduction" is totally different. It's focused on finding ways to become more attractive as a man, so that you can then attract women as a by product of that. It focuses on how to become attractive man based not on trick, tactics, games or techniques, but on self-development, inner change. It's goal is to create powerful connection with women instead of trying to impress them.

What pick up has taught me?

Exactly what you're promoting. You just can't see it, because "pick up" as negative connotation to you. To me a bit as well, because it's the closest connection to the first notion. Let's call it, "learning attraction/dating" then. So what did I learned from learning attraction/dating?

It taught me how to express myself vulnerably without fear and how to connect with women, emotionally, intimately and sexually.
It taught me to be more invested in my perception of myself than other's perception of myself.
It helped me to start looking at each attractive women, not as the goddess that I could never get into a relationship with, but as a girl who just wants to be loved, and the girl I could come and talk with and see if we resonate. If yes, then create beautiful experience or even meaningful relationship, if no, then feel comfortable with it.

And most importantly that my attraction to women and the quality of my relationships are proportional to 1) authentic and enriching lifestyle, 2) overcoming my anxiety around socializing, intimacy and sexuality and 3) expression of my emotions and communicating fluently.

And if you're a guy and you're lacking in any of these pillars, by improving them, you're directly improving your intimate relationships and romantic life. The healthy way you do "pick up" is different from the other unhealthy way you can do "pick up".

In this period of our cultural development, we're living in the time when these both connotations are mixed together. And all I see people focusing on the old connotation while totally ignoring the new one. There are many teachers who teach the healthy way of meeting women. Just to name few: Mark Manson (has a great book called: Models: Attract Women Through honesty) or The Natural Lifestyles or even RSD.
 

To add to your other questions:

Quote

What has pick up taught you about dealing with boundaries?  Emergency situations?  
The fear-shame dynamic?  Would you be able to tell your chosen mate that you used pick-up?

I don't really get the first question. In terms of the second one. Of course. Right now I'm in my first open relationship with a super cool girl who I love and I'm totally open with her about other girls I'm dating and the "game", and she's open as well. I even watch videos with her and we discuss this topic in an open-minded way. And she finds it very interesting. I'm not ashamed of sharing the fact that I go and talk with girls, because I my intentions and motivations are pure.
 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Wind

[Emerald]

I would say that it's a big problem with many men who get into pick-up. If you read a lot of comments by PUA's it has a very misogynistic sort of vibe. That's because the men who tend to get way into the ideology come from a place of lack and have come to see women as holders of their personal value. Society teaches men in many subtle and overt ways that their worth comes from whether or not women are attracted to them. And when a woman rejects them, they don't often realize that women are choosy (they assume women work like men generally do and have similar dating standards), and that a rejection doesn't mean anything about their worth. So, these types of guys, feel powerless in relation to women. And even when they become successful with women through PUA, there is still a feeling of proving their worth and maybe even feelings of revenge. Like "Haha! I conquered you now!" But these are the men that get way into the ideology, who are the most wounded of men.

However, some of the techniques and mindsets are helpful. So, I think it's important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. What I find is that most men that I know personally who have studied into pick-up a little bit, do so because they want to know how to approach women and be successful. They're normally kind of nerdy/shy/nice guys who want to find some techniques. Trickery is not their plan. Nor is it necessarily to have tons of partners. They just want some form of success. 

Approaching is uncomfortable and there is no clear, socially acceptable mating ritual that is widely adopted due to living in the post-modern era. You either approach and risk looking like a creeper and being rejected or you don't approach and stay lonely. It can be an emotional experience, I'm sure. So, having a guide-map is helpful. 

A few years prior to meeting me, my husband actually read a few books on pick-up artistry as he always had approach anxiety and didn't really know what women were generally attracted to. The things that men are attracted to are posted everywhere, but women's desires much less so. So, he always felt that he was riding blind when it came to dating. But because he studied into pick-up a little bit and understood things about what women generally like, he was amazing on our first date. Just head and shoulders above other guys. Not because he was being disingenuous... in fact I think that he told me that night that he studied pick up artistry. He was just using the techniques to make himself better at approaching, dating, and being attractive. 

[Epiphany_Inspired]

Thanks everybody! I totally didn't mean to start a battle.... if that's what happened... hard to tell with this one, if it's just different opinions, or if anyone's actually upset.... anyway.... the one thing I'd like to add is about the "Negs" mentioned above @electroBeam. Regardless if you find negs effective, or not.... It is much better for your own integrity, the woman's self-love, and the evolution of humanity/the universe as a whole if instead of negs, you give authentic expressions instead! Thanks, hope this helps...

Edited January 7, 2017 by Epiphany_Inspired
said "and" twice in a row...lol

[Guest Annetta]

Naw, I'm cool.  Just a bit of a chronic complainer.

[SFRL]

"Pickup" generally is a form of behaviour that is meant to seduce women. 

The reason why a guy seduces a woman can vary greatly. A guy that starts dating a girl from his church to marry her and then have sex with her after marriage will still do "pickup" in one shape or form. So does a guy who sleeps with a different girl every week. "Pickup" is all about learning the Laws of Attraction which are generally the same accross the board. 

Confidence and a sense of humor are generally very attractive traits in men to all women. And are necesairy to be successful for the guy looking to marry his highschool sweetheart and the guy looking for one-night stands. 

While on the outside pickup can look very different from one case to the next the techniques are very much the same. The intend is up to the person doing the pickup but that's not pickup in itself. 

 

Edited January 21, 2017 by STC

[DJ]

17 hours ago, STC said:

While on the outside pickup can look very different from one case to the next the techniques are very much the same. The intend is up to the person doing the pickup but that's not pickup in itself. 

Well said! I believe that pickup is a necessary stage of development in a mans evolution. I'd say comparable to stage orange in spiral dynamics. Once a man can bring that experience and confidence to the next level, stage green where its done out of love and respect.....whoa! that's when the magic happens!