Kevin Samuels

[something_else]

20 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

The solution to the toxic elements of redpill is absorb what is useful and true and disregard the rest. I've read that subreddit, they have not integrated the truth of rp

You can get the useful and true parts of redpill from a million other sources without the toxic crap

There's no reason to subject yourself to it unless you get some kind of pleasure out of reading that stuff

[Raptorsin7]

3 hours ago, something_else said:

You can get the useful and true parts of redpill from a million other sources without the toxic crap

There's no reason to subject yourself to it unless you get some kind of pleasure out of reading that stuff

Where can I find the truth in rp without any toxicity?

Can you give me examples?

[something_else]

6 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Where can I find the truth in rp without any toxicity?

Can you give me examples?

Redpill claims to have uncovered the true nature of women

Any other healthy sources of dating advice for men, for example this forum, RSD, some healthier pickup type of guys, will give you a more holistic, truthful and less toxic view of women (and how to date/attract them) without all the crap that redpill also comes with

[Consept]

I think Kevin Samuels does raise issues that are important and hes not wrong about a lot of things, there is some delusion with certain women, gynocentricism and issues with the black community. Also it is fair to bring up these issues as they are relevant but arent really talked about it. However if you look into it more he says hes doing it for women but the reality is the audience is mostly male and if i were to take a stab at it i would say theyre not the top 1% high value males he often references. This then leads to delusion in the men that consume his content where they believe all their problems with dating are down to women being delusional and that they are in fact high value men (ill post an example of this below). 

Whats interesting with KS is that he actually started by doing what he does to women, to men. The only problem was it didnt get much traction and didnt lead to many views, then a video he did criticising a woman went viral and basically led to the success hes seeing now. In May 20 he had i think only a few thousand subs, he now has 1.29 million. Hes not a stupid guy, he recognised that if he continues with this formula, thats what will bring in the views and the money, he does a hell of a lot of content, nightly streams all about the same topic. So it should be mentioned that he at least thinks theres a need to give men similar treatment but it doesnt bring in the money, which also speaks to society in that, whats seen to be women bashing is hugely more popular than men bashing (could also just be because a lot more men are on youtube than women). Hes also obviously modelled himself on people like Simon Cowell and Gordon Ramsey and seen how popular they become, so I wouldnt necessarily say he has bad intentions, but his whole persona is a very calculated thing. 

Truth has to be holistic and i think he is articulating one side of it but to see the full thing you have to look at the whole the picture and i dont think his setup would allow him to do so, but thats why its important to have many sources of information. 

Video i mentioned - 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAt8Nhf093s&t=8s

 

 

 

[Raptorsin7]

@Consept Yeah I never said that Kevin Samuels has the whole truth about issues facing black America. 

My point is that he is addressing issues that are completely ignored by almost everyone who discusses race related issues in the United States, and thus it contributes to polarization because people have an intuitive sense that what's being told to them is not fully true and they are in some sense being deceived.

Look at how quick people in the comments are to obfuscate, deflect, engage in ad hominems etc rather than engage with the substance of what he's addressing.

 

[Consept]

@Raptorsin7

I get you, i wasnt necessarily talking about you, it's just something I've noticed from people that follow him. 

He's obviously very divisive, could be the delivery I don't know, but then if he didn't deliver his message in such a way he wouldn't be listened to, but this means people are going to almost deify him on one side and then absolutely hate him on the other. 

I think what would be good and which I'm sure he won't do, is if he had a good faith argument with say a well respected feminist or someone who could challenge him on his points, he always seems to talk to the same type of women and just batter them down. 

[Etherial Cat]

@Raptorsin7

On 29/12/2021 at 2:45 AM, Raptorsin7 said:

I'd be happy to go into more detail.

But there is nothing egregious about that advice. A woman who is so broken she only chooses abusers is not fit to raise a child. I would have more confidence in the man raising that child than her, but I can't say for certain unless I see the clip.

And single mothers are not attractive to men pretty much across the board, so it's true that she would have a better chance of getting what she wants if she gave custody to the father 

You're not black and you're not a woman as far as I know. So what's this fixation about? How is that you are spending your time writings threads and numerous posts on this subject?

Feeling entitled to write two posts about how black women are the root of evil in the black community doesn't make you a light bringer, but a Dunning-Kruger falling into both the pitfall of racism and misogynie. 

What I see is that black women have only your contempt and you're currently spending your time claiming all we need is more control and dehumanization. Escaping the lovelessness of people like you and Kevin Samuels is the main reason why black women in the US are forced to hustle their way from vulnerable position to safety. 

You should be embarrassed for writing such horrors and dismissing as biased all the people who told you your reasoning was problematic. You're currently part of the problem, not the solution.

The good thing is: you can help everyone including yourself by trying to solve your relationship with femininity and check out for some potential racism based self-hatred.

Misogynoire is to be found both at this intersection, so you've got a perfect spot to work on.

[Raptorsin7]

@Etherial Cat Nice attempt to shame me into changing my view rather engaging with the substance of what I'm writing. 

You would also be wise to learn what it means to be honest.

I don't hate black people or black woman in general. I hate the devils in the community that allow and perpetuate nonsense that serves no one.

[Etherial Cat]

Just now, Raptorsin7 said:

@Etherial Cat Nice attempt to shame me into changing my view rather engaging with the substance of what I'm writing. 

You would also be wise to learn what it means to be honest.

4 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I don't hate black people or black woman in general. I hate the devils in the community that allow and perpetuate nonsense that serves no one.

You're attracted to Kevin Samuels's content because your resonate with him on the shadow level. That's why you are getting so hooked.

[Raptorsin7]

@Etherial Cat I'm also attracted to Kevin Samuels because he exposed one of the biggest sources of dysfunction in the black community. 

Go learn what it means to be honest and then maybe we can have an actual dialogue.

[Etherial Cat]

Just now, Raptorsin7 said:

@Etherial Cat I'm also attracted to Kevin Samuels because he exposed one of the biggest sources of dysfunction in the black community. 

Go learn what it means to be honest and then maybe we can have an actual dialogue.

I am sorry- would you be kind enough to let me know why you think I am being dishonest?

[Raptorsin7]

8 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

I am sorry- would you be kind enough to let me know why you think I am being dishonest?

You aren't engaging with my points and you are completely blind to the points and issues Kevin Samuel's is addressing in the community.

You don't know what it means to be honest so it doesn't make any sense to you.

Live from conscious presence and then you will start to see the truth. 

[Raptorsin7]

@Consept Do you think Kevin Samuels is rooted solely in racism and misogyny? 

I do not deny he has a shadow,  and I take what he says with a grain of salt. But people here are completely missing a key part of his message 

[zazen]

So making observations on human nature, and particularly on a certain culture / community is now considered racist. What a way to shut down discussion. Ironically Kevin Samuels has a acronym he uses called SIGN. Shame, insults, guilt and the need to be right which people revert to if their arguments don't hold up, next would be ad hominem. We shouldn't conflate making a judgment on certain behaviours (ie behaviours of men or women) and being judgmental. Judgmental is coming from a place of ego to put the 'other' down, to judge/discern is coming from a place of what could be good for you or us / our community if you acted differently.

 

We'r all the same on a biological level, thats our hardwiring. On a psychological / social level the culture/community we're from brings out certain sides of our own nature, thats our softwiring. If we see certain behaviours or actions and consequences in one country,society, culture or community and with negative results thats equally possible in another country, society, community. So we observe, learn and avoid the bad, and emulate the good. Not good or bad from a moralistic point of view but from a results point of view ie we brings about a stable society with less suffering and more love. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by zazen

[Etherial Cat]

Just now, Raptorsin7 said:

You aren't engaging with my points and you are completely blind to the points and issues Kevin Samuel's is addressing in the community.

You don't know what it means to be honest so it doesn't make any sense to you.

Live from conscious presence and then you will start to see the truth. 

I am not engaging with your points on the content level, as I simply don't have time to invest to do so.

Bringing up a perspective doesn't compel others to refute your points, nor does it put the burden of proof on us.

 

[Raptorsin7]

2 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

I am not engaging with your points on the content level, as I simply don't have time to invest to do so.

Bringing up a perspective doesn't compel others to refute your points, nor does it put the burden of proof on us.

No, but it's just a poor way to interact and develop a conversation. You basically tried to shame me into changing my view, without taking the time to actually engage with the points being made.

But there's no need to continue the discussion. Your point is taken.

[Raptorsin7]

2 hours ago, zazen said:

We'r all the same on a biological level, thats our hardwiring. On a psychological / social level the culture/community we're from brings out certain sides of our own nature, thats our softwiring. If we see certain behaviours or actions and consequences in one country,society, culture or community and with negative results thats equally possible in another country, society, community. So we observe, learn and avoid the bad, and emulate the good. Not good or bad from a moralistic point of view but from a results point of view ie we brings about a stable society with less suffering and more love. 

Exactly, thank you. 

2+2=4. That is true, irrespective of race, gender, etc. Imagine coming in and saying I can't comment on whether 2+2=4 because I am not part of x identity group.

2 hours ago, zazen said:

So making observations on human nature, and particularly on a certain culture / community is now considered racist.

That's how you keep the self deception going. Rather than actually engage and assimilate the information, you shout down anyone who dares disagree and create an echo chamber of poor ideas.

2 hours ago, zazen said:

We shouldn't conflate making a judgment on certain behaviours (ie behaviours of men or women) and being judgmental. Judgmental is coming from a place of ego to put the 'other' down, to judge/discern is coming from a place of what could be good for you or us / our community if you acted differently.

Yeah, I agree with this. Everyone is in some sense innocent, because no one would actively choose to make harmful decisions consciously. But when you see behaviors and cultural norms that are clearly harmful, and then you see people engage in deflection, obfuscation, shaming etc to shut down conversation around said issue there is a problem.

The amount of woman I've seen on Kevin Samuel's show who chose to have children out of wedlock and then expressed disdain and disinterest in the very men they chose to procreate with is maddening. But you point this out and shine a spot light on issues like this and you get labeled misogynistic and racist. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Raptorsin7

[Consept]

2 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Consept Do you think Kevin Samuels is rooted solely in racism and misogyny? 

I do not deny he has a shadow,  and I take what he says with a grain of salt. But people here are completely missing a key part of his message 

Im not sure if its rooted in it but you can definitely see signs of it which is the shadow element youre talking about, but there are points that he brings up that are at least worthy of discussion. There was a paper i found before where they were looking at married black mens perspectives on why black women are single which ill link below which was quite interesting. But i think the general point is that black males perspectives on relationships are not really heard enough and can automatically be labelled as misogynist (which can be from years of women being oppressed). But the perspective is definitely necessary even if its wrong, in terms of being able to improve relationships. 

You can argue whether Kevin Samuels is the best to deliver that message but thats a separate thing.  

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4465800

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Consept

[Raptorsin7]

@Consept Okay thanks I'll check out that article.

The point about him being the best one to deliver it is fair. But where else is his kind of message being propagated?

At the very least there are thousands of young black men and woman who are seeing the consequences of single motherhood and will likely change how they view relationships and sex moving forward.

[Consept]

3 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Consept Okay thanks I'll check out that article.

The point about him being the best one to deliver it is fair. But where else is his kind of message being propagated?

At the very least there are thousands of young black men and woman who are seeing the consequences of single motherhood and will likely change how they view relationships and sex moving forward.

I mean ultimately on an individual level if he helps someone and they can separate out the toxic elements then i dont see a problem. But this is always the issue with teachers in that they maybe saying something relevant but people make heroes out of them and turn them ideological. In the case of KS in can in fact lead to men who are not really high value thinking they are or looking down on women as delusional idiots, this obviously can create problems in of itself. But not sure what the solution would be, its probably just an issue we have as a society