Mmkay's Heavy Metal Chelation Journal

[mmKay]

- Feel free to comment, ask questions, give unasked advice, use this post for resources, etc. ( all under your own risk and judgement )

 

Basically, the idea is that I'll be documenting and sharing my journey of chelation.

I'm a noob for now, but I expect to gather a decent chunk of understanding throughout this year. 

This has been on my to do list for over a year now, and I've been motivated recently  by Leo dropping the long awaited episode on chelation released for my birthday ?.

Sadly, the episode is not as detailed as I'd like it to be and I'm afraid he may have forgotten some crucial information.

But if there is time to whine, there is time to roll up my digital sleeves and get to work and research. 

Let's hope my journal doesn't end up being a Brian Bander's Suicide note 2.0  (RIP) 

Edited Friday at 09:42 PM by Davino
Title name changed due to question mark symbols appearing during the crash week. User wanted to have the proper title back.

[mmKay]

I've been reading through Andy Cutler's Heavy metal Chelation Facebook Group (ACC FB group for short) for a few weeks on and off and I've watched Leo's video on Heavy Metal Chelation about 4 times for now I have a basic understanding of chelation.

That being said, I have tons of questions and I'm overall confused. 

I'll be recompiling and answering them one by one below. 

@Something Funny it seemed funny at the time

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by mmKay

[mmKay]

Where to start?

The first thing that comes to mind is : Am I toxic? 

The intuitive anwser is YES, definitely.

So much that I even thought about skipping the first two urine tests to save the 200 ish  bucks , BUT (1) : One of the research papers that Leo linked to mentioned that DMSA harmed the mental performance of mice if they did not have any heavy metals in them while Chelating. 

BUT ( 2 ) in one of Leo's recent posts someone was arguing with him about the validity of urine tests to what he responded that Urine testing is the best what we've got for now. Blood tests are not accurate and there is not much validity to hair test interpretation. And the results are valuable :

[mmKay]

Reasons I believe I'm toxic AF : 

First of all, insidious gradual brain fog, trouble focusing for long periods of time, sloppy memory, leaky gut, lack of motivation and laziness & procrastination. Pretty bad sleep quality, dark circles under my eyes, similar nerve numbness on both forearms ( similar to what Leo described) and much more. 

I have a history of breathing in concrete dust ( near fatal hospitalization at the age of 3 ) , living close to main roads ( air pollution) life long passive smoker ( both parents and lots of friends smoke) . " [...] Smoking cigarettes is another common way cadmium enters our bodies. "

Seafood used to be my favorite meat throughout MY WHOLE LIFE ( too bad for me ? ) 

Teachers , friends and even parents made me drink tap water. 

Worst of all, for the last 4 years I've been eating at the restaurant I work at just to notice they cook the rice in tap water. And that's what I've been having for EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. 

That's a killing blow and the beginning of it all.

Edited December 19, 2021 by mmKay

[mmKay]

21 hours ago, mmKay said:

BUT (1) : One of the research papers that Leo linked to mentioned that DMSA harmed the mental performance of mice if they did not have any heavy metals in them while Chelating. 

[,,,] A recent report [43] found that the use of DMSA could improve the learning, attention, and arousal regulation of lead-exposed animals. However, that same paper also found that high-dose administration of DMSA could cause lasting cognitive damage in rats that were not lead exposed, so DMSA should only be used when lead or similar toxic metals are present.

Source : One of the research papers linked by Leo under his Chelation video

Conclusion : Better spend the 200 bucks and don't skip the urine tests being a rushed cheap-ass.

 

By the way, where do I even get my urine test done here In europe? I'll have to research that. 

[ . . . ] 1 hour later . . .

Basically I found nothing on Spanish Google besides a 75€ only Mercury and Lead test. All the rest of tests are hair, feces, blood or nail tests.

• I found this UK PRE and POST DMSA test for 300€ +. It is specifically designed for DMSA. It seems to be way too expensive. And probably that doesn't take in account the shipping. I'll keep looking.

 

• Bingo! I had the idea to check the ACC FB group for resources. They only link to Hair tests but I picked one of the UK labs, scanned their site for more avaliable tests and in fact they DO urine tests at a reasonable price as well. ( there is a Different test, a little more expensive that provides more information - HERE )

Either of these two tests seems to be the best quality / price yet. Both mention the posibility of using a chelator to compare the excretion of heavy metals by contrast.

 

The second lab also offers a " METHYLATION PLASMA PROFILE " I don't know what it is but I do remember " Methylation "being mentioned quite a lot IN the ACC group and I supose it has something to do with checking your " detox pathways " working properly. I may be absolutely wrong but I'll leave this here as well.

 

EDIT : Good info on "Methylation Pathways"

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by mmKay

[mmKay]

5 hours ago, Droo_ said:

@mmKay Do you struggle with insomnia at all? I read that heavy metals could also cause this.

I wouldn't say that I suffer " insomnia " where I can't fall asleep or I repeatedly wake up, but I intuit that my sleep quality is far from decent.

Sleep is complicated because there are many, many factors, but it's something I've been looking into for quite some time.

To feel good I need to nap a few times throughout the day which is definately not ideal. Also sometimes I sleep 10 hours and I simply do not feel rested. Again, it could be many things, starting with improper sleep hygiene. 

Sometimes my sleep is decent.

 

BUT : Recently I got a cyst under my ear. I read online that Tumeric is good against inflamation and a good home remedy etc. etc.

 

I took two pills of my organic tumeric - ginger - black pepper supplement and let me tell you, I just had two really bad nights in a row.

I'm talking nightmares and sleeping 10+ hours and waking up not rested at all.

 

Why do I tell you this? because I made the connection with THIOLS :

 

[...] " Turmeric is really good at raising thiol levels."

[...] "Thiols are important because they have the ability to move mercury, but a weak bond such as that in a single thiol will move mercury but not excrete it."

[...] "1/3 to 1/2 of mercury toxic people are sensitive to thiols. This results in a lot of misery for mercury toxic folks. Symptoms can include headaches, fatigue, gut/digestive issues, depression, high blood pressure, mood swings, and exacerbation of a person's regular mercury symptoms. It is, in essence, redistribution of mercury."

 

So, I may be somewhat Thiol Sensitive. " [...] Thiol intolerance cannot be judged without a thiol exclusion and challenge trial. "

This may be important because " [...] People who are thiol sensitive tend to need lower chelator doses and are able to increase more quickly as they minimize their thiol intake via food and supplements."

Decent info on Thiols, Link borrowed from ACC group.

Edited December 19, 2021 by mmKay

[mmKay]

What's the next step?

I have claimed to be toxic ( by intuition ). I have choosen ( to do soon ) an urine test from all the tests ( hair  / blood / urine . . . )  ACC recommends a hair test but there is little value to it as spoken about before : 

 

 

 

The most valuable info here is the " To make the urine test safer you can do the test and then go immediately into a 3 day Cutler detox cycle. This way any metals your test dose stirred up are detoxed. That is my preferred way. " 

He said he forgot to mention his in his video and it's quite crucial, so take care.

Edited December 19, 2021 by mmKay

[mmKay]

Sourcing : 

DMSA ( Dimercaptosuccinic acid) . This is the one Leo recommends in his video. It's from Livingsupplements.com and it's also the site that ACC FB group links to. It's shipped from south africa ( cheers from Omicron lol ) 

UK provider. ( more expensive )

The one from Livingsupplements.com is the cheapest around and they deliver world-wide. If you order 4+ you get a discount and the price is basically 25€ per 45x100mg pill bottle. Downside : shipping is 4-8 weeks.

Quality is assured though. You can also grab ALA ( Alpha Lipoic Acid )  from there or any other website that sells your desired dose, even AMAZON! but IDK about the dose I need to choose yet. I think about starting with DMSA only at first and after a month or more start slowly implementing ALA. ( ALA also chelates heavy metals from your brain , DMSA doesn't )

 

If you are in Europe and want a faster shipping and dont mind paying more then Leo also labeled this DMSA as " seems decent enough " ?‍♂️

 

These are all 100MG per pill. If for any reason you're going to grab a different ammount then just scroll through the website.

 

The formula Leo gave was 30mg x bodyweight in KG  - PER DAY - DIVIDED IN 8 DOSES, because you take a dose of the chelator every 3 hours ( there are 8 chunks of 3 hours in a day, aka 24 hour period )

Is that dangerous? People on ACC FB group recommend all sorts of doses, most of them way, WAY lower.

 

But, It's backed up by this paper that Leo linked to.

 

A good excerp : " [...] It has been demonstrated that DMSA 30 mg/kg/day is significantly more effective than either 10 or 20 mg/kg/day both in terms of enhancing lead excretion and reducing blood lead concentrations. 21 The same study also showed that the typical rebound increase in blood lead concentration after DMSA therapy is largely complete within 1 week of the last dose. For these reasons, DMSA 30 mg/kg/day was administered to our patients and a break of at least 1 week was interposed between each course to allow time for redistribution of lead from bone to soft tissues and blood. "

 

For me that would mean 30 x 65 ( my bodyweight in KG ) = 1950 MG / day. We divide that by 8 because you are suposed to take a dose of DMSA or DMSA + ALA every 3 hours during your 72 hour round to avoid redistribution of heavy metals before they are excreted and therefore unnecesary damage.

That would be 243,75 MG of DMSA every 3 hours for me, even during the night .

BUT leo's weight is 77 KG and his dose is 2.310 per day ( 288,75 every 3 hours ) but in his demo he only takes 200 MG per day ( not sure the reason for this. Most likely the unwillingness to purchase different dosage pills,  or  the dose being " high enough already "

 

Good info from ACC Group : " [...] If you feel better ON round, try to extend your rounds an extra day each time. Take 3 days off round minimum. Taking as much time off as on is recommended. " 

Edited December 19, 2021 by mmKay

[mmKay]

Next step?

...

I'm toxic? Guess so ✅

What to do about it? ➡ DMSA, ALA.  Do ACC Detox protocol or Leo's guidelines.

Where to buy chelators ? ➡ Here

...

Next step would be researching how much to start with so that I know what dosages to buy. I'll check if the Urine test I chose has any guidelines. Otherwise I assume it would be 30mg x my bodyweight in KG  - per day -  ( in eight equal doses spaced out every 3 hours ) during three days and collect the urine twice as explained in Leo's video. once before taking DMSA and once after the first dose.

[...] Some time later [...]

It seems that there are clear instructions for how to perform both of the urine tests, PRE DMSA and POST DMSA. But no dosages.

ACC FB group does not stand for Urine provoked tests therefore I assume there is not much information I can gather from there  ( I'll check anyways )

Looks that for now, the dosages are as we explained above and then move into a 3 day ACC protocol.

 

I just feel that may be a little too harsh ?

 

I'll ask on the forum why was Leo taking 200MG of DMSA instead of that 280 MG he was suposed to be taking ( as the proper result of applying the formula )

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by mmKay

[mmKay]

17 hours ago, mmKay said:

I just feel that may be a little too harsh ?

 

I'll ask on the forum why was Leo taking 200MG of DMSA instead of that 280 MG he was suposed to be taking ( as the proper result of applying the formula )

 

We got an anwser bois:

 

[mmKay]

Finish 5 - 10 only DMSA rounds and then start progressively adding ALA. That's the recommended plan for now.

[mmKay]

I posted this few months ago: 

 

I was thinking about possible sources that may have intoxicated me with heavy metals throughout my life, and I came up with : 

Tap water: Cooking, cleaning dishes, showering, rinsing mouth after brushing teeth, even making coffee and I remember my teachers at school telling me to drink tap water.

food: Low quality vegetables, fruits and meat possibly poluted and grown in low quality soil that use the crappiest " water " possible. Meat soup where the bones leak the accumulated heavy metals. Lot's of fish and seafood. Mostly fed tuna by my parents and I allways loved shellfish ( f*ck me )

Hygiene products : mostly deodorant ( aluminum )

Cookware : I remember keeping the trashiest most scratched teflon coated pans for so long. Same with teflon coated sandwich grills, and teflon coated rice cookers. I'm concerned that even though I only use the rice cooker to steam food, it still may leak teflon.

 

And now the biggest one and the one that made me create this post : Traffic.

For as long as I can remember, I've allways lived no further than 200 metres from a big road with 24/7 traffic. Sometimes even closer than that, for years and years . It just hit me today as I was going to the gym that the " fresh air " that I'm getting on my nice morning walk is not fresh at all , but possibly poluted with all kinds of heavy metals like lead and other poisonous gases.

[mmKay]

Today was good. I found out LOTS of practical info.

 

I found out that the UK DMSA provider also has lots of good supplements ( like the Adrenal suplement Andy Cutler recommends ) 

 

The adrenal cortex suplement is kind of expensive but I'll try it out anyways. I have never done any adrenal gland testing, and it's suposed to be taxed a lot during heavy metal chelation , so as long as the suplmenet  doesn't have any potential negative side effects I'll go for it .

 

Another heavily taxed organ would be the Liver.

Some of the most recommended supplements by Andy are " Milk Thistle " and " Artichoke Extract "

These are just the brands I picked. Remember I'm a " noob " learning so they may not be the exact dosage but I'm trying to be wise here and follow the recommendations.

EDIT : Woops ! turns out the Milk Thistle I bought isn't it. I'll have to send it back. It's missing the " 250-750 mg of silymarin " part. I found a different one that has it .

Correct " Milk Thistle Extract " 

 

Besides that, I ordered ONE of  THE BOOKs. Now I feel I'll have some more guidance besides asking random forum members and scrolling through the facebook group  ?. Just about 25 € , totally worth. 

 

I also purchased the following : 

Two DMSA x100MG ( 50 capsules each ) 

Two DMSA x50MG ( 90 capsules each )

One DMSA x25MG ( 90 capsules ) ( I',m thinking about starting with one 25MG pill every 3 hours for the rounds - to be researched more- )

One ALA x 12'5MG ( 90 capsules )  --- I just purchased this kind of randomly . I don't know if that's a safe starting dose but I think I read somewhere that it would be okay. Worst case scenario I'll just order a lower dosage ALA. But you gotta start somewhere and intuition was telling me this could do the job.

Adrenal Cortex ( already mentioned before )

And lastly, " Zinc Picolinate x50MG ( 120pills )  - thats not the brand Leo uses but it is the same dosage.

I then ordered " The Big 4 " from Amazon, which are supplements that help to protect, cope and negate the negative side effects of chelating.

That is:

Vitamin C ( Exact Leo's brand ),

- - -  EDIT : Since Leo takes one 500 MG pill every 3 hour chunk of the chelation round, and ACC recommends that you take all of these supplements both ON and OFF  round, I'll also purchase this same Vitamin C supplement but in a higher 1000MG dose, since ACC recommends only 4 doses , 4000 - 8000 MG per day in total. I'll be doing the 500MG every 3 hour ON round ( as Leo shows ) and the " just 4 doses a day " with the big pills , as ACC recommends.

I don't think this is a big of a deal, but I just felt like it may be better this way.

 

Magnesium Citrate -  Not the same, but seems to be decent enough -. I already regularely take Magnesium Glycinate ( used by Leo )  and I know I tolerate it well ( under 300MG, otherwise I get mild stomach cramps and possibly diharrea ). I hope Magnesium Citrate is not " magnesium Shitrate " for me as some people have reported lol )

Vitamin E ( Exact Leo's brand )

Zinc Picolinate -  that I purchased off Mandimart - since the one Leo showed isn't to be found in EU, or I just haven't found it.

 

Also I purchased the Pill box - it's 31 slots since it's designed to be pill box for a whole month, but It seems to be perfect for chelation. Rather than purchasing four one week boxes, I can fill all the doses in this one " one month " container . ( 8 doses per day, per 4 days = 32 . I take the first dose by hand and all the rest are set in the box.

I plan to be doing 4 day rounds  ( and at least 4 day off ) so if the individual containers are big enough to fit in all the pills, this would be ideal.

Andy recommends that I'f you feel well ON round, stretch it one day further each time, as Longer rounds are BENEFICIAL if you can handle them well. Don't forget to rest an equal ammount too .

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by mmKay

[mmKay]

I found the DNA test that Leo recommended - "23andme" . It's a saliva test ( world-wide shipping ) for about 80 USD + shipping . With this you get access to your genes and you can look for certain gene mutations that may hinder heavy metal detox . If you got them, you can asume chelation is for you.

That's my understanding for now. - To be further researched -

 

Quote from Leo's video on Chelation :

 

7 hours ago, mmKay said:

"[...] So you can do some research into the genetics. It's a bit complicated and technical I won't go into it here but you can research the " MTHFR gene"  and various " methylation pathways".  You can even do a genetic test on yourself , something like " 23andme "-  which I've done - and then you can actually find the specific mutations you have of this " MTHFR gene " you can find specific snippets, and you can see based on your genetics  how susceptible are you to  heavy metal toxicity- And so I've actually looked at my own mutations and what i found is that I have a few of those mutations which make me more susceptible than let's say the average person and so that would explain for example why i have these problems more than maybe other members in my family or maybe the general population "

 

I don't think I'll be doing for that now. Already chunked my budged for this month with almost 400€ on chelation supplies, and thats without the 200€ on urine tests ( I'f I decide to do them )

Edited December 21, 2021 by mmKay

[mmKay]

Round Lenght Calculator ( From ACC Group ) I'll leave this here. Doesn't seem that useful for now ...?

 

--- I also shot a message to my dentist double checking for the material used for my dental implant. It's titanium and that's fine .

Edited December 21, 2021 by mmKay

[mmKay]

Good notes:

 " Start on the core 4 supplements  for at least 2 weeks before starting chelation.  " ➡ Link should work if you've joined ACC FB group. I'll use these links from now as it's really useful for reference.

" Chelators are dosed at the half life: " 

" When DMSA and ALA are used together the dose interval is every 3h or less (with the option of 2 x 4h stretches at night).  For example, every 2 hours is fine but every 5 hrs is NOT.) "

--- I'd rather just wake up more often and make sure not to screw up anything. So nope to the 2x4 stretches at night . ---

 

" [...] One of the things you can try if you are struggling with chelation is to take the chelators more frequently. It is somewhat common for people to feel a smoother chelation experience when they take ALA every 2 hours, DMSA every 2 or 3 hours, or DMPS every 6 hours. Whether this will help you or not is entirely individual and you will have to try it to find out what works for you. "

Edited December 21, 2021 by mmKay

[mmKay]

On 18/12/2021 at 7:02 PM, mmKay said:

Let's hope my journal doesn't end up being a Brian Bander's Suicide note 2.0  (RIP) 

I found the old thread.

 

This one is good to remember.

Edited December 21, 2021 by mmKay

[mmKay]

ON STARTING DOSES !! G O L D -- " Protocol Abbreviated " 

 

" [...] Starting dose depends on the severity of the illness. Those who are seriously sick or frail would start with a LOWER dose.

Always start with one chelator and find the appropriate dose for you before adding a second chelator.

A general suggestion for adults is to start at doses of 12.5 mg for trial rounds (frail adults start at 6.25 mg or even lower). 

                                              - - - My smallest DMSA pills are 25mg. I do have the 12.5 ALA ones. Should I buy the smaller  version ( DMSA ) ?  - To be researched - - -

[ . . .  ] If side effects are too much then stop the round and trial half that dose in the next round. If there are no side effects at all then the next round trial double the dose.

Once you find the dose where side effects are manageable, stick with that dose for several months before increasing.

Increases are then generally 50% of the current dose.

If you are using 2 chelators (ALA and DMSA or ALA and DMPS) only increase one chelator at a time and adjust to that dose before increasing the dose of the other chelator.

 

When you can chelate at 3 mg/kg doses of ALA without any side effects on or off round and there are no further improvements to your health conditions, chelate for another 6 months and you are done.

 

For DMPS and DMSA there is not much extra to be gained by going above 25 - 50 mg doses ... " - End of quote.

 

About that last statement, Leo's reference paper said that there are SIGNIFICANT improvements in chelation results in a dosage of 30mgxKG than lower ones. So this is basically what i'll be building up to.

Edited December 21, 2021 by mmKay

[Striving for more]

@mmKay I'm joining you on this challenge, thanks for reminder. 

 

[mmKay]

@Striving for more hey, long time no see. Just be extra careful since I remember you mentioned having mercury teeth work. Make sure you do the extra step of double checking everything and going slow and steady.

That being said, feel free to post and use my journal for info. 

Hope you're doin well. 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by mmKay