Bitcoin is an Open Pyramid Scheme

[Consept]

Im going to breakdown why i believe bitcoin to be a pyramid scheme, I may be wrong or missing info on some points so please feel free to correct me or debate me if the need arises. 

Briefly, Bitcoin was intended to be a new form of currency to offer an alternative to the current fiat currencies used globally. The main advantage of bitcoin is that its anonymous and decentralised from governments and financial institutions using the blockchain technology. This means that money can be moved around the world and stored without it being used for investments by these financial institutions, which of course has been a problem in recent years. 

So why am i saying its a pyramid scheme? Obviously this tech sounds great, but here are the issues -

Bitcoin is really only bought now on speculative basis, meaning people are buying it with the express purpose of selling it at a later date for a higher amount. Only 1.3% of bitcoin transactions are used to actually buy anything. Of course people will not want to buy anything if they know that they can make money from holding it, no one wants to tell the story of how they bought a pizza thats now worth $100 million. 

Currently Bitcoin is not a good currency for mass use, although its relatively easy to make transactions, the fluctuation of price puts people off. If i were to get paid in Bitcoin for example and the price halved, it would mean i would mean i basically did my months work for half the price, yeah i could hold onto it, but i got bills to pay. Essentially to be a widespread currency there has to be a fairly flat value, different currencies do change in value of course but nothing like crypto, in fact governments have to work hard to keep it quite flat so it can be used by the general public. 

So if people are only buying for speculation, the popularity is because of that, the currency argument is secondary and really an argument to get people to invest into it. 

If we look at the numbers of who holds bitcoin, we can see it take on a pyramid type shape, with the few who own the most at the top and everyone else at the bottom. The top 0.38% of wallets hold over $790 billion in bitcoin, this is spread between less than 150k wallets. On the flip side around 97% of wallets collectively own less than $50 billion and this is spread between around 40 million wallets. Now keep in mind the value is speculative and rises depending on what others coming in are willing to pay, the new people coming in are buying at a premium which raises the price further, meaning those at the top increase their value by huge amounts anytime someone invests at a premium, which is the basis of a pyramid scheme. 

Then we might look at who owns these huge amounts of bitcoin at the top, 3 wallets own nearly 3 % of all bitcoin at the very top, these are likely to be the people that created it or invested extremely early, most likely theyll have some connection with the creators if they arent themselves, the rest of the top 0.33% are said to be corporations and rich people that got in early. Corporations pour a lot of money into bitcoin for various reasons but the point is that the wealthiest are still at the top making money for nothing from the average person. 

So you might say, 'well this is just the structure of loads of investments, look at stocks, gold etc, you have to find someone else whos willing to buy it'. The difference is of course that there is intrinsic value behind stocks, there might be cash in the bank or the could be positive earnings which could mean you make dividends, the whole point is that companies 'produce' something that can grow the business and make income. Gold is a physical metal that is relatively scarce, it can be used in manufacturing, for jewellery etc, it doesnt make money but it has intrinsic value that can be worth something to someone. Bitcoin does not have intrinsic value, it cant make you money, you cant rent it out or use it for any production. 

Theres always a fiat currency comparison made, people will say 'bitcoin is just the same as normal currency all the stats youve given could also be attributed to fiat currency'. Of course this is true but the difference being, no one, especially not rich people, hold their cash in the hope that it would be worth more later. Fiat currency is simply a means to spend acquired value, its really just a temporary measure that is extremely liquid and is accepted worldwide. Comparing Bitcoin to this is really a false equivalency. 

Now the wider point here is that people are really looking for a work around of providing value and in some respects it makes sense because you could argue that a lot of peoples value is not being fairly rewarded, especially when you hear of ceos getting 100k x what their average worker gets. But there needs to be an understanding that you cant really work around this, either the value is there or its not and most likely if you have a middle man who youre selling your value to, they are going to make a lot more off of it than you. In fact those at the top are just giving you hope that you can make a lot of money, meanwhile profiting off of your investments. Also keep in mind, if you do make money, its most likely because some greater fool has given you theyre money hoping some other fool will give them their money. 

[tsuki]

24 minutes ago, Consept said:

Briefly, Bitcoin was intended to be a new form of currency to offer an alternative to the current fiat currencies used globally. The main advantage of bitcoin is that its anonymous and decentralised from governments and financial institutions using the blockchain technology. This means that money can be moved around the world and stored without it being used for investments by these financial institutions, which of course has been a problem in recent years. 

Bitcoin cannot be thought of in similar terms as regular money. That is because its supply cannot be scaled to match the growth of the economy that uses it. There is no incentive to spend it, because there is a limited amount of it, and its value will only grow in the long term. This why most users buy it to hold it, because there is no other incentive. Even if there was incentive to spend, then there is still a massive issue of integration between blockchain and regular money. Bitcoin fees are astronomically high, so it only makes sense to spend a lot of it in a single transaction.

If Bitcoin was designed to replace fiat money, it was designed incorrectly. It is, at best, the first approximation of what digital currency should look like. Its killer feature - decentralization is exactly what makes its price unpredictable, and it supply uncontrollable.

35 minutes ago, Consept said:

Then we might look at who owns these huge amounts of bitcoin at the top, 3 wallets own nearly 3 % of all bitcoin at the very top, these are likely to be the people that created it or invested extremely early, most likely theyll have some connection with the creators if they arent themselves, the rest of the top 0.33% are said to be corporations and rich people that got in early. Corporations pour a lot of money into bitcoin for various reasons but the point is that the wealthiest are still at the top making money for nothing from the average person. 

This is a speculation.

35 minutes ago, Consept said:

So you might say, 'well this is just the structure of loads of investments, look at stocks, gold etc, you have to find someone else whos willing to buy it'. The difference is of course that there is intrinsic value behind stocks, there might be cash in the bank or the could be positive earnings which could mean you make dividends, the whole point is that companies 'produce' something that can grow the business and make income. Gold is a physical metal that is relatively scarce, it can be used in manufacturing, for jewellery etc, it doesnt make money but it has intrinsic value that can be worth something to someone. Bitcoin does not have intrinsic value, it cant make you money, you cant rent it out or use it for any production. 

What you call "intrinsic value" is identical to "reputation". There is no objective, intrinsic, reason why gold is more valuable than dog shit. The only difference is that we deem it more valuable, we want it. Gold is not even used all that much in industry, compared to, let's say - steel.

Even if you compare usefulness of resources, it is extremely sketchy to compare actual resources that are used in production to abstractions of value, such as money. The"intrinsic value" of money is the ability to spend it, to exchange it for other goods. That, in turn, is dependent upon your trust in institutions that back it up. If European Union was in distress, Euro would be worthless - which is, again, why "intrinsic value" is "reputation". 

When you compare the trustworthiness of cryptocurrencies vs trustworthiness of fiat money, the former is backed up by political institutions, and the latter is backed up by technology. This is a matter of personal preference, but I strongly believe that cryptocurrencies in general will do to finance, what the Internet did to information.

 

[Consept]

21 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Bitcoin cannot be thought of in similar terms as regular money. That is because its supply cannot be scaled to match the growth of the economy that uses it. There is no incentive to spend it, because there is a limited amount of it, and its value will only grow in the long term. This why most users buy it to hold it, because there is no other incentive. Even if there was incentive to spend, then there is still a massive issue of integration between blockchain and regular money. Bitcoin fees are astronomically high, so it only makes sense to spend a lot of it in a single transaction.

If Bitcoin was designed to replace fiat money, it was designed incorrectly. It is, at best, the first approximation of what digital currency should look like. Its killer feature - decentralization is exactly what makes its price unpredictable, and it supply uncontrollable.

Thanks for your comments first of all. I agree its not a very good replacement for fiat currency and it may not have been designed as such, however a lot of people are gambling on that being the case. Also my point was that it is purely speculative if its not going to be used for transaction, the speculative bet being that if i put something into bitcoin today, someone will pay me more for that at a later date. I was taking out the use case for it, which i guess you agree with from your comment. 

24 minutes ago, tsuki said:

This is a speculation.

Its somewhat speculation as of course bitcoin is anonymous, but there are numerous publications that have looked into it and found out whos most likely to own them. Also this wouldnt really affect the numbers even if those at the top are all early adopters, its still the same pyramid structure. 

https://currency.com/who-has-the-most-bitcoin

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/people/083016/who-are-top-5-bitcoin-millionaires.asp

https://river.com/learn/who-owns-the-most-bitcoin/

Theres a lot more

29 minutes ago, tsuki said:

What you call "intrinsic value" is identical to "reputation". There is no objective, intrinsic, reason why gold is more valuable than dog shit. The only difference is that we deem it more valuable, we want it. Gold is not even used all that much in industry, compared to, let's say - steel.

Even if you compare usefulness of resources, it is extremely sketchy to compare actual resources that are used in production to abstractions of value, such as money. The"intrinsic value" of money is the ability to spend it, to exchange it for other goods. That, in turn, is dependent upon your trust in institutions that back it up. If European Union was in distress, Euro would be worthless - which is, again, why "intrinsic value" is "reputation". 

Yes we give the value to gold, but of course gold has a reputation spanning centuries, also gold is not priced at 50k an ounce, so in that sense as a store of value its been extremely consistent. Also should be noted people dont think gold is going to make them rich and so most investment portfolios dont have a large amount of gold, maybe 10% or so is usually recommended as a hedge. 

Regarding fiat currencies, again no one is holding them to make money in the future, the whole point is that it is consistent which is why it has its reputation, bitcoin because of the amount of speculation will have a different kind of reputation. 

That being said, blockchain is here to stay and can change a lot of things, however if this was a technology that people couldnt personally make much money from, they probably wouldnt care about it. Its the money potential that has led to peoples interest, not the tech itself. A pyramid scheme can still include a valid product, its just the value can be pumped up ridiculously. So im not arguing about the tech, im arguing most will find themselves in the grip of a pyramid scheme. 

[tsuki]

The pyramid scheme occurs when new participants pay dividends to people who joined earlier, at their own expense. How is it true for Bitcoin?

The net worth of the currency increases, which is beneficial to every participant. The relative loss late adopters experience does not benefit the earlier ones.

2 hours ago, Consept said:

Regarding fiat currencies, again no one is holding them to make money in the future, the whole point is that it is consistent which is why it has its reputation, bitcoin because of the amount of speculation will have a different kind of reputation. 

I think it would be beneficial to this conversation if you defined what is speculation in the domain of currency. 

I don't think that the price of Bitcoin is volatile because people cannot reliably predict its "intrinsic value" because there is no such thing. The BTC price is volatile compared to standard currencies, which are deliberately stabilized by centralized authorities to serve social needs.

Bitcoin has no such constraints because it does answer to political institutions. It's like saying that newspapers are better than websites because they the internet has no editors. These are two completely different domains. Apples and oranges.

Also, please note that when you say that a currency is worth something, this worth is always expressed in another currency. This does not mean that one currency is better than another currency. It simply means that more people want to own it relative to its supply.

Also, when viewing financial systems via the lens of reputation, the reputation concerns the system that provides the money. It's government, or technology, not USD or Bitcoin. To predict the price of USD, you have to understand American politics, not the printing press. When you want to predict Bitcoin price, you have to understand the problems it solves relative to other cryptocurrencies, or how it advances decentralization of finance.

And this may tie back to my question about your definition of speculation. At best, speculation is simply using unreliable sources of information, with no understanding of underlying principles. It's making decisions based on hearsay. No system can prevent it because every person should have the opportunity to learn from their own mistakes.

Edited December 22, 2021 by tsuki

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Consept said:

Im going to breakdown why i believe bitcoin to be a pyramid scheme

All financial markets are basically pyramid schemes.

A stock is worth nothing unless others are willing to buy it. Even a piece of land is not worth anything unless other humans want to buy it.

Quote

Bitcoin is really only bought now on speculative basis, meaning people are buying it with the express purpose of selling it at a later date for a higher amount. Only 1.3% of bitcoin transactions are used to actually buy anything. Of course people will not want to buy anything if they know that they can make money from holding it, no one wants to tell the story of how they bought a pizza thats now worth $100 million. 

Currently Bitcoin is not a good currency for mass use, although its relatively easy to make transactions, the fluctuation of price puts people off. If i were to get paid in Bitcoin for example and the price halved, it would mean i would mean i basically did my months work for half the price, yeah i could hold onto it, but i got bills to pay. Essentially to be a widespread currency there has to be a fairly flat value, different currencies do change in value of course but nothing like crypto, in fact governments have to work hard to keep it quite flat so it can be used by the general public. 

So if people are only buying for speculation, the popularity is because of that, the currency argument is secondary and really an argument to get people to invest into it. 

The function of Bitcoin is not so much as currency for transactions but as a secure store of value. THIS is why people speculate with it. Because it could end up the best store of value on the planet given how secure and unfuck-with-able it is.

Quote

but the point is that the wealthiest are still at the top making money for nothing from the average person. 

That's always gonna be the case. That doesn't discredit Bitcoin. Bitcoin does not need to be evenly or fairly distributed to have enormous value. Gold is not evenly distributed.

Quote

The difference is of course that there is intrinsic value behind stocks, there might be cash in the bank or the could be positive earnings which could mean you make dividends, the whole point is that companies 'produce' something that can grow the business and make income. Gold is a physical metal that is relatively scarce, it can be used in manufacturing, for jewellery etc, it doesnt make money but it has intrinsic value that can be worth something to someone. Bitcoin does not have intrinsic value, it cant make you money, you cant rent it out or use it for any production. 

A) There is no such thing as intrinsic value. All that value is made up and based on market demand.

B) Bitcoin is more scarce than gold. That's why it's so valuable. You cannot make any more Bitcoin. More gold you can mine forever.

- - - - - - -

With all that said, yes, Bitcoin is very speculative. No one has any idea what Bitcoin is truly worth. That all depends on how widely it will be adopted in the future.

The value of Bitcoin is that everyone agrees that it has value.

If everyone stop agreeing to that, then it will lose all its value. But if everyone agrees that we will always value Bitcoin, Bitcoin will skyrocket in value. You should think of Bitcoin really as a brand name. That is its value.

[Ohsee]

ITs NOT A PYRAMID ITS A DIMARYP! 

[Consept]

2 hours ago, tsuki said:

The pyramid scheme occurs when new participants pay dividends to people who joined earlier, at their own expense. How is it true for Bitcoin?

The net worth of the currency increases, which is beneficial to every participant. The relative loss late adopters experience does not benefit the earlier ones.

They dont pay dividends directly, you are right but as late adopters put in money at a higher price it puts more worth in the pockets of the early adopters, the value is based on more people putting in money which is why early adopters or anyone whos invested, would encourage others to get in. It is beneficial to everyone but it works somewhat like a pyramid where its very beneficial to those at the top and a little beneficial to those at the bottom. When it drops its very detrimental to those at the bottom if theyve bought at a high price, whereas not so much in overall terms for those at the top. 

2 hours ago, tsuki said:

I think it would be beneficial to this conversation if you defined what is speculation in the domain of currency. 

OK i want to be very clear on what i mean here, i probably have a similar definition to you though. So speculation is investing in something without much knowledge on it apart from the fact that you believe it will go up in the future. Now youre right, no system can really stop this from happening, but my central premise is that this is a pyramid scheme and that still stands, obviously all pyramid schemes are inherently speculative. The common belief with bitcoin is that its going to make everyone rich and my point is that a lot of people are going to lose out. Essentially an argument against this would be to say that its a pyramid scheme that is going to work out for everyone and i just cant see that happening. 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

All financial markets are basically pyramid schemes.

A stock is worth nothing unless others are willing to buy it. Even a piece of land is not worth anything unless other humans want to buy it.

True but then land and other investments can pay out as they provide value to someone. If you buy some a rental property, you will probably be able to rent it out for continued income or worst case if no one rents it and it goes to zero, live in it yourself saving money on rent. Bitcoin doesnt pay out dividends or rent so the only way to make money is the price rising which you will need others to keep pumping money into it and storing value there

 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The function of Bitcoin is not so much as currency for transactions but as a secure store of value. THIS is why people speculate with it. Because it could end up the best store of value on the planet given how secure and unfuck-with-able it is.

Yes i agree, as a store of value it does make sense, but again i dont think people are putting in money just to store value, i think its about making as much as they can. 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's always gonna be the case. That doesn't discredit Bitcoin. Bitcoin does not need to be evenly or fairly distributed to have enormous value. Gold is not evenly distributed.

It doesnt no, but i want to make a distinction between the technology and the way the tech is being used. People are buying in thinking this is some great equaliser and wealth is going to transfer (which ive heard firsthand from bitbros). Its simply not the case and those buying in at the top dont realise that when one of these whales takes a bit of profit, theyre the ones providing this profit. 

 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

With all that said, yes, Bitcoin is very speculative. No one has any idea what Bitcoin is truly worth. That all depends on how widely it will be adopted in the future.

The value of Bitcoin is that everyone agrees that it has value.

If everyone stop agreeing to that, then it will lose all its value. But if everyone agrees that we will always value Bitcoin, Bitcoin will skyrocket in value. You should think of Bitcoin really as a brand name. That is its value.

Agree with most of this. The trouble is again though, this hype is not going to last forever and i think when people dont see the returns they expected or another crypto overtakes or a whale takes out a chunk of bitcoin, the price is going to drop heavy. Most of the people in bitcoin dont love or care about bitcoin, they love money and theyre trying to pimp bitcoin for it, when that drys out there will be problems. 

But overall i like the tech i think it will change society but i think the pyramid aspect comes in because society is mainly orange and this is really a yellow technology. 

[Leo Gura]

Bitcoin could easily replace gold as a store of value. Look up the market cap of gold. Then compare to market cap of Bitcoin.

If Bitcoin replaces gold, you will 10x your money. If Bitcoin replaces all fiat currency, you will 60x your money. This is why folks are hyped.

[Preety_India]

Bitcoin will become defunct and go out of fashion. 

 

[silene]

@Preety_India  Yes, I guess it depends if you mean Bitcoin in particular or crypto currencies in general. I think bitcoin was the first one that came out, so there will probably be more advanced ones soon, if not already. Perhaps bitcoin is trading on (ie being speculated on) its reputation rather than its actual technical advantage these days. 

[something_else]

2 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Bitcoin will become defunct and go out of fashion. 

 

If you're so sure about that then put all your money into bitcoin shorts  

Put your money where your mouth is

Edited December 22, 2021 by something_else

[Lyubov]

I think Bitcoin (specifically) lacking political institutions and government support is going to keep it from advancing to some sort of new gold reserve. The invisible hand of the free market works in mysterious ways but I don’t think it will be Bitcoin. Just too many issues with it, lots covered in the op, for it to transition to that. There is also basically zero infrastructure for using it like a regular currency. It’s too volatile. As for the technology of crypto emerging in some form and changing economics and economies, sure. Bitcoin I think will be like one of those early computers that didn’t take off. What it has going for it is the brand name of it though but stuff like that can switch overnight. Hopefully something better gets adopted. 

Edited December 22, 2021 by Lyubov

[Yarco]

5 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Bitcoin will become defunct and go out of fashion. 

Bitcoin can't go defunct as long as at least 1 node is still running.

Look at how many thousands of altcoins have popped up and still Bitcoin is #1. It's digital gold. Even if a more feature-rich cryptocurrency comes along, it will still be the #1 store of value. Plus they are building things like the Lightning Network on top of Bitcoin to make up for any shortcomings in things like transaction speed. It could probably have smart contracts and proof of stake in a few years if that's what people want.

I'm not even a Bitcoin maximalist. Of all my crypto holdings about 95% is in altcoins and 5% is in Bitcoin. It's just a fact that Bitcoin is king.

[Joel3102]

2 hours ago, Yarco said:

Bitcoin can't go defunct as long as at least 1 node is still running.

Look at how many thousands of altcoins have popped up and still Bitcoin is #1. It's digital gold. Even if a more feature-rich cryptocurrency comes along, it will still be the #1 store of value. Plus they are building things like the Lightning Network on top of Bitcoin to make up for any shortcomings in things like transaction speed. It could probably have smart contracts and proof of stake in a few years if that's what people want.

I'm not even a Bitcoin maximalist. Of all my crypto holdings about 95% is in altcoins and 5% is in Bitcoin. It's just a fact that Bitcoin is king.

Bitcoin returns have been lower than most of the others this cycle. However I think good chance it’ll become the world reserve store of value. Mainstream currency? I’m more doubtful 

I think Ripple (XRP) has some good potential, as it’s a genuinely useful technology and doesn’t rely upon fantastical ideas of fiat collapsing, however it can supplement existing banking system 

[tsuki]

In my opinion, as it currently stands, cryptocurrencies will not replace fiat money. This is because of how they are designed.

Imagine if the Internet was such that in order to view actualized.org, you would have to download the whole internet and store it locally on your hdd. This is what cryptocurrencies are currently like. This is clearly unsustainable.

What has to happen is we either have to have an unprecedented advance in communications and storage technology, or someone has to come up with a clever way to verify whether blockchain is secure without having the whole copy of it. 

What I think will happen in the future is that we will, at some point, stop caring about the global blockchain security, and start treating it more locally. We will start to watch people we transact with and verify them, instead of verifying everything that is stored on blockchain. There will probably also exist another breed of blockchain service animals alongside miners/verifiers, which will deal with blockchain security specifically. They will be an analog of blockchain police that will track frauds by downloading larger and larger portions of data. They will be awarded based on their findings.

Another thing that will probably change is that most already establish cryptos will transition to proof of stake and this protocol will allow stakeholders to vote on the coin supply algorithm parameters. This is how blockchains will scale their coin supply based on market demand. This is crucial if they were to replace fiat money. Without it, they will only ever be held.

Edited December 23, 2021 by tsuki

[Raptorsin7]

@Consept Nice write up man, that makes a lot of sense.

Any idea on what to do with your insight? I hear your argument, but idk what to do now given that information. Are you arguing to stay away from investing in it?

[JosephKnecht]

Bitcoin is a technology that extracts physical energy and converts it to digital energy. 

 

[Consept]

6 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Consept Nice write up man, that makes a lot of sense.

Any idea on what to do with your insight? I hear your argument, but idk what to do now given that information. Are you arguing to stay away from investing in it?

Thank you bro. 

To answer your question im slightly weary about giving direct advice because ultimately i could be wrong, although i am currently studying a financial advisor course im in no way an expert. My intention with the post was to give some facts on what i believe to be happening and then people can make their own minds up as to what to do. The reality is you could very well make money from Bitcoin but just know if you are making money from it youve just know someone else has probably lost money, i also doubt that everyone will make 60x their money, nothings impossible but i just cant see it, what goes up must come down. Also keep in mind it only takes a few of these whales to cash out and bitcoin will drop heavily, a lot of retail investors are not seasoned and will get very worried if it freefalls. That being said even if it does drop bitcoin could go a lot higher before that happens. 

Another thing to keep in mind is that with something like Madoffs ponzi scheme, a lot of the people eventually recouped their money from those that made money and got out early, this is talked about in this FT article - https://www.ft.com/content/83a14261-598d-4601-87fc-5dde528b33d0 With bitcoin if it does go to zero there is literally no chance of you getting that money back. FT makes the argument that this ponzi scheme is actually safer than bitcoin. 

What i can advise is to only invest what youre willing to lose and recognise that this is very much a gamble. It shouldnt account for more than 5% of what should be a diversified portfolio. Personally im not a gambler and im perfectly fine with fomo so i probably wont put anything into it, Im invested in diversified funds and looking to get into property next year. I understand the desire to make a lot of money quickly, but really imo that time researching bitcoin would be better spent putting together a business that can provide value to people and make money, i think this is a legit better bet than bitcoin. 

[Raptorsin7]

7 hours ago, Consept said:

Thank you bro. 

To answer your question im slightly weary about giving direct advice because ultimately i could be wrong, although i am currently studying a financial advisor course im in no way an expert. My intention with the post was to give some facts on what i believe to be happening and then people can make their own minds up as to what to do. The reality is you could very well make money from Bitcoin but just know if you are making money from it youve just know someone else has probably lost money, i also doubt that everyone will make 60x their money, nothings impossible but i just cant see it, what goes up must come down. Also keep in mind it only takes a few of these whales to cash out and bitcoin will drop heavily, a lot of retail investors are not seasoned and will get very worried if it freefalls. That being said even if it does drop bitcoin could go a lot higher before that happens. 

Another thing to keep in mind is that with something like Madoffs ponzi scheme, a lot of the people eventually recouped their money from those that made money and got out early, this is talked about in this FT article - https://www.ft.com/content/83a14261-598d-4601-87fc-5dde528b33d0 With bitcoin if it does go to zero there is literally no chance of you getting that money back. FT makes the argument that this ponzi scheme is actually safer than bitcoin. 

What i can advise is to only invest what youre willing to lose and recognise that this is very much a gamble. It shouldnt account for more than 5% of what should be a diversified portfolio. Personally im not a gambler and im perfectly fine with fomo so i probably wont put anything into it, Im invested in diversified funds and looking to get into property next year. I understand the desire to make a lot of money quickly, but really imo that time researching bitcoin would be better spent putting together a business that can provide value to people and make money, i think this is a legit better bet than bitcoin. 

Great post thanks a lot. 

You really opened my eyes here, I'm not an investor or anything but I'm much more skeptical about bitcoin after reading this. At least with respect to trying make profit by investing in it 

[Consept]

Not posting to gloat, genuinely feel for anyone that lost money in the last week or so, the Luna drop was insane. But Im just curious where people are at with crypto now, have you given up? Are you going to put more money in and double down? Have any opinions changed?