How To Tell A Girl That You Want To Split Paying For Dates

[electroBeam]

So when dating, from talking to other people, and from xp, in general 80% of women (and men) believe that men should pay for taking girls on a date. I have several problems with this, and (unfortunately) being someone who is overly emotionally invested in political affairs, I feel extremely uncomfortable with this sort of arrangement. My main reasons are:

- I feel like in 2017, women should have the opportunity to be independent, and pay for themselves at least occasionally. It symbolises a sense of freedom, that when they enter a relationship, instead of being restricted to what the man can afford, she can do her own thing to an extent.

- I'm already not a big fan of feminism, and for society to claim that women should have equal rights, while still shaming men for not being able to/wanting to pay 100% for a date, feels extremely unfair to me. A classical article, for which I strongly oppose, is this one

How do I tell someone I want to date, that I am truely attracted to them, but at the same time do expect financial support in a relationship to go both ways and not just 1 way, when paying for dates, without coming across as stingy or a cheap ass, or possibly turning them off in any way. 

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

So when dating, from talking to other people, and from xp, in general 80% of women (and men) believe that men should pay for taking girls on a date. I have several problems with this, and (unfortunately) being someone who is overly emotionally invested in political affairs, I feel extremely uncomfortable with this sort of arrangement. My main reasons are:

- I feel like in 2017, women should have the opportunity to be independent, and pay for themselves at least occasionally. It symbolises a sense of freedom, that when they enter a relationship, instead of being restricted to what the man can afford, she can do her own thing to an extent.

- I'm already not a big fan of feminism, and for society to claim that women should have equal rights, while still shaming men for not being able to/wanting to pay 100% for a date, feels extremely unfair to me. A classical article, for which I strongly oppose, is this one

How do I tell someone I want to date, that I am truely attracted to them, but at the same time do expect financial support in a relationship to go both ways and not just 1 way, when paying for dates, without coming across as stingy or a cheap ass, or possibly turning them off in any way. 

My husband and I were talking about this the other day, and he was telling me how he used to do it when he was dating. So, if he asked a woman out, he would say something like "Hey, I've got this one. But next time we go out we'll split." That way, he's honoring and showing that he's aware of the social expectation of paying for a person you invite out somewhere (and the traditional gesture of the man paying- because that's still an expectation of the dating world) and is capable of paying. But he also isn't opening the door to having the woman expect that he pays every single time, as this is unnecessary. Or if he bought a woman a drink, he would specify "this round's on me. Maybe you'll get the next one." 

What I've found is that, if you find a woman who's interested in you, you won't really have to worry about her expecting so much from you financially. This is especially true since you're so young, and most women your age are looking for fun but not really money. I see that as being more of a problem that pops up after people have established careers in the later 20s and 30s. Perhaps I'm wrong about this, but this has always been my perception. Bottom line, if she's not genuinely interested in you simply for your company, then don't go there. And you'll be able to tell if you're honest with yourself.

I've had two major relationships in my life, and I've found that a real relationship once it gets serious, you just sort of naturally pool your money together and there's not really a major emphasis on the distinction between my money vs their money. So, as long as you and your partner are making about the same amount of money and you have similar ethos regarding money, there probably won't be an unfairness issue. 

But on a different note, it would be rather duplicitous for a woman who identifies as a Feminist to expect men to adhere to traditional gender norms while allowing women to buck traditional gender norms, if they want to. I'm sure this happens, as there are dumb people in the Feminist movement, just as anywhere else. But I find that many schools of thought in Feminism actually addresses issues where men are shamed for not matching up to traditional masculine standards. Feminism is actually quite a diverse ideology. So, you can find Feminists who are really radical and believe that men and women shouldn't even co-exist together, and are very black and white in their thinking. Then you can find Feminists who recognize the gray areas of gender issues who see men's issues and women's issues as two interdependent sets of issues. 

But there are still gender expectations in the dating world. There probably always will be. It's just sort of par for the course. For example, if I go out on a first date with a man and he doesn't offer to pay, this is a red flag. Not because I think men should always pay or because I'm interested in him for his money. But because it could be a sign that he's unaware of social expectations or is unable to support himself. Maybe he's a Feminist who's all about equality of the sexes... but maybe he's just cheap and socially inept. But it also may be a red flag to him if I don't shave my legs and wear make-up for the date. Maybe I'm just not into that because I'm a Feminist who feels women shouldn't be obligated to engage in beauty regimes... or maybe I'm just a slob who doesn't care about the impression that I leave. But these are really only problems of the first month or so of a relationship. If a woman still expects a man to pay every time three months into the relationship, it would be just as crappy as if a man expected a woman to be all dolled up at all times of the day three months into the relationship. There's a natural period of relaxation into a relationship that occurs about two or three months in.

[SFRL]

@electroBeam did you find a girl or girls to go out on a date with now? 

Now should you pay for dates? 

The first date I say absolutely. Plan to spend 50 - 100 dollars as well. 

You are coming at it from the completely wrong angle man. You should not be making your money your first priority when you go dating. Your primary concern should be how to get her panties off. 

How are you getting her panties off? By being a fun guy and sexual escalation. 

When you are coming at her with this attitude that she should pay half, how much fun is that going to be for her? You are already creating problems/obstacles before the dating/relationship started. (And before her panties came off). 

Actually if she offers to pay on the first date, that's not necesairly a good sign. That may very well mean you are not getting a second date and she won't feel guilty by paying half. Or all of it for that matter. Or she is buying off any obligations to you. Because she thinks if you pay you may want sex in return. Either way she is holding out on sex. 

Now of course you should not always be paying for everything in the relationship. But the first three dates. Expect to pay. After that she should start paying for some things as well. 

Now on a side note if sex has not happened after three dates you may be having other issues. After three dates and no sex the chances of you ever getting any are dramatically dropping. 

By date four and she has not paid anything imagine this. If she says "let's get ice cream" after you took her to the movies you can say: "OK, are you paying?" In a nonchalant way and that's all there is to it. You can see her reaction then. 

Now also something to consider is her spending habits. For example if you date a girl who always pays half. But everytime the two of you hangout she racks up the bill to 150 dollars. Now everytime you hang out with her you are 75 dollars lighter. 

That way you are better off with a girl who is happy if you pay for both you and her ice-cream and you take her for a walk in the park. 

 

Edited January 2, 2017 by STC

[philosogi]

@STC @electroBeam or better yet, find one who you can talk to honestly so we don't have to keep playing these silly games.

[SFRL]

@philosogi I like games. I like videogames, I like board games, I like sports that's a game, I liked chasing women too. It's a fun game at the early stages. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by STC

[Birdcage]

if she doesn't offer to split the check or pay for the date, she wasn't taught well. If you don't pay for the dates you weren't taught well. its common courtesy. 

[Shin]

Just say it:

"I'm not the kind of guy who pay anything".

If she seemed interested before you drop that line, and suddenly isn't anymore, jackpot (she's either very close-minded or a gold-digger).

If she still want to date you, jackpot.

 

If you want a relationship that can last, honesty is a priority.

If you just want to fuck, there is other means, where you don't even have to pay 1 buck ...

 

 

Edited January 8, 2017 by Shin

[Birdcage]

12 hours ago, Shin said:

Just say it:

"I'm not the kind of guy who pay anything".

If she seemed interested before you drop that line, and suddenly isn't anymore, jackpot (she's either very close-minded or a gold-digger).

If she still want to date you, jackpot.

 

If you want a relationship that can last, honesty is a priority.

If you just want to fuck, there is other means, where you don't even have to pay 1 buck ...

 

 

 I disagree. I'm talking from a woman's pow; if a guy says 'I'm not a guy to pay for anything ' I would consider him cheap and of course that would change my feelings and thoughts about him. I would think that's the best he is ever going to be. Afterall dating is about getting to know the person and no woman with self respect would want to commit to someone like that. 

But I repeat, if she never offers to pay or at least tries to pay for smaller stuff like a coffee after the dinner date you payed for or surprise you with some plans(like buying tickets for both of you to a game or whatever you are into) few weeks or months into dating then yes, that's a red flag. That means that is the best you are going to get out of her. Just look for how much she is investing into the relationship. That will tell you a lot. If she is working minimum wage maybe she can't pay as much as you do but what you need to look for is the effort. 

[Hunter Arrington]

Courtship still exists whether we respect women or not. Telling someone this will be a 50 50 thing will bring up huge red flags, and probably IS a social red flag, in the beginning. It's all about her feeling comfortable to invest in the relationship as well, and that happens over time. Once a girl is really committed, one can expect many favors from the opposite side. 

[Shin]

14 hours ago, Birdcage said:

 I disagree. I'm talking from a woman's pow; if a guy says 'I'm not a guy to pay for anything ' I would consider him cheap and of course that would change my feelings and thoughts about him. I would think that's the best he is ever going to be. Afterall dating is about getting to know the person and no woman with self respect would want to commit to someone like that. 

But I repeat, if she never offers to pay or at least tries to pay for smaller stuff like a coffee after the dinner date you payed for or surprise you with some plans(like buying tickets for both of you to a game or whatever you are into) few weeks or months into dating then yes, that's a red flag. That means that is the best you are going to get out of her. Just look for how much she is investing into the relationship. That will tell you a lot. If she is working minimum wage maybe she can't pay as much as you do but what you need to look for is the effort. 

It's your opinion (and I respect it).

Mine is that if a woman doesn't want to pay her own shit, even at the first date, I don't see why we should try to get to know her.

 

If she thinks the guy is cheap, then so be it, it's a huge red flag for us too, because,

She's probably under total influence of her culture, closed-minded, anti-feminist, a gold-digger, and she could also project her insecurity about money like you said (which could lead to further problem ...).

 

I mean, there is so many women, everywhere, why would we bother with women who doesn't appeal to us ?

 

In my mind, men and women are equal, so that means everything is 50/50,

Now, If I gain way more money than her, and we're in couple for some months, of course I'm gonna pay her some big trip,

Like If I want to go do some parachute and she wants to, I won't ask her to pay 400$, that's just common sense.

 

Edited January 9, 2017 by Shin

[ajasatya]

@electroBeam just ask her what she thinks about splitting bills.

fuck social fear. you may die tomorrow.

[electroBeam]

Thanks guys for your responses, 

I appreicate your feedback, but I have decided to just take girls out on cheaper dates, and ask them to help pay for themselves after the 3rd date. 

Due to (oppressive and stupid notherless) social norms currently in our society.

 

And also STC's brilliant response

Edited January 10, 2017 by electroBeam
STC

[clytaemnestra]

It's a matter of culture and society as well.

When I lived in Germany I never got paid a drink and I never paid man a drink. Women and men are equal and that's a social norm. I prefer it this way, so I don't have a feeling that I owe something to someone. Sometimes after just one date I don't want to go out again with that person, so it's better to pay separately on a first date, so both are OK if it's first and last. Later after 5+ dates let's say, it's okay to take turns or so. I'm at the moment on Balkans and when I tell guy friends (I don't date at the moment) to split the bill, they're offended because they can't show their masculinity, machoness or whatsoever. I don't give a shit, when I want to split it, I split it. I explain them kindly my reasons to and if they don't accept I tell the waiter separate.

I've never been to US, so I can't contribute to conversation, assuming that you're from US and I really have no idea about dating American girls.

[clytaemnestra]

On 1/9/2017 at 6:36 AM, Birdcage said:

if a guy says 'I'm not a guy to pay for anything ' I would consider him cheap

if you sleep with him on a first date and he considers you cheap would you be offended?

[Armand]

Good luck doing that bro. It shows a woman you are too cheap to pay for her meal. I would not let my girl pay when we met.  She was stubborn and still got away with paying for her part a few times.

Ironically she does pay for most our food now. ha. I cover the bills and she saves up everything for us. Teamwork.

[Birdcage]

@clytaemnestra how is sleeping on a first date and paying for a meal the same? if a guy pays for a date he has the right to sleep with that woman? so paying equals sex? the last I checked that was called prostitution. 

I repeat, he does not have to pay. but if he doesn't make the effort,  it tells me he is cheap or considers paying for a meal a big thing. its not. It is just a meal, something you consume 3 times a day. Again if there are women around whose whole purpose is to get a free meal and will give sex in exchange, stay away from them. that's just sad.

If you don't have money for a restaurant, take her to the local hot-dog stand or to a park. 

Dating is about getting to know someone and giving them your time. she gives you her time, you give her your time and see how it goes. during that time given, I think there are a lot of more important things than 'who pays for dinner' such as do you get along well, what is she like, her goals, ways of thinking, the attraction, intellectual level, sense of humor....etc. 

You are both giving equally hence your time and energy.

about sleeping on a first date, I think there are no rules. you might want to sleep with a person on a first date or third or 10th. It depends on how you feel.  

[Shin]

If she can't pay for her own meal, how is not that being cheap too ?

 

[Birdcage]

17 hours ago, Shin said:

If she can't pay for her own meal, how is not that being cheap too ?

 

I think you should read what I wrote once more ?

[clytaemnestra]

On 1/15/2017 at 10:42 AM, Birdcage said:

It is just a meal, something you consume 3 times a day.

Sex is the same, it's just sex. You don't consume it 3 times a day, but once let's say if you're at the beginning. 

 

Still I think that both should respect each other for the first date and pay for their own meal. Maybe a man had to work hard to earn the money he has and I should let him spend his hour wage on me, what's one hour of hard work, and then friendzone him or tell him that I'm not interested? I'd never do it respecting him and his money (if he wants it's another thing, but I don't expect him to) and respecting myself and showing that I'm independent woman that can afford for herself what she wants without expecting anyone to pay anything (and then some women after one year expect new boots, then new cellphone...). 

[electroBeam]

On 12/01/2017 at 11:17 AM, clytaemnestra said:

I really have no idea about dating American girls.

Im from Australia actually, and australia is like germany.

The US is extremely conservative, they love their gender roles. When you go on the bus, its interesting to realize the public actually get pissed off with you if you dont offer a seat to a woman on the bus. That shocked me when i went there.

Im not sure what cultures these responders are from, but Australia is much more dutch than most of the countries on here. I paid for the girl i was dating on the first date, and she was suprised and expected to pay for herself...