Leo’s take

[Wildcattt555]

People posting about the vaccine being dangerous and ineffective will be banned.\

Watch what you post. I'm getting tired of reading this anti-vax crap.//

 

why can’t people talk about the relative risk of the vaccine? It’s not nothing. Why can’t people talk about the effectiveness of the vaccine?  The vaccinated can apparently still get and transmit Covid.  
 

what do you have to gain from stifling all talk about it? Honestly asking

[Danioover9000]

@Wildcattt555

5 minutes ago, Wildcattt555 said:

People posting about the vaccine being dangerous and ineffective will be banned.\

Watch what you post. I'm getting tired of reading this anti-vax crap.//

 

why can’t people talk about the relative risk of the vaccine? It’s not nothing. Why can’t people talk about the effectiveness of the vaccine?  The vaccinated can apparently still get and transmit Covid.  
 

what do you have to gain from stifling all talk about it? Honestly asking

   Because for the most part, threads about the vaccine can get derailed into oblivion. Even if the OP intends to have a discussion and try not to debate or be negative, other users can inadvertently or intentionally troll or derail the threads. Also, Leo has lumped anti vax with red/black/blue pill ideology, and conspiracy theories he considers harmful, so he's limiting the topics to such harmful ideas. I'd like to talk about the side effects of vaccine and how to best manage them because I experienced a few, but I sometimes worry that a thread like that can get derailed and nothing of value comes out of that, or users troll and nothing of value is imparted.

   He's trying to limit harm and damage control it seems to me.

    

[Wildcattt555]

37 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Wildcattt555

   Because for the most part, threads about the vaccine can get derailed into oblivion. Even if the OP intends to have a discussion and try not to debate or be negative, other users can inadvertently or intentionally troll or derail the threads. Also, Leo has lumped anti vax with red/black/blue pill ideology, and conspiracy theories he considers harmful, so he's limiting the topics to such harmful ideas. I'd like to talk about the side effects of vaccine and how to best manage them because I experienced a few, but I sometimes worry that a thread like that can get derailed and nothing of value comes out of that, or users troll and nothing of value is imparted.

   He's trying to limit harm and damage control it seems to me.

    

That makes sense thx.   Maybe I can just pose a theoretical question of a very deadly virus, with a perfectly effective vaccine, should the government have the ability to force people to take it.  I’m just baffled by the current support for forced vaccines, and wonder how people who dojustify their support.  Or even simply the notion of a forced medical procedure. How could that ever be justified outside of someone posing a direct threat to themselves or someone else?  do people see a danger in a setting a precedent , even if forced vaccinations or “ punishments ( social or otherwise ) could be justified in one case, for abuse in future situations ? Not to say anything of public medical records, which is also unsettling. 
 

how many people are really on board with this?

Edited December 22, 2021 by Wildcattt555

[Arcangelo]

45 minutes ago, Wildcattt555 said:

what do you have to gain from stifling all talk about it?

It's happening all over the internet. Actualized.org is part of the internet.

[DocWatts]

There are already plenty of 'anything goes' forums to indulge in conspiracy theories and anti-vax hysteria.

While there's a reasonable discussion to be had over vaccine mandates, in practice what happens is that threads which start with that intention become debates over whether the vaccines are harmful (they're not) or whether Covid is a big deal (it is).

Kudos for Leo for actually using his influence in a responsible way by not letting the forums become a Facebook or 4chan-esque breeding ground for misinformation and conspiricism.

Edited December 22, 2021 by DocWatts

[Arcangelo]

1 hour ago, Wildcattt555 said:

do people see a danger in a setting a precedent

I

do

[Arcangelo]

You want your country to be like Australia?

[Carl-Richard]

The threads that mention COVID-19 tend to derail into the same people making the same three points from one year ago. It's not just that it's boring and repetitive, but it also creates a skewed picture when people stop caring about engaging with it. It also doesn't help that so many people don't know how to represent statistics accurately (most notoriously not controlling for age).

[vladorion]

Leo is in deep denial about what's happening because of his anti-conservative and anti-conspiracy-theorist bias.

[w4read]

Vaccines are just becoming an outdated subject at this point. They obviously have a significantly positive effect and should be taken by anyone who cares to reduce the harm of this pandemic. 

I wish we could discuss other aspects of the pandemic such as the new omicron variant and how serious this seems to be. I saw that Leo made a thread about it, but that it was locked due to the thread just derailing into a large vaccine discussion. Now, new data is coming out and we aquire more and more knowledge as time goes by. 

[Leo Gura]

Way too much anti-vax bullshit being entertained on this forum.

You are not being intelligent by questioning and undermining vaccination. You are being dumb and hurting society, creating more endless Covid variants and hurting the economy.

[roopepa]

3 hours ago, Wildcattt555 said:

why can’t people talk about the relative risk of the vaccine? It’s not nothing. Why can’t people talk about the effectiveness of the vaccine?

Ego. "This forum will derail if this is talked about" etc. Which is probably true. Leo wants to create a "high quality" forum. What makes a deciliter of water is the cup, the boundary.

3 hours ago, Wildcattt555 said:

The vaccinated can apparently still get and transmit Covid.  

Of course they can, a vaccination is not miracle medicine. The virus enters the system with or without the vaccine. The vaccine just "prepares" the body to deal with it. You will get infected, but when you have the vaccine, your body already has the information on how to fight the virus.

Sure, there are risks in vaccination. But keep in mind that about 50% of the human population has taken it, so if it was seriously dangerous, we would know.

[Danioover9000]

@DocWatts @Carl-Richard

2 hours ago, DocWatts said:

There are already plenty of 'anything goes' forums to indulge in conspiracy theories and anti-vax hysteria.

While there's a reasonable discussion to be had over vaccine mandates, in practice what happens is that threads which start with that intention become debates over whether the vaccines are harmful (they're not) or whether Covid is a big deal (it is).

Kudos for Leo for actually using his influence in a responsible way by not letting the forums become a Facebook or 4chan-esque breeding ground for misinformation and conspiricism.

 

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

The threads that mention COVID-19 tend to derail into the same people making the same three points from one year ago. It's not just that it's boring and repetitive, but it also creates a skewed picture when people stop caring about engaging with it. It also doesn't help that so many people don't know how to represent statistics accurately (most notoriously not controlling for age).

   I wish we could have discussions about the health aspects of vaccination and the virus openly here, without it derailing into heated back and forth plus repetitive talking points from anti vax and conspiracies around the virus itself. It's a very low probability that the vaccination side effects is more lethal than the effects of virus, but for those very few that have actualized those side effects, it would be helpful for those few negatively effect to discuss and share resources in handling such effects. Unluckily I'm one of the very few myself.

   As for vaccination mandates, it mostly depends on the country and population and that society. If those places in general do not have preparations nor are sensitive to germs, versus places that are more prepared and more aware of germ effects, then enforcing mandate on just those countries that are not prepared is justified. The main issue is that needs a bigger system to oversee smaller systems that can adjust quickly, which is pretty difficult in practice. 

   

[hoodrow trillson]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Way too much anti-vax bullshit being entertained on this forum.

You are not being intelligent by questioning and undermining vaccination. You are being dumb and hurting society, creating more endless Covid variants and hurting the economy.

It's always the same posters.  No avatar havin' asses posting deranged cherry-picked studies that have no merit in the grand scheme of things.

I'm starting to suspect some of them are the same person with different alts.  It really makes using this forum a huge drag since it's such a low IQ take.

[DocWatts]

56 minutes ago, hoodrow trillson said:

It's always the same posters.  No avatar havin' asses posting deranged cherry-picked studies that have no merit in the grand scheme of things.

I'm starting to suspect some of them are the same person with different alts.  It really makes using this forum a huge drag since it's such a low IQ take.

It's almost akin to a hypothetical scenario where threads about addressing Climate Change are being consistently derailed by a handful of people declaiming that Climate Change is a hoax perpetuated by the liberal media.

It's a perspective that's not contributing anything of value, and only serves to drag the quality of discussions around the topic downward.

Edited December 22, 2021 by DocWatts

[Preety_India]

Most of these discussions devolve into conspiracy. 

Nobody tries to discuss it in a free fair manner. 

However I agree that a certain level of openness is needed when the discussion seems fair. 

 

 

[Johnny Galt]

Huh, I wonder, am I one of those avatars?

On a side note, I'm curious what you all see with the following video! and note...

They'll claim to be, "independent and your trusted sources", and yet they are all acting in unison

I ask us all, why is msm stoking fear when they could be informing us (the public) of the science? 

 

 

 

 

[hoodrow trillson]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Galt said:

Huh, I wonder, am I one of those avatars?

On a side note, I'm curious what you all see with the following video! and note...

They'll claim to be, "independent and your trusted sources", and yet they are all acting in unison

I ask us all, why is msm stoking fear when they could be informing us (the public) of the science? 

 

 

 

 

This is so boring, dude

you fucked up by being incredibly persistent in threads about this, that now we're laughing at you and not engaging lol

[SgtPepper]

15 hours ago, Wildcattt555 said:

Maybe I can just pose a theoretical question of a very deadly virus, with a perfectly effective vaccine, should the government have the ability to force people to take it.

If you think about it though, this is already the case with many vaccines. For example, I couldn't enroll into a US' public university without demonstrating I have received necessary vaccines even before covid came around.

So yes, the government does have the ability to do so. And it's reasonable so yes I do agree with communities adopting such protocol to protect everyone.

Edited December 23, 2021 by SgtPepper

[BlackPhil]

Feels like Leo is abit stuck in an echo-chamber when it comes to politics tbh, just like so many others nowdays with all the polarization going on. Associating every criticism of the vaccines with the opposite political faction. I don't really see any other gurus or yogis pushing these vaccines on people, quite the opposite.

Anyways Leo has alot of valuable wisdom when it comes to certain spiritual topics, but this doesn't make him an expert on everything ofc. I would advice you all to not follow him blindly on this issue even if you learned alot from him when it comes to other topics. 

It's his forums so guess the vaccine debate won't happen here, fine by me.