Is Vegetarianism the right way to go?

[PlayOnWords]

I know about the lion and it's desire to kill and eat. And how since we are all one, there is no real right and wrong.

In my own perspective, it seems like God gave us the ability to eat other animals, but it is not necessarily the highest way of being.

Because humans have a herbivorous digestive system and so forth. This would lead one to believe that animal meat should only be consumed as and when needed, eg: being stranded in a forest. This is a fundamental rule in the Hare Krishna religion.

I am a vegetarian, primarily thanks to an LSD trip that showed me this is the way to go. Was a meat eater my entire life beforehand.

What do you think?

[Thought Art]

I went plant based because I felt it was the most holistic.

[Cathal]

if you want real answers instead of validation seeking watch dominion on yt

[Nos7algiK]

I went vegetarian for the past 4 and a half years of my life. Only recently am I slowly switching back to eating meat. My original thought was empathy towards animals and the hope it would bring greater health, not that I was unhealthy in the first place though.

But, the more I go down the path the more I realize how diet itself is just a polarizing concept and in the grand scheme of things eating animals only matters in a relative sense.

The more ideas I have that I need to do " X " in order to be spiritual or close to God the further away from that actual self I get and any happiness that is generated by the variables I'm latching onto in life(diets) is solely created by myself and not the diet itself. If this is the case this happiness can and should be able to be generated regardless except in extreme situations.

With that being said we should always do what we personally feel comfortable. The mind itself is a very powerful construct and regardless of the actuality behind most concepts in reality it's strictly dependent on how you personally wish to perceive it.

I'll also add that I went vegetarian because of my trips though it was something I've contemplated as a child. I also went back to eating meat because of later trips in my life as well. I rarely craved meat when I did make the change, so this isn't a manifestation of my cravings and me trying to justify it thought some LSD trip. But, rather the realization I should be more open to experiences rather than labeling them spiritual or not.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Nos7algiK

[Thought Art]

Move to health and nutrition section

[Vincent S]

Been eating plant-based for almost 9 years now. And what I have gathered so far:

From the Absolute Perspective: Consciousness Is Eating Consciousness. No matter meat or veg.
But in the Relative: If the finite self knows that: Whatever it is eating, Is Itself: A sense of guilt may-be felt.
Now, I do actually feel bad when Im eating an apple or a carrot sometimes. Because I can see that I am
eating myself. A part of me: Is giving itself up: For another part of me to eat.
I couldnt see this when I was a on an animal-based diet. Because, to me, (then) Its was just "Food"

Days when I take LSD and meditate all day long: I have such a hard time eating anything. I rather drink water and just breathe.
Even If I sit down to eat late at night, when the trip is about to subside: Like 1 blueberry is like eating 3 meals.
I just see and feel Infinity, in just that one tiny blueberry. I feel full from Consciousness Itself. It kinda feels like im forcing myself
to eat anything.

There was like 10 different reasons for me switching to a plant-based diet.
Now, after all the different diets and iterations I have been through. I cant say that I regret anything.
I feel absolutely fantastic. I love this "lifestyle" if you could call it that.
But I do want to emphasize that (in my opinion) You are not "healthy", just because you are a Vegetarian/Vegan.
Some Vegan food alternatives/substitutes are not better, if not worse than the meat products they want to replace.


Conscious Eating is what I advocate for. That can be done both as a meat/non-meat eater.
Listen to your body, your direct experience whenever you are eating with Consciousness. Dont eat while you watch TV.
Make your eating a meditation habit. Try to feel in to what the tastes and textures are. How does it feel in your mouth (please dont
take that in the wrong way).
Slow down your eating, and understand the process. Of course you dont have to. But if you are after Understanding and being
Conscious/Here And Now: Show some respect for the processes of consumption.
If you are fine with what you are eating, you are fine.
But if you have a sense that its time to try something new, or that a part of you feels like whatever you are eating is not diverse
or fun to eat anymore. Listen to that feeling, it might lead to some great places

People are different. People view life and everything within: Very Differently. Infinity is Diverse in every Direction or Dimension.
But from my pov and pref: Its not Sustainable for the (relative) planet, or our health, took keep on eating something we did in the
Cave-Days.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Vincent S

[Terell Kirby]

I would base a decision on going vegetarian / vegan solely on the question of will it make my body the most healthy .. so not really ecologically based.

It just so happens that most things that are healthy for us are also good for the ecosystem .. but it can be irritating dealing with vegan / vegetarian crusaders and their ideology on responsible living.

They can be just as moralistic as a fundamentalist religious person.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Terell Kirby

[Terell Kirby]

48 minutes ago, BenG said:

That's a bit harsh don't you think? Their intentions are totally different.

Not really .. a fundamentalist Christian assumes people go to Hell for not following the ten commandments ..

Vegetarian/vegan crusaders can assume those will go to Hell for eating meat, and consuming animal products. 

Although it's not in a literal sense, there is this notion of absolute good and evil .. which is false thinking.

[Danioover9000]

@Terell Kirby @PlayOnWords

19 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

Not really .. a fundamentalist Christian assumes people go to Hell for not following the ten commandments ..

Vegetarian/vegan crusaders can assume those will go to Hell for eating meat, and consuming animal products. 

Although it's not in a literal sense, there is this notion of absolute good and evil .. which is false thinking.

   Add to that, the industry would adapt far quicker than people think. Agriculture of crops need workable lands, meaning we still will be clearing wild forests for crop fields, water pumps are still needed to hydrate crop fields, which is extracted through a series of piping and water tanks, spray pesticides to manage pest control on an industrial farming scale, and machinery to water, seed, make more crop rows, process in factories and deliver to supermarkets. If we're talking about vegetarianism diet on a mass scale, we would see only a slight reduction to climate change negativity instead of the drastic slowing down of climate change.

   No comment on the moral anguish some Vegans go through psychologically to maintain their diet.

   Golden principle to follow: Listen to your body, mind and emotions  when being in a diet, and change based on your own mind and body, not on other people's stories.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Danioover9000

[Terell Kirby]

20 minutes ago, BenG said:

Do you live life without any ideas of right and wrong, good and evil, positive and negative?

Key word: Ideas .. which are grounded in nothing.

I have my standards of right and wrong, but the difference between me and the typical moralist is that I understand they are my standards and mine alone.

Fundamentalist and crusaders of all kinds miss this point .. their ideology blinds them.

Moralism is founded upon the notion that everyone should have your level of standards .. which is delusional.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Terell Kirby

[Terell Kirby]

2 minutes ago, BenG said:

That's valid in some respects. Just out of curiosity, where exactly do you draw the line? 

Are we going full anarchy, or are you just advocating a loosely defined "live and let live" attitude?

“Live and let live” societies will never be tenable, humans are too selfish for that lol.

I propose looking at things systematically. The raw truth is that many (especially Americans) love their meat and animal products. Not to mention the poor underdeveloped countries that can’t afford quality health food.

You’ll start to see changes when the sheer amount of health issues such as obesity, high cholesterol, diabetes and cancer are widespread to where the majority agrees that it isn’t sustainable for survival..which is all most people care about.

Ecological health comes second to survival for most..humans have to learn the hard way before advancing to something higher. Best to be an example of a healthy Being in your personal life and not press it on others.

[Danioover9000]

@Vincent S

5 hours ago, Vincent S said:

Been eating plant-based for almost 9 years now. And what I have gathered so far:

From the Absolute Perspective: Consciousness Is Eating Consciousness. No matter meat or veg.
But in the Relative: If the finite self knows that: Whatever it is eating, Is Itself: A sense of guilt may-be felt.
Now, I do actually feel bad when Im eating an apple or a carrot sometimes. Because I can see that I am
eating myself. A part of me: Is giving itself up: For another part of me to eat.
I couldnt see this when I was a on an animal-based diet. Because, to me, (then) Its was just "Food"

Days when I take LSD and meditate all day long: I have such a hard time eating anything. I rather drink water and just breathe.
Even If I sit down to eat late at night, when the trip is about to subside: Like 1 blueberry is like eating 3 meals.
I just see and feel Infinity, in just that one tiny blueberry. I feel full from Consciousness Itself. It kinda feels like im forcing myself
to eat anything.

There was like 10 different reasons for me switching to a plant-based diet.
Now, after all the different diets and iterations I have been through. I cant say that I regret anything.
I feel absolutely fantastic. I love this "lifestyle" if you could call it that.
But I do want to emphasize that (in my opinion) You are not "healthy", just because you are a Vegetarian/Vegan.
Some Vegan food alternatives/substitutes are not better, if not worse than the meat products they want to replace.


Conscious Eating is what I advicate for. That can be done both as a meat/non-meat eater.
Listen to your body, your direct experience whenever you are eating with Consciousness. Dont eat while you watch TV.
Make your eating a meditation habit. Try to feel in to what the tastes and textures are. How does it feel in your mouth (please dont
take that in the wrong way).
Slow down your eating, and understand the process. Of course you dont have to. But if you are after Understanding and being
Conscious/Here And Now: Show some respect for the processes of consumption.
If you are fine with what you are eating, you are fine.
But if you have a sense that its time to try something new, or that a part of you feels like whatever you are eating is not diverse
or fun to eat anymore. Listen to that feeling, it might lead to some great places

People are different. People view life and everything within: Very Differently. Infinity is Diverse in every Direction or Dimension.
But from my pov and pref: Its not Sustainable for the (relative) planet, or our health, took keep on eating something we did in the
Cave-Days.

   Well said.

[Loba]

I think so.  Based on my experiences, consciousness does seem to want to move in the direction of using less animal products, from what spirits have told me.  But I do not follow this advice because I find that I have a hard time not eating meat; but would prefer to not eat it at all if I could manage to get through it.  I tried a few times as a teen/early 20's adult.  Would like to try again sometime soon.  I can go veggie but not full vegan.  

My guide says that animals are lower souls and that we used to be, and still are animals.  That we should be treating them as younger siblings and taking from them as little as possible, that we should be helping our own kind and different species gain awareness, that Love teaches them about having a sense of self; but we exploit and eat them instead.  Or, just use animals in the wrong ways except for some lucky pets.  Love is the answer always.  As best as we can.

There are some people who need that diet, though and get unhealthy on veggie or vegan and so we need to work on options for everyone.  Maybe it starts with how people eat as children?  I'm just learning about some of this today, as it piqued my interest.. so just throwing out experiences and suggestions and hoping to learn more about this topic from others.

I do think the vegetarians are right, even as a meat eater.

What was your LSD experience like, and how did it change your views?

[The Zen Viking]

I've been in and out of the vegan community, but ended up eating as much locally sourced, organic high quality foods as possible, I've taken a holistic approach. High-carb grain/bean/lentil diet mess me and many others up. After like 10 years of experimenting with nutrition and health in general, I've made a good diet that's plant-based, wild-caught fish once a week on heavy workout days, and with eggs (as I think we still can live in synergy with hens, even if we stop killing them after 35 days for meat). The industry around pigs and cattle is a fucking mess, and milk has poor bioavailability. Around 100g of protein/day in periods of high intensity with healthy fats, in a low-carb framework. I fast 20 hours a day, so the food I end up eating is more expensive per unit, but higher quality with better bioavailability, so I still end up getting more out of my money. Bioavailability is a HUGE factor here, as with something like eggs with an amazing 91% bioavailability you can eat less and get more out of it. Milk and grains with around 20 % BA cause 80% to make a mess in your body and end up just as shit instead of energy, including all the energy wasted moving the shit and gas that can't be used through your body.

• Even if the whole world went vegan and we left the nature to itself, there would still be fluctuations between the species which would also lead to suffering. Humans can be herders of the Earth and keep things in balance, and reduce meat eating to what the different animal herds need to be healthy. At the same time the amount of meat we eat today is out of control.
• Realistically lab-grown meat will be available before the governments can build the systems required for EVERYONE to be vegan. The vegan choices today are few, poor in nutrition and too expensive. It's not just the individual that has to make the change, but also the food industry and governments. Vegan "cheese" is full of sugar and other ingredients with poor nutrition and bioavailability. 
• Many vegans become zealots and end up with just a new moralizing identity that becomes just as "wrong" in the opposite direction, holistically nothing has improved. Of course there is value in someone having an extreme view, then the conservatives comes in debating, and they meet on the middle and holistically you "advance". But it ends up being about what makes them feel good, and not what's healthy for the planet in the big picture.
• There is also the issue of variety on a vegan diet. If you're going to eat only locally sourced vegan foods in Scandinavia (where I'm from), I would end up with just potatoes, oats and celeriac, a bunch of carbs that would mess up our health. Not even 3% of land in Norway can be used to grow vegetables. It's not sustainable either to transport all the different types of veggies around the whole planet to all the different countries. The richer countries would take everything for themselves as we are not working together as one species yet. Some places the LOCALS can't even get avocados because the rich countries buy EVERYTHING, they can't even get their own food!
• New technology and "superfarm skyscrapers" with thousands of % increase in efficiency where each country can grow their own stuff might change this debate.
• And of course its the metaphysics, it's all just a gallery of consciousness, different states of consciousness. We should reduce suffering for ourselves, but as long as we treat the animals well and they live healthy lives, there is no great evil being done if a chicken is walks around chilling and blissing out, and then dies instantly. Vegans put this "human ego filter" on top of animals, like we're taking away their aspirations for the future and attachments to memories of the past. Taking away a mothers calf is one thing, just ending it instantly for a chicken or fish chilling out after several years (much longer than today) is another.
• Some vegan youtubers pose this dream where they grow everything themselves, but people do not see that this is only possible with a farm and near the equator, try that with 8 billion people living in all kinds of climates, good luck.

Edited January 19, 2022 by The Zen Viking

[DocWatts]

I approach the issue from a harm reduction approach, as in I'm almost completely vegetarian / vegan (in that I may have something with cheese in it maybe once or twice week), but will make occasional exceptions for the circumstances I find myself in. For example if I'm a guest in someone's house and they're serving me a meal. Seeing that I'm the only vegetarian in my family, this is a compromise that I've decided to make to maintain social relationships.

Approaching the issue from a stance of moral purity never made much sense to me. Just by existing and meeting your survival needs in an industrial society you're contributing to climate change and habitat destruction. The goal should be able to find a balance between meeting your own survival needs and being socially responsible.

Being a vegetarian or vegan requires time and money, and only really became sustainable for me once I had access to both after landing a stable middle class job. Our culture subsidizes food that's terrible for both our bodies and the environment (that's aside from the ethical cost of factory farming), so breaking out of that takes extra effort and resources.

Edited January 19, 2022 by DocWatts

[Fearless_Bum]

The right way to go is people taking responsibility and being their own authority with what food feels right for them. 

When we don't do this we turn diets into ideologies, hence vegetarianISM.