Does a women’s body count matter?

[Preety_India]

@Ineedanswers

1 minute ago, Ineedanswers said:

@Preety_India since you are a girl do you mind if I ask you some questions? 

1) is it realistic to expect a girl to be a 20yr+ virgin in this day age? Most of my male friends come from very religious(mostly Islamic) backgrounds and they tell me not marrying a virgin is weired.i told them that’s its crazy and unreasonable to expect a girl to be a 20year old virgin in this day and age.do you agree? Or is expecting a girl to be a virgin after 20+ reasonable?

These are 16th century ideals of a deeply patriarchal Islamic society. This was observed in Hindu societies as well. This is a part of heavy social conditioning. There is absolutely nothing biological about this. 

It's nothing but deep stage Blue sexual repression of men and women that only leads to unfulfilled desires and sexual dissatisfaction in life. 

Don't listen to your Islamic friends because they haven't transcended the rules, norms and boundaries of their culture. They are stuck in a different century that no longer is compatible with the healthy relationship ideals of our current times 

Both men and women have sexual feelings dictated by biology and hormones. Suppressing it is like suppressing sleep, sooner or later the effects are going to be detrimental. 

Women and men develop sexual feelings by age 16-19. This is where teenage romance starts. 

It would be quite abnormal to not develop sexual feelings when they need to develop. 

Most relationships in this age group are rarely successful because we are emotionally immature at this age and the romantic experience at this age can be best described as an "infatuation" or hormonal attraction. 

Most people experience some form of sexual connection from the ages of 19 to 21. 

If a person does not experience any form of sexual intimacy in this age range, it's most probably a good indicator of many different conditions like - inability to feel sexual, being too picky /choosy, inability to develop or create emotional/sexual intimacy, incel syndrome, biases against dating or opposite gender, socialization issues, lack of confidence, fears regarding intimacy, unable to find a proper match, sexual repression, family pressure, nerdiness, psychological issues, trust issues, past  trauma, sexual hangups, work and career pressure, issues with production of sex hormones, social anxiety disorder, boring personality, lack of attraction skills, looks, lack of conversational skills, physical deformity, low self esteem, arrogance, lack of Openness, egotism, insecurities, lack of passion. 

The list goes on and on. 

If a person is relatively(not perfectly) healthy and normal and experiences sexual urges and has no fears or insecurities around sexual intimacy, he/she  should be able to find someone and have sex within that age range. At that age nobody wants to be a virgin. Because most people develop romantic feelings at that age and there is a natural craving to bond sexually and emotionally. 

Expecting a girl or a boy to be a Virgin at 16  is kinda okayish because generally most people aren't too keen to have sex at an extremely young age because, probably they masturbate to relieve sexual tension and aren't too ready for a relationship. Most relationships at that age are anyway a bit silly. 

But it's not okay to expect a man or woman to be a Virgin at age 20 or older because that's the prime time when your body and mind craves connection. 

Deliberately holding back romantic feelings in the ages of 18 and above can lead to built up frustration later. 

 

[Derek White]

4 hours ago, Lyubov said:

It does not become harder for a woman in her late 30s to find a good husband. This is incredibly subjective what good is and it's evident you are putting far too much weight into that sexual market place BS that fits very specific sexual preferences of yours.

Ask any woman in her late 30s, it gets harder. Yea, it's easy to find a husband, but not the man of your dream, not the best you could have had.

 

 

At least you agree that too many LTR cause trauma, like it did with your friend. 

When a guy pretends to like a woman, has sex with her, and then ghosts her, it causes psychological scars. Playboys/PUAs hurt women too, ask any woman. Maybe you don't think so because you are one.

It's not just that, guys want to feel special too and relationships lose their spark when it's like your 30th time. How are you gonna form a bond after that?

I'm not shaming women for having sex. It's a free world, do whatever you want, just know that people are going to have preferences. It's just my preference, it's actually good for men if women are having tons of sex with different guys. And many women have this preference for low body count in men too.

4 hours ago, Lyubov said:

It's the perspective of under developed men.

 

About developed/underdeveloped :

This is the problem with using Spiral Dynamics everywhere. It's just one perspective.

Majority of men around the world (most of Asia, most of Africa, many countries in Eastern Europe, Russia, China, India, etc. and even in NA) have preference for low-body count. That's majority of men. It seems according to your worldview there's nothing to learn from them. You look down upon these people.

Everywhere people are underdeveloped except for your little ideological corner in North America. Except it's not true. People are sad AF in these "developed" places. Yes, there are things they do better, but it's not relationships. Anxiety and depression are at an all times high in these places. People get into pointless relationships that don't go past the lust phase. People are materialistic AF. Seniors are lonely and have no attachment to their children and partners. Often times there are no partners, because they got a divorce. They are just dying on the bed no one to look after them except for a nurse sent by the government. 

Yea, these traditional cultures have their problems. They are not perfect, I will be the first one to point those out. But these developed places are not the epitome of relationships or a healthy society either. The solution is in balancing the traditional with the modern.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Derek White

[Raptorsin7]

@Derek White I don't think a woman's body count is a deal break or as a big of deal as having children from a previous relationship, but it's definitely not a desirable or attractive trait. 

I think if I really liked a girl then it wouldn't matter too much, but it also depends on the types of guys she was with before you as well imo. I wouldn't appreciate walking around a city and I am constantly running into men who had sex with my girlfriend, especially if the men are of low character or development.

I agree with a lot of your points though

[max duewel]

no, it does not matter

[something_else]

3 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Derek White I don't think a woman's body count is a deal break or as a big of deal as having children from a previous relationship, but it's definitely not a desirable or attractive trait. 

I think if I really liked a girl then it wouldn't matter too much, but it also depends on the types of guys she was with before you as well imo. I wouldn't appreciate walking around a city and I am constantly running into men who had sex with my girlfriend, especially if the men are of low character or development.

I agree with a lot of your points though

Yea I can see this being problematic. The high body count isn't an issue but I don't really wanna be running into her exes 7 days a week, nor would I want her running into mine. That's a recipe for disaster. So in a sense if her body count was high in whatever community I was a part of then that would be a problem. However this realistically is never gonna happen if you live in even a moderately sized city

[zazen]

It matters for long term relationships but its not black and white. Just because a relationship lasts long doesn't mean its a success, the real question is was it a happy relationship where both partners were happy, and the ability to pair bond to each other greatly impacts this. Men can separate the sex act from emotion more easily than women, for women have far more to lose in sex ie being crippled by birth for up to a year not able to provide for themselves and wanting to provide for the child after birth. For this reason they need to be more discriminate in who they sleep with and this is good, its what drove men to improve along with civilisation. Nature evolved mechanisms for people to bond with sex, to ensure the survival of offspring, that the partners would stay around. It induces our bodies with bio chemicals bonding us to that partner like sticky tape. That sticky tape can weaken the more partners are bonded too in shorter time scales, weakening its ability to bond to future partners. Thats the biological element, then we layer psychology which is where the grey comes in. If a women is older and has less prospects, she may not bond with a certain man who's not her best compared to her past but her psychology of wanting to be in a relationship for companionship etc over rides that and she stays in a relationship out of gratitude. Some people who don't end up with their best partner end up resenting their partner comparing them to the past. 

 

Just as with anything, we become desensitised to stimulus the more we'r exposed to it. The more we'r exposed to sex with different partners we numb ourselves to the biochemical response making it less special. For men who can just have sex on a lust level it doesn't affect us the same way, hence when men may say it doesn't matter about the body count, we could be projecting  our own biology/psychology onto the opposite sex, telling them to behave like men in the name of equality, fulfilling our base desire for easy access to sex, only to hurt these women in the long term on an emotional level, and they will eat it up in the name of liberal freedom. Physically they are free, but emotionally they are chained by past traumas they must deal with, and the excess baggage (carry on is okay, we all have it) they bring to every consecutive relationship that the future partner also has to contend with. 

 

Heres the nuance: its not body count per se that matters as much as emotional impact. If a woman has slept with 10 guys who were average and you come along above average and give her a greater emotional response / experience than the previous guys she will stick with you and deem her previous encounters nothing compared to you, deeming her happy in the relationship. On the flip side say she had 2 partners who were high value alphas who gave her intense experiences (in the bedroom and out) and your her 3rd partner only, but not as good compared to them, she could compare you to them and not be happy in the relationship due to that constant comparison. It's not a female thing as much as it is a human thing. Obviously, the more partners the more likelihood she been with her top guy, more likely ruining her happiness in future relationships. 

 

Why do people generally remember their first sexual encounter? It was the most intense and new experience in their lives. If we were able to die to the past and burn up that past karma, maybe we could stay happier in current relationships avoiding the comparison trap. The grass isn't always greener but greener where we water it. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by zazen

[zazen]

In the past even during polygamous times where women slept with more than one man, in the tribe it would have been probably no more than the top 3 - 5 partners in her short life time, unlike double digits we have today. This polygamous structure works in smaller tribes as resources are shared and the village raises the child, everyone is a uncle/aunt to the child but at scale like in todays world of millions it's much harder to replicate. Today we live much longer, from 30 to 90, 3 times as long. Evolution and biology don't care for human feelings/psychological health, just the reproduction and survival of that genetic production. Humans created nuclear families to create emotional stability of care and love to ensure the psychological well being of each other as they aged.

 

When a women was to live to 30 years old, she could sleep around in polygamous societies and not worry about her long term happiness. Now that we live long lives, whats the best strategy to adopt in society where we live till 80/90, and when a woman's looks decline against time, her 1 asset in obtaining security (not financially but more so emotionally from a strong man). Looks aren't the only asset of course, although feminity, the non physical is diminishing in modern times also. Her best best would be to secure one partner to give her companionship and be her legacy partner into old age, and like wise for a man to do the same as his value starts to decline in the eyes of society. More so now days where our elders aren't respected the same thanks to technology, the youth are prized as they are more savvy than the old in the god like powers that technology give us. 

 

Could it be that we are physically polygamous, but mentally monogamous for our own sanity and emotional/psychological health of having someone their to provide us emotionally well being and this was societally enforced for the stability of society and so every one had a partner (and men had access to sex, even if they were beta/average). Maybe biology only evolved us to pair bond until a baby is born and on their feet, could be why the average length of relationships is 2-3 years. But we try to bond ourselves for our monogamous ideals. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by zazen

[Ineedanswers]

10 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Yea women are attracted to that. I was attracted too. 

It takes time to outgrow, emotionally evolve as a woman and not fall prey to fuckboys anymore. Once a woman becomes emotionally matured she chooses a good guy, even though he might not be attractive, she learns to settle with him because she can admire other things about him like his character and integrity

One more question please.in this post you said that that girls are usually attracted to player behaviour when they are younger(leo says this as well).

Does this mean  If you arent a player you should still act like one?is it wrong  to act affectionate etc all the time (making her coffee everymorning,constantly telling her shes beautiful,cuddling etc)even though you really like the girl?or will she actually prefer you to have a player attitude rather than a affectionate attitude?(i mean when shes in her early twenties).  If someone is actually a nice guy (ie not acting nice for ulterior motives like sex) should he still act like a player because women enjoy this more? Or should he continue to be  empathetic affectionate and understanding if that is who he is?

Edited December 16, 2021 by Ineedanswers

[something_else]

12 minutes ago, Ineedanswers said:

One more question please.in this post you said that that girls are usually attracted to player behaviour when they are younger(leo says this as well).

Does this mean  If you arent a player you should still act like one?is it wrong  to act affectionate etc all the time (making her coffee everymorning,constantly telling her shes beautiful,cuddling etc)even though you really like the girl?or will she actually prefer you to have a player attitude rather than a affectionate attitude?(i mean when shes in her early twenties).  If someone is actually a nice guy (ie not acting nice for ulterior motives like sex) should he still act like a player because women enjoy this more? Or should he continue to be  empathetic affectionate and understanding if that is who he is?

Once you're in a committed relationship don't be a dick. Do nice things for your GF

[tsuki]

17 hours ago, Ineedanswers said:

Does a women’s body count matter?

@Ineedanswers Who are you asking this question of? Does it matter to most men? Probably yes. Does it matter to me? Yes, I enjoy having sex with experienced women. Does it matter to you? That's a tricky one.

What you really want to know is whether you should care about such things so that you appear more or less attractive in the eyes of other men. There are people in the redpill community that consider high body count a disadvantage and you want to know whether you are justified in liking what you do. First of all, notice how you feel when you listen to such voices. You second-guess yourself. Why do you consume thoughts that make you feel bad, and then come to us and ask whether or not they are correct? You have every right to have every thought you goddamn please, and like everything you goddamn like. There is no reason to align your thinking with the mindset of the group you partake in, ESPECIALLY, when their belief system feels wrong. Just stroll ahead, that's it.

Now, for the real question: does a woman's body count matter for you, this is a very worthwhile question to explore. This is, however, best done in a private journal on a piece of paper. This is where you can be most vulnerable with yourself, and authentically express what you think, without regard for other people's opinions.

[Pavement]

26 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

Overall, her level of emotional investment in you, should be higher than your emotional investment in her.

Not true. This will leave your girl feeling insecure in the relationship.  If a girl feels you are less invested in her she will wise up and leave (if she is a self loving, somewhat secure girl with self respect)  if you use this tactic your basically just trauma bonding, so no doubt you will attract less secure girls.  
if what you mean is basically have a life outside of the relationship and have a purpose, then yes.  
But if you are deliberately keeping yourself ‘less invested’ that’s actually coming from insecurity and fear of intimacy.  
Learn how to love people fully and unapologetically whilst still having your own purpose. 
Divine Masculine is giving. Give love. Don’t withhold your love as a manipulation tactic.Being a whole and complete human is being able to love without fear, but also having enough self respect and self love to know if it’s not reciprocated. 

[Preety_India]

45 minutes ago, Ineedanswers said:

One more question please.in this post you said that that girls are usually attracted to player behaviour when they are younger(leo says this as well).

Does this mean  If you arent a player you should still act like one?is it wrong  to act affectionate etc all the time (making her coffee every morning,constantly telling her shes beautiful,cuddling etc)even though you really like the girl?or will she actually prefer you to have a player attitude rather than a affectionate attitude?(i mean when shes in her early twenties).  If someone is actually a nice guy (ie not acting nice for ulterior motives like sex) should he still act like a player because women enjoy this more? Or should he continue to be  empathetic affectionate and understanding if that is who he is?

Getting and being attracted to player attitude and tricks has less to do with age and more to do with lack of experience and maturity. Even a 50 year old woman who never had a relationship can be played. To attract a woman, you'll need to learn a few tricks that most players use like getting her attention, being romantic,  getting good at conversations etc, but always remember that good intentions always lead to a happy outcome and nobody is hurt in the process, so as long as you plan to love a person fully and wholly, there is no problem in using tricks to attract them. Just make sure that once you are in a relationship with that person, irrespective of their age, you treat them with kindness and respect, because after all they are your lover. You shouldn't make coffee for her simply because you want to impress her, but because you really want to do nice things for her from your heart, otherwise it's a false show of love, not exactly coming from your heart. If you don't become affectionate, empathetic and understanding to your partner, what's the point of the relationship and where is your growth in that relationship if nothing has to change? Relationships are not about possessing and having someone like buying a doll from the market, relationships are about growing mutually with that person, learning to develop a bond with that person and growing this bond. 

Try to look at relationships not from the perspective of "I want this woman because she is hot, so it will be nice if I can have her" but with the perspective of "I feel happy with this woman, I want to live and grow with her and love her the best way I can." 

Relationships are very much about giving more and taking less, they teach us to see how we can expand and grow in our love for someone. If you withhold love, then you aren't really open to a relationship in a genuine way, you're simply entertaining it's idea for social status (see I got this hot girl kinda way) and egoic reasons. You aren't truly falling in love. Because people who truly fall in love will not even question the idea of whether to be affectionate to their partner or not. They just know they have to be, no doubt about it. 

 

 

 

[Preety_India]

46 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

Overall, her level of emotional investment in you, should be higher than your emotional investment in her.

A woman finds it tough to trust a man usually because of all the negativity that surrounds women in society. 

If she realizes that your emotional investment is lower than hers, that's the first reason why she won't be interested in the relationship anymore. 

Women are very intuitive creatures. They can sense and feel what their man feels. So if she gets a bad feeling or a feeling of deprivation, that's a sure shot method of her seeking another man who is more interested in her. Too easy to lose a girl that way. 

 

 

[tsuki]

@Salvijus What kind of bullshit dogma is this?!

How on Earth did you come up with that flawed analogy that equates sex with literal dirt? This is the kind of spiritual idiocy that should be banned from here. If you pursue minimization of your karma via some sort of spiritual yogic system, then that is fine. But don't you ever dare to judge other people's behavior simply because they follow a different path. 

It is even fine if you want a partner that is similar to you in terms of your beliefs. But don't make these beliefs into universal morality that all people should oblige with. 

[Raptorsin7]

29 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Some additional thoughts came as I was thinking.

I think having many sex partners is like wearing clothes that some previous stranger was wearing before. With each different person wearing it, the value of the clothes go down naturally. But the difference with clothes is that you can wash them and they become relatively okey, but you can't wash your sex partner. And that's not a small difference.

Sexual interactions leave karmic imprints which are very deep and lasts who knows how long, maybe a lifetime. The whole thing is a little bit like eating from a plate that was used by a previous person and not washed because it's unwashable. I think that's where all the bad assosiations come from when having too many partners. That's why women are sometimes labeled as "impure" after losing their virginity. I think it makes sense a little bit.

People should treat sex as a sacred thing done by two very close beings who want to connect their souls in some way. It should not be treated like a casual thing imo.

I wonder if there's a way to purge and purify the system of all the past sexual imprints through some spiritual energetic tantric way or smth. I think there should be.

P.S I think what I wrote applies to women more than men. Men don't gather that much imprint from sex like a women does. He still becomes a pig tho for treating women like objects. But the impact for a woman is much stronger imo.

Yeah, I always had a sense that casually being with a girl can be very damaging. I think also for men too, but I think men have an easier time letting go of a woman given the different investments in reproduction. A man can run away and be fine. A woman can not so easily run from her children, the bond is different.

But at the same time sex is fun, and what's wrong with two people having intercourse as friends if they have both have their eyes open. I guess as a man i'm biased because it would be nice to live in a world where woman can have casual sex without harm, but idk if that's reality

[tsuki]

This thread is a study of how 16 century men thought of women.

Why do you develop rational systems that dictate what is healthy for women, when you clearly have no experience with them?

This is redpill and incel ideology in a nutshell. Unhappy men speculating about what is right or wrong for people they have no experience with. It's like how Catholic celibate priests teach how to raise children, or build a loving home. Ridiculous.

Edited December 16, 2021 by tsuki

[Raptorsin7]

@Salvijus ?

[Gregory1]

On 15.12.2021 at 8:24 PM, vizual said:

It matters; once a hoe, always a hoe. Can you really respect your woman if she sucked the D's of half the town? Do you really want the mother of your children to be a hoe?

This is fucking sexist. Can that guy please be banned? @Nahm @Tim R

@Snader @universe @Adamq8 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Gregory1

[Lyubov]

12 hours ago, Derek White said:

Ask any woman in her late 30s, it gets harder. Yea, it's easy to find a husband, but not the man of your dream, not the best you could have had.

 

 

At least you agree that too many LTR cause trauma, like it did with your friend. 

When a guy pretends to like a woman, has sex with her, and then ghosts her, it causes psychological scars. Playboys/PUAs hurt women too, ask any woman. Maybe you don't think so because you are one.

It's not just that, guys want to feel special too and relationships lose their spark when it's like your 30th time. How are you gonna form a bond after that?

I'm not shaming women for having sex. It's a free world, do whatever you want, just know that people are going to have preferences. It's just my preference, it's actually good for men if women are having tons of sex with different guys. And many women have this preference for low body count in men too.

 

About developed/underdeveloped :

This is the problem with using Spiral Dynamics everywhere. It's just one perspective.

Majority of men around the world (most of Asia, most of Africa, many countries in Eastern Europe, Russia, China, India, etc. and even in NA) have preference for low-body count. That's majority of men. It seems according to your worldview there's nothing to learn from them. You look down upon these people.

Everywhere people are underdeveloped except for your little ideological corner in North America. Except it's not true. People are sad AF in these "developed" places. Yes, there are things they do better, but it's not relationships. Anxiety and depression are at an all times high in these places. People get into pointless relationships that don't go past the lust phase. People are materialistic AF. Seniors are lonely and have no attachment to their children and partners. Often times there are no partners, because they got a divorce. They are just dying on the bed no one to look after them except for a nurse sent by the government. 

Yea, these traditional cultures have their problems. They are not perfect, I will be the first one to point those out. But these developed places are not the epitome of relationships or a healthy society either. The solution is in balancing the traditional with the modern.

 

 

You actually are deeply misinformed and parroting a lot of red pill talking points here intentionally or unintentionally. I'm sorry for being so blunt here. You make a few valid points why it might be bothersome to a man but your entire conceptualization of "why" is actually so off and just screams a lack of dating experience with women both in their 20s and 30s. You can ask a woman at any age what dating is like and they will all say it's hard. That's the nature of the beast. It does not get harder past 30. Maybe the thought stories behind it changes but the rawness and emotional rewards stay the same. You saw a video of one or two women complaining about dating being hard in their 30s and are now basing your entire world view around that thinking it gets harder for all of them and that this somehow morphs into some sort of existential crisis for them. Does it get harder to conceive and start a family? A bit. Could that be a regret, yes. But that has nothing to do with finding a partner a woman is satisfied with. Plenty of divorced me not looking to have kids. Your bolded statement is literally pure fantasy of what you think it is like for women. You have no clue actually. I can tell you now most women, if they married a guy, are happy and not going into some sort of maximizing thought story where they think they could of married better if they were in their 20s. I'm going to be repeating a previous point I made in my last post if I explain further. 

It's somewhat superfluous to the discussion but no, playboys/puas don't cause nearly the amount of harm the guys here say they do. Modern women know when a fuck is a fuck and actually are far more psychologically equipped to handle this than you realize. They are playing their own cunning game and most are far more prepared for what happens when they play with fire. It doesn't feel good to be ghosted but playboys don't have nearly the investment in her to sway her so much that it traumatically affects her future relationships in a heavy/impactful way. She may be more cautious to hook up on the first date with a playboy going forward but that is far more surface level than what we are talking about here. 

In terms of feeling special. I agree with you there. That is a valid point that if your partner has a higher number than you that it can cause a feeling of imbalance. I already addressed this in my prior post how to handle this in a healthy way. You are free to pursue your other desires and leave the relationship or stay with her knowing, or not knowing her past, whatever she is comfortable disclosing to you. 

I don't look down upon such under developed men. I think they just handle this issue in an incredibly dysfunctional way. Read my prior post. It would be so much easier if shame and judgement wasn't wrapped up with being a slut. Men and women could openly disclose their bodycount and find someone they feel comfortable being with. Some will be put off by the imbalance and free to find someone similar to them. People who don't care can be together. That's not reality unfortunately. This is an issue that unfolds over several months in a relationship (or even longer, or just swept under the rug).

I also agree with your analysis of relationships in these societies. All of them have room to improve in. There is plenty of judgement even in advanced societies on this topic. I know the center of gravity isn't exactly where I am but I'm also aware I'm much more advanced than most men and I'm a trailblazer and leader in this domain just through my understanding, being and energetic presence. And for the record, I actually do prefer to have a partner that is at or bellow my level of experience. I can relate to this issue. I've dated a woman more experienced than me before and it was an issue. I learned from it though and learned to create a healthy and judgement free way of handling such an issue without conceptualizing in all sorts of crazy, judgement based, lowly developed red pill ways like you have.  

Edited December 16, 2021 by Lyubov

[vizual]

1 hour ago, Gregory1 said:

This is fucking sexist. Can that idiot please be banned? @Nahm @Tim R

@Snader @universe @Adamq8 

sexism

/ˈsɛksɪz(ə)m/ noun

prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.

"sexism in language is an offensive reminder of the way the culture sees women"

 

It doesn't meet the definition of sexism. I would say the same exact thing if it was a man.

Stop virtue signalling @Tim R