How do you know if a feeling is good or bad

[4201]

Supposedly, feeling guides you and let you know whether a thought is good or bad, aligns or not, is honest or not.

But this way of interpreting feeling is quite the duality. When you experience a thought and a feeling is associated to it, how do you know whether the feeling aligns with the thought or does not? I can sense the tentation to answer "by feeling" but how did you know what the feeling means? If feeling is like any other perception, how could it say anything at all? Shouldn't it be entirely non dualistic? What I see with my eyes is absolutely nothing before I'm interpreting it into meaning something. But that interpretation is mine, I'm the one who sees the yellow thing and thinks it is a banana.

Is it the same for feeling, am I the one judging feeling to be good or bad? If so, how can it even work? If it is the same thought that is being "evaluated" by feeling but also "evaluating" feeling (both judging and being judged) how could it provide any feedback at all about whether the thought is good or bad? If you think a thought to be true then wouldn't you also associate the feeling that comes with it to be good?

The idea that a thought is good or bad is actually a thought so it feels weird that feeling actually communicates thoughts. The fact it "feels weird" probably indicate this isn't the way to look at it. But then if I challenge the weirdness in feeling, I get into a place where feeling stop meaning anything. I can see thoughts saying "that's not it" but how do I even know that's true?

[Salvijus]

Just feel which actions create harmony and what actions create disharmony. Good and bad are concepts. But harmony and disharmony are existencial states. It takes a lot of self-awareness and sensitivity to feel this properly, that's just how it is..

Sometimes it's obvious tho, just do something hurtful to somebody and feel the disharmony that it causes in you. And do something positive to somebody and feel the love and harmony that comes in. That's a simple example to make it more clear.

[Salvijus]

There's a saying "do whatever makes you sleep well at night" . Spot on imo.

This is how to tell a good action from a bad action. You don't even need to wait for sleep. It can be felt at any moment.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Salvijus

[4201]

7 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Just feel which actions create harmony and what actions create disharmony. Good and bad are concepts. But harmony and disharmony are existencial states. It takes a lot of self-awareness and sensitivity to feel this properly, that's just how it is..

Sometimes it's obvious tho, just do something hurtful to somebody and feel the disharmony that it causes in you. And do something positive to somebody and feel the love and harmony that comes in. That's a simple example to make it more clear.

This implies that there is a "harmony" vs "disharmony" duality which is "not a concept" which is basically saying you have a duality "built-in" into your system you don't have access to.

I'm aware that "feeling works" and in no way this post prevents me from "functioning with feeling". (I know how to create harmony). But I'm curious how feeling works on a basic level and I can't get myself to accept such an explanation of feeling that implies an absolute good or bad, harmony or not, etc. (the word doesn't matter at all, you can switch it, the question remains the same).

Quote

There's a saying "do whatever makes you sleep well at night" . Spot on imo.

This is how to tell a good action from a bad action. You don't even need to wait for sleep. It can be felt at any moment.

I know all of that, what you present here is the assumption or understanding I'm coming from in the first place. Yet it doesn't explain what the good/bad or make you sleep/not duality is coming from.

Edited December 23, 2021 by 4201

[Roy]

Well it's hard to say that you "know" if it's good or bad, since that is wildly different for everyone and whatever intentions, desires, goals, or agenda they have. Is it fair to say that is where some of your uncertainty is coming from, because you're worried about how you are acting in comparison to others?

Regardless you'll still have to circle back and contemplate your own vision or intentions. Once you have those more or less clear (doesn't have to be perfect), you can contrast what you "think" those feelings are telling you vs what that deeper self (intuition) is telling you.

If they seem out of sync in an obvious way then maybe you've got to question that feeling some more, like where it's coming from.

Think of feelings more or less as "nudges" to keep you from getting too off track from your deeper self. Have you ever noticed that when you fuck up something in life in a big way that you feel like you got way off track ?

 

[Mason Riggle]

Consider.. is 'feeling hungry' good or bad?  It doesn't 'feel good' to 'feel hungry', but without 'feeling hungry' (suffering from hunger), how would we know to eat?  

Suffering (feeling bad) is how you know what you desire. What do you desire? Well, you desire not to suffer. 

 

[Salvijus]

The way I see it.

Either you feel harmonious or disharmonious. 

If you feel disharmonious, you must be doing something wrong. 

Simple ? 

Sorry,  i know it's probably not what you asked in your question. I'm not fully grasping what you write, or what is the problem here ?

Edited December 23, 2021 by Salvijus

[Breakingthewall]

I don't think there are good or bad feelings, there are more egoic and less. egoic feelings, such as hatred, aggressiveness, fear, comparative complexes, are egoic. I notice it because they have a peculiar, vicious, annoying taste. They can be addictive, like hatred or revenge, or completely unpleasant and paralyzing, like fear. non-egoic feelings are beauty, openness, wonder, lightness, selfless love, and they feel good, pure 

now I am feeling especially the bad ones, since tomorrow I am going to have dinner with my family. it is great therapy to observe this. and if not, lets drink good wine

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Terell Kirby]

Your ego defines good and bad relative to its survival needs.

When you transcend your ego and its survival mechanism, all feelings are Absolute Good (includes both relative notions of good and bad).

The question will always go back to how deep you can Love ❤️.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Terell Kirby

[Zigzag Idiot]

I find some wisdom in everyone's remarks. 

For myself, feelings are always sincere and never lie.  Not so with thoughts,,,

My deepest hatred became a doorway into a place where nothing is wrong anymore. With the caveat that the absence of Self Remembering is a return to some level of Hell. The idea of a 'once and for all permanent threshold' into tranquility is a fallacy. In my experience anyway. But the Kingdom of Heaven is always at hand if- "Ye become as little children".

It gets complicated because sometimes my inner child is a mean little shit. So the idea of becoming as a child needs to perceived in a certain light. One of letting go and of embracing or a return to innocence where stupidity is not mandatory. 

[4201]

1 hour ago, Roy said:

Is it fair to say that is where some of your uncertainty is coming from, because you're worried about how you are acting in comparison to others?

No, I'm looking for a more absolute understanding of feeling, while still acknowledging that the relative context of the body. Is the good/bad duality of feeling "baked" into the body or is it a trick I'm playing on myself and actually part of the mind?

1 hour ago, Roy said:

Think of feelings more or less as "nudges" to keep you from getting too off track from your deeper self. Have you ever noticed that when you fuck up something in life in a big way that you feel like you got way off track ?

I feel like this way of looking at feeling is relative and dualistic despite being relatively useful as a pointer. You still are creating a "off track"/"on track" duality. I'm not saying I don't agree with this and this is the starting point of my contemplation, but despite this working in practice it still feels like a belief because it comes with judgement of thoughts that are "in accordance to a higher self" or "not".

[Salvijus]

4 minutes ago, 4201 said:

Is the good/bad duality of feeling "baked" into the body or is it a trick I'm playing on myself and actually part of the mind?

Yes it is baked into the body. When somebody is in harmony with everything. Every cell in the body is dancing Hallelujah. And it sings the opposite when somebody does something that is not in accordance with truth and love.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Salvijus

[Roy]

 @4201 Fair enough, you are further along than me so I can't help you . I don't understand or grasp non-duality very well, it's like physics and advanced math from high school to me, which I didn't grade well in to say the least.

[4201]

1 hour ago, Mason Riggle said:

Consider.. is 'feeling hungry' good or bad?  It doesn't 'feel good' to 'feel hungry', but without 'feeling hungry' (suffering from hunger), how would we know to eat?  

Suffering (feeling bad) is how you know what you desire. What do you desire? Well, you desire not to suffer. 

Hunger is interpretation on top of stomach sensation. This interpretation is instinctive (learn pre birth). That hunger is bad is indeed an interpretation coming from survival. You could indeed let go of this idea that hunger is bad and contemplate the hunger (in fasting).

But you are right in saying that feeling bad is suffering, which in turn is thought. So in a sense there is absolutely no such thing as feeling bad, this is just an interpretation of feeling which in itself is absolutely not prescriptive and non dualistic.

But then if that's the case, how can feeling guide if it is absolutely not prescriptive? Does every bad thought come with a secondary thought which is saying "this feeling is bad"? We know "this feeling is bad" is a thought but also it's bad because of another thought which is false. None of this makes much sense. Feeling can only be dualistic through interpretation and if it's non-dualistic, how could it guide?

[4201]

3 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Yes it is baked into the body. When somebody is in harmony with everything. Every cell in the body is dancing Hallelujah. And it sings the opposite when somebody does something that is not in accordance with truth and love.

If that duality is "baked into the body" then I'm quite curious about the biology of it. What part of the body judges the thought the brain has? Do you have a part of the brain which "you" can't access that is there only to judge the quality of your thoughts? This feels rather weird, it feels to me imo that it's more likely a trick the mind is playing on itself.

[mandyjw]

You are feeling itself, you are awareness of the feeling. In that absence of thought there are no good or bad feelings. When you feel bad you know you've gone out towards thought and got lost in those that seem to separate you from that. It's a call home so to speak. Because you are not the feeling but the feeling, it's guidance. You are always home, always welcome home, but thought seemingly can be the prodigal son, and explore all kinds of shit. 

[4201]

4 minutes ago, Roy said:

 @4201 Fair enough, you are further along than me so I can't help you . I don't understand or grasp non-duality very well, it's like physics and advanced math from high school to me, which I didn't grade well in to say the least.

Tbh, I was closer to enlightenment before I had learned about dualities  Learn about dualities, just to learn there's absolutely no such thing as a duality...

[4201]

3 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

You are feeling itself, you are awareness of the feeling. In that absence of thought there are no good or bad feelings. When you feel bad you know you've gone out towards thought and got lost in those that seem to separate you from that. It's a call home so to speak. Because you are not the feeling but the feeling, it's guidance. You are always home, always welcome home, but thought seemingly can be the prodigal son, and explore all kinds of shit. 

OK that's indeed what makes the most sense.

But then feeling is only bad when it is thought to be bad. But how does a totally unrelated thought also feel bad? If I think "I hate that person" it will feel bad. But how does lead to an interpretation of feeling as "bad"? Does that mean for every thought I have I actually have 2? A "normal thought" and an interpretation of feeling?

[mandyjw]

1 minute ago, 4201 said:

OK that's indeed what makes the most sense.

But then feeling is only bad when it is thought to be bad. But how does a totally unrelated thought also feel bad? If I think "I hate that person" it will feel bad. But how does lead to an interpretation of feeling as "bad"? Does that mean for every thought I have I actually have 2? A "normal thought" and an interpretation of feeling?

It doesn't matter what the subject of the thought is. The subject of the thought can be about a person or about a feeling. A thought about a feeling is a thought, not feeling. Feeling itself is always direct, now. I can perpetuate negative emotion by being mad at the asshole who is being an asshole or I can be mad at myself for letting it bother me. The content or subject of the thought does. not. matter. It's just more spinning of the thought avoiding the feeling.

[4201]

2 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

 A thought about a feeling is a thought, not feeling.

Yes, but why does most thoughts have a feeling associated to it when the thought isn't itself about feeling? "Being mad at an asshole" is not a thought about feeling, it's just a thought. Why does it feel? Doesn't it mean there's also a secondary thought, which is about feeling, associated to the first thought? (Otherwise there would be no interpretation of feeling)

Alternatively, why can't I think negative things without feeling bad? Isn't the idea of a feeling "being bad" a totally different idea from the thoughts about other things?