Using Psychedelics For Self Actualization

[Jared]

To preface, I am not encouraging the use of illegal psychedelics, I am just curious on your opinions on how beneficial the use of things like LSD and DMT can be in the enlightenment journey. I personally have experienced an extreme ego death on DMT which was what got me interested in meditation, self improvement and the idea of no self. Obviously if someone plans to have one of these experiences they should be knowledgeable of the drug, it's potency and the effects it will have. Most importantly I want to note that for me psychedelics are used as way to gain new perspectives on certain aspects of life, using them solely to find answers is not what they are meant for. So what are your thoughts and opinions? Has anyone had a similar experience, and was it beneficial to self actualization?

[Rufus]

I made some brief research about what psychedelics exactly do, and listened to so manny recording by Terence Mckenna, I wish we live in a world where we can try them legally to at least conduct our studies... but let's please not mix this with spiritual enlightenment. Physcedllics has glimpses of it mixed with so many funny visuals and sounds, and this is not it.

Personal conclusions.
Aside of the funny hallucinations that comes with Psychedelic drugs, YES, it kills or reduces the Ego, but for brief moments, we become relaxed and loving for a while with some funny perception effects, but when the effect goes away, the ego is back and sometimes it's even stronger, and life will turn into hell again, you will go back to pay your taxes and go to your crappy job and remember who awful your life is, so you will want to consume more drugs to go back to that state.. it will become an addiction, not to mention how much you damage you are causing your body and brain, and how much suffering you are causing to your family, and the people around you.

Why I think the enlightened path is more effective? it's because you will work on all the aspects in your practical life that bring you to this graceful state, when you tame your ego, and learn to love people, fix your problems with yourself and the world and minimize your obligations, gradually you will automatically make a bless out of yourself every day.
the enlightenment path works to simplify your life, and gradually solve all the bullshit that is filling our heads in this era of the capitalist modern city people.
enlightenment is permanent because you will solve so many things in your life, until you will not have to worry about anything for real.
The path result is permanent and it will affect your life amazingly in all aspects, unlike drugs.

Hope this is useful.

Edited February 11, 2016 by MWS

[Simon Zackrisson]

This is something I really want to empathise: IF YOU CONSIDER DOING LSD: DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE.

Having a bad trip can fuck you up bad, and you can't forget it so easy.

------------

Bro.

I've done LSD, and the positive results from this are remarkable.

It's like you get a chance to remove yourself from the equation, and contemplate your life objectively. To see all the folly committed, and how to remedy it.

It does sound ridiculous, but it is kinda like being granted superpowers for a short while.

 

Now, there are of course also negative sides to this.

A thing that has extremely powerful properties is often bound to have a wide range of what it's capable of.

As a psychonaut, you're exploring uncharted territories and what you'll find can both be pleasant as well as distressing.

I've been going through dark waters, and believe me, IT IS NOT ALL FUN. Don't trust the hippies! 

There is a lot, a lot, to this substance LSD.

Very fascinating indeed, and a beneficial resource if treated with respect.

One of the best descriptions imo for how it is to navigate through the reality of LSD: 
"It's like trying to describe colors to a blind person. It changes the way you think."

Edited February 11, 2016 by Simon Zackrisson

[Fishy]

MWS have u tried psychedelics yourself? Does not sound like it. When people don't learn from their experience its because they resist what they learned or lack the discipline to follow up what they learned. Or simply didn't want to learn anything and did it for the fun, maybe in a too low dose. 

It wont make an addiction in fact most usually when taken you do not want to take it for a while because of it intense experience.  To me it has changed my perspective on life for a longer time. The time after a trip and reflecting on it is just as important as the trip itself. Digest what u experienced. It can make u wanna change your life, maybe it's just if u have a very intense deep experience like I had. It can shoe u yourself in a very different light, make u face ur demons But i wont recommend doing it often, like Alan Watts said its like a phone call when u get the message u hang up afterwards.

Its not to be used as an substitute for meditation but it is good to try at least once.

I recommend reading "The joyous cosmology" by Alan Watts

Edited February 11, 2016 by Fishy

[Dhana Choko]

To my experience, you cannot wake up using drugs. Drugs just create another level of dream world that can be confused with waking up, but in truth it just distorts you further into the mind's dream land. And unfortunately it has some serious side effects for some people, for example paranoia, psychosis, unbalanced emotions, depression, extreme forms of rage and hate etc. This makes self-actualization work even harder.

There are no known negative side-effects for example for contemplation or meditation, so I recommend that.

[Fishy]

Those sideeffects mostly comes because u don't face and accept what is happening and the now and react with fear which is muliplied.

[Walter B]

1 hour ago, Simon Zackrisson said:

This is something I really want to empathise: IF YOU CONSIDER DOING LSD: DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE.

Having a bad trip can fuck you up bad, and you can't forget it so easy.

------------

Bro.

I've done LSD, and the positive results from this are remarkable.

It's like you get a chance to remove yourself from the equation, and contemplate your life objectively. To see all the folly committed, and how to remedy it.

It does sound ridiculous, but it is kinda like being granted superpowers for a short while.

 

Now, there are of course also negative sides to this.

A thing that has extremely powerful properties is often bound to have a wide range of what it's capable of.

As a psychonaut, you're exploring uncharted territories and what you'll find can both be pleasant as well as distressing.

I've been going through dark waters, and believe me, IT IS NOT ALL FUN. Don't trust the hippies! 

There is a lot, a lot, to this substance LSD.

Very fascinating indeed, and a beneficial resource if treated with respect.

One of the best descriptions imo for how it is to navigate through the reality of LSD: 
"It's like trying to describe colors to a blind person. It changes the way you think."

"LSD My problem child" by Albert Hoffman, if I recall. Great read!

[Walter B]

25 minutes ago, Fishy said:

Those sideeffects mostly comes because u don't face and accept what is happening and the now and react with fear which is muliplied.

Wonder if someone somewhere is watching videos or doing self improvement or enlightenment work while on LSD! 

Imagine the college experience these days!

But we have a rich history of this type. Think about a clockwork Orange or fear and loathing or mk ultra or things experimented with leading up to ww2. Mind control is by no means a new thing.

Hoffman's book covers some wild stuff. Yes, LSD is very powerful. So can be the many different derivatives that often result with street attempts of production. Some of our current prescriptions in society can be even more powerful long term! Think about what happens to the person who's been on ADD type drugs for most of their life. They are numb!

[Rufus]

2 hours ago, Fishy said:

MWS have u tried psychedelics yourself? Does not sound like it. When people don't learn from their experience its because they resist what they learned or lack the discipline to follow up what they learned. Or simply didn't want to learn anything and did it for the fun, maybe in a too low dose. 

It wont make an addiction in fact most usually when taken you do not want to take it for a while because of it intense experience.  To me it has changed my perspective on life for a longer time. The time after a trip and reflecting on it is just as important as the trip itself. Digest what u experienced. It can make u wanna change your life, maybe it's just if u have a very intense deep experience like I had. It can shoe u yourself in a very different light, make u face ur demons But i wont recommend doing it often, like Alan Watts said its like a phone call when u get the message u hang up afterwards.

Its not to be used as an substitute for meditation but it is good to try at least once.

I recommend reading "The joyous cosmology" by Alan Watts

11

Unfortunately I never played with psychedelics, I luckily have a high level of DMT in my brain naturally, sometimes it becomes more dominant under some medical conditions where I start to have a slightly altered perception with a reduction of Ego, I have an idea about what this is, and that's one of the reasons why I got interested in this subject.

You can use a conscious use of psychedelics to reach your higher aspects, YES. It's absolute life changing, psychedelics will create a distance between your mind and body, and when your whole perception is altered and everything you ever known will collapse, of course you will ask yourself what the hell I am, that's why many Psychedelics users become curious about enlightenment, psychedelics will make you see and feel everything differently, it will make you wiser only if you are conscious enough to distinguish between what is hallucination, what is perception effects, and what is real, many people just cannot. they will just take it compulsively for entertainment.
The Elimination of Ego is Real but it's difficult to distinguish between all the non-physical things you are experiencing, if these psychedelics was put with the wrong people it will definitely be misused. and If I said Psychedelics are awesome and some people misuse it and got themselves caught or killed (which is very likely), I don't want to carry this burden for the rest of my life.
Jared here asked if using Psychedelic will help your self-actualization, the short answer is yes but with risks and it depends on how conscious is the person about what he/she is doing, and if self-actualization is the destination then there is a safer way, if you can play safe then why trouble?

For me hallucination and perception alteration are fun but they are not my main destination, don't you see that reality is already an altered state of perception?
So for me if there is a way where I can reach my main destination without legal troubles, social troubles, hallucinations and medical side effects, I will prefer taking a spiritual path. If I put my hands on Psychedelics without bringing any troubles to my life, I'm sure it's fun and different.
It's up to you, I'm not telling you what to do

Edited February 11, 2016 by MWS

[Fishy]

Good answer:)

Yes I see that the world is already an altered state of perception, and that i learned through psychedelic experience.

I don't its really possible to really understand what experience is like unless u have tried it though, but it is not necessary and I think its okey if people choose to never try it.  The visual aspects is not the main thing about it. 

I don't think its likely at all to get killed if u use one of the traditional psychedelics like mushroom or ayahuascha, or LSD for that matter. Dont ever try any of the research chemicals

I have not taken any psychedelic for many years, 8 or so and not so many times. All I do now is read a lot and meditate daily.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Fishy

[Simon Zackrisson]

52 minutes ago, Dhana Choko said:

To my experience, you cannot wake up using drugs. Drugs just create another level of dream world that can be confused with waking up, but in truth it just distorts you further into the mind's dream land.

What?  What do you mean by that? I find it fascinating that you should mandate which perception is truth and which is just distortion. 

On LSD, there can be silencing of thoughts, and deep realisation to step out of the heavily ingrained mind patterns. 
This sounds like the opposite of what you described.

What psychedelic drugs are able to assist with is consciousness altering, and this can definitely be helpful for some people. To just discard that as "another level of dream world" seems to me as highly ignorant.

I'm assuming you've tried LSD with such a strong statement?

 

Note: I am not saying that one can rely on psychedelics for spirituality. 

The reason I did it in the first place was actually not for this intent, even though I did receive a lot of insight in this regard.

I am however saying that a lot of people hold it dearly as a powerful resource.

It's not for everyone of course, just like some people like chocolate while some prefer gummy bears.

52 minutes ago, Dhana Choko said:

And unfortunately it has some serious side effects for some people, for example paranoia, psychosis, unbalanced emotions, depression, extreme forms of rage and hate etc. This makes self-actualization work even harder.

It's important to be clear with that LSD does not cause e.g schizophrenia. 

What it may do, is enhance the speed at which an already existing illness is developing.
It does not cause illness on its own. 

So people with history of mental sickness in the family should definitely take care.

52 minutes ago, Dhana Choko said:

There are no known negative side-effects for example for contemplation or meditation, so I recommend that.

I recommend that too.
One does not have to exclude the other.


Side note: Now we're not even talking about DMT, which is a psychedelic I haven't tried. People have said they have come to such profound insights on this one.  I'm also curious if you've experienced DMT @Dhana Choko ?

[Chameleon]

Like most people, I've experienced the positive and negative influences that LSD had to offer through doses of different strengths; quality of substance, the company I kept, the environmental factor that came into play and my state of mind at the time; it all had an impact.

Through this one memorable experience I had, I had to sit myself in a comfortable bedroom away from the party upstairs, away from any distractions, I say down and meditated. But before isolating myself, (as you know this is a potent substance alters the state of your perception), I experienced what felt to me like telepathy, I knew exactly what the individual was about to say before they said it, word by word, even thoughts from some of the strong sexual energies in the room, it was THAT powerful, and ofcourse by that time I had to seperate myself from the crowd as it became a little uncomfortable. 

I went deep into the rabbit hole, processing these thoughts and feelings, as I looked to the top of the ceiling I saw an array of colourful energies exchanging back and forth, signifying each individuals various emotions as they were conversing with one another. 

After long observation of myself and what just happened, I just let it all go and that's when I had a truely remarkable experience of just being in the moment, and being with myself. It was probably the best trip I ever had and it was just proof to me that you can find true contentment and solace in yourself, if you just let it be. Mind you this trip lasted for 14 hours, but I meditated for what felt like half that time. What I left with defiantly shed some light about what I was learning at the time, and am still learning now.

Also to back up my telepathic experience, which I know can be hard to believe, (it's like you have to experience it to believe it, just like any other theory that hasn't been scientifically proven as of yet). My friend and I went to a festival early last year and consumed very a strong LSD tab and throughout our trip we were able to Tele-communicate, even without looking at each other. We both confirmed this the next day, that this actually happened. And it was hard to wrap our heads around it, just like it is say if you were to see aliens for the first time, your mind just cannot comprehend it.

Theres so much more to these two specific LSD trips I had but I'm not going to go into great detail because it's very hard to verbalise it without sounding completely whack, but I digress, that experience shed some light but also had some long term negative affects on me; it surfaced paranoia in me; this belief that others can read my thoughts; and some other weird stuff but I haven't gotten myself diagnosed so I'm not going to claim that it was drug induced psychosis (although that's what it felt like). I've only just recovered from all that mind boggle and anxiety provoking thoughts now

To answer your question, yes, all that was beneficial for my self development, although there we some post traumas involved I've learnt a lot from it and about the mind itself, which I'm absolutely fascinated by.

[DanoDMano]

I can remember a time way back in the early 80's a group of us doing some psychedelics (can't remember what though) and we spent the night discussing the meaning of life. We were thrilled after having figuring "it" all out, unfortunately we'd forgotten all the answers after waking up the next day. We were so disappointed. So in my own opinion, what's the sense? I think our goal should be to figure "it" out in our own unfiltered reality thus giving us the opportunity to return to "it" whenever we wish. 

[David1]

I have experience with psilocybine mushrooms, and it has absolutely changed my life in a positive way. The experiences made me quit smoking, lose weight, put me on the path of self developement and overall live a healthier, happier life. It expanded my consciouness, made me realize and see behaviours and assumptions that were previously unconscious. On top of that i feel it has brought me into contact with what Napoleon Hill calls 'infinite intelligence', what Terrence Mckenna calls 'the logos' and what many others talk and write about under different names. The mushrooms triggered ego death 'by accident'. I didn't plan it, i never read about it...and i can tell you, it wasn't a fun experience at all. My ego protested heavily, it said 'you need to go to a hospital, you're dying. There was a bad mushroom in the batch...'. Now i know this is a normal reaction, but at the time it scared the shit out of me. After ego death, the beauty and insights started to come through and it was one of the most beautiful experiences of my life.
 

 

[xXxXx]

I've tried psilocybe cubensis and LSD. LSD was more mild on the body, probably because it's a pure substance and not a substance mix like a mushroom. I felt an extreme "oneness" on LSD, it was comforting and i felt love for every being on earth.

In my opinion, if the dosage is high enough, your mental filters will break down and you will experience a sort of "ego-death", but in such a way, that it is overwhelming and very hard to cope with, conclusion is i learned much more from meditation and mindfullness than from all the trips i had.

It was impossible for me to integrate the experiences i had into my life/philosophy because you certainly are intoxicated when using this stuff, it does not feel clean, i didn't feel that i have done my body and mind a favor and the cost/benefit wasn't worth it.

Through mindfullness and meditation the experience is clean, the knowledge you gain is gradually evolving and you grow with practice, much more rewarding than a trip. But certainly there are people who gained knowledge from using this stuff, or else there would be no tradition using mushrooms in Peru or Ayahuasca in Brazil.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Locooig

[Peter J]

First time i tried LSD, it did it because i was curious, and wanted to know what it was like. I did ALOT of reserach before doh! And when i tried It, it blew my mind! After that i watched documentary, and read even more about all kinds of psychedelics drugs. Today i`ve had my fear dose of different kinds of psychedelica. And i have to say that am a fan of the natural psychedelics like mushrooms. And we have this specially strong type, that grows in Norway that is waaay stronger then any LSD I ever tried.
What I find funny is the way people describe how it feels like to be enlightened, really look alot like what it feels like when am on the shrooms. Everythins is perfect just being. Complete Peace.  Just sitting on my couch stairing out in the room doing nothing feels like Heaven on Earth. Just inhaling feels insanely good.  You have this euphoric feelings swimming through your body..
And I have many times wonderes if that is how it feels to be enlightened.
Because if it is, then wow how bad do I want to get there.

 

On 11.2.2016 at 8:02 PM, Fishy said:

It wont make an addiction in fact most usually when taken you do not want to take it for a while because of it intense experience.  To me it has changed my perspective on life for a longer time. The time after a trip and reflecting on it is just as important as the trip itself. Digest what u experienced. It can make u wanna change your life, maybe it's just if u have a very intense deep experience like I had. It can shoe u yourself in a very different light, make u face ur demons But i wont recommend doing it often, like Alan Watts said its like a phone call when u get the message u hang up afterwards.

I can related to this. Changed my point of view about life for sure. And  me as well dont feel like taking it for some time after I`ve tripped, because it`s just so much to prosess..
It blows your mind, and should not be taken lihgtly.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Peter J

[Arman]

On 11/02/2016 at 3:36 AM, Fishy said:

Those sideeffects mostly comes because u don't face and accept what is happening and the now and react with fear which is muliplied.

Sometimes. However sometimes you can be bound to an awful experience simply because the tides of eternity decide to kick your ass that day.

 

[David1]

On 11-2-2016 at 7:33 PM, Rufus said:

Personal conclusions.
Aside of the funny hallucinations that comes with Psychedelic drugs, YES, it kills or reduces the Ego, but for brief moments, we become relaxed and loving for a while with some funny perception effects, but when the effect goes away, the ego is back and sometimes it's even stronger, and life will turn into hell again, you will go back to pay your taxes and go to your crappy job and remember who awful your life is, so you will want to consume more drugs to go back to that state.. it will become an addiction, not to mention how much you damage you are causing your body and brain, and how much suffering you are causing to your family, and the people around you.

It disolves your ego for a moment yes. You can not function as a human being without an ego. You need an ego in every day life. What psychedelics do, is they expand your consciousness. The unconscious processes of the mind become conscious. The funny hallucinations and patterns you see, and this is just my personal speculation, are the mathemathical functions your brain performes all the time. But under the effect of psychedelics you become conscious of them. It will most certainly not become an addiction. In fact, psychedelics have been used to cure addictions. Psychedelics do not cause damage to your body or brain. Two cups of coffee cause more damage than a strong dose of psychedelics. What you are saying is all lies fed by the establishment. You have to know the history of psychedelics and why they made it illegal. Back in the '60 LSD and other psychedelics were legal. What happened was that people turned against the war hungry government...massive protests against war. Imagine a massive self developement outbreak...people quiting their boring jobs, joining communities, caring for -and loving eachother, protesting against war...an explosion of art and creativity. This would scare the shit out of government. That's exactly what happened in the 60's. That's why psychedelics are illegal. Not because they are harmful.

[Rufus]

@David1 True and I am aware of that, politics and capitalism are playing the biggest role in banning Psychedelics, 
But does it do harm in a way or another? if not chemically or because of overdosing, there is still a great chance to cause physical harm, or extreme panics because of bad trips at least between stupid, compulsive and un-experienced people.

I'm not saying no to Psychedelics, it's up to you if you know what you are doing, many people just don't. it's a personal responsibility in the time being, you cannot generalize it.. at least at this moment of our evolution on this planet, We are not ready yet for this move, If I was ruling a country I would work on raising the consciousness and the educational systems first for several generations, before I ever discuss legalizing drugs.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Rufus

[jordanhandrew]

Hi I'm curious to see what people think of the enlightenment "process" through drugs that effect your psyche like cannabis, mushrooms, LSD 25 and DMT. I'm am aware that most drugs are used for stimulation, friction, or ("happiness"\excitement), and are illegal and can cause health problems. What if they could be used to give your enlightenment a boost? Ive experimented with all the drugs that i have listed and have had profound spontaneous realizations with almost all of them. I wouldn't consider it enlightenment because the feeling of contentment dissolves as i go sober, but I still carry some of the profound realizations( which have been very beneficial in my enlightenment work) to this day. I expect this topic to be shunned fairly fast, so please be opened minded. I'm not looking for an excuse to justify harsh drug use or even regulatory use. I just feel that these drugs are more than just obstacles in the enlightenment process and would love to hear what this community thinks about it.