A deeper realization than god

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, johnlocke18 said:

@Breakingthewall People tend to think of say, a black hole and say that there’s nothing within it, when really it’s just empty space. Same with cessation. When I say emptiness or nothingness, I mean TRUE nothingness. Maybe I shouldn’t have used the word emptiness, but true nothingness has to be the deepest realization, otherwise it’s something and that’s not it. It’s not even an experience when you truly realize nothingness. 

Yes but in that realization of nothingness, in which you are not even there, you (not you, the void) still are. It is without any attributes, totally empty. It is a sensation that has made me vomit. If not, it would be as if they gave you propofol, a timeskip. the point is that what I am seeing now, my phone on which I write, my room, are nothingness appearing to be something, but they are just a form in nothingness, that is, nothing creates all this. in fact, it creates all that is infinitely possible by the fact that it is. then it is not nothing, since it is something, you might say. Well, that's what I think, nothing does not exist since it always is, existence. you can perceive an empty existence, which you call nothing, or a total existence, which you call god, but both are the same

[peanutspathtotruth]

@johnlocke18 I like what you're pointing to. But I also feel you're quite defensive when you really don't need to ?? That's not a criticism, it's an observation to set the stage for a calm, loving discussion about this immense beauty we are exploring here.

So to let some ideas flow, with ease and without attacking anyone: 

Consider that exactly what you realized might be the realization someone else had - exactly the same - and they just call it God instead of emptiness. They mean the exact same "..." that we dare not speak about and then..they do speak about it. And their minds just work differently or they learned concepts in a different sequence and thus coined their insights in a different sequence. As @Adamq8 said - we could call it anything, really. To make a description of something you can not describe the only possible description for that which cannot be described is... indescribably backwards ?

And the sad thing about it, which I see here all the time, is: while we might talk about the same thing, we argue about semantics or keep on playing "I'm deeper than you" games. Instead of recognizing: oh yeah, no matter how complete someone's recognition is, we all just are on a journey to see what this wonderful reality truly is. And we are that which we want to explore. We. Are. That. Why don't we ease into this whole thing a little and be truly loving instead of making this more complicated than it is? In the end, where is it written that with truth in our experience we need to tell others exactly what it is? What if we start channeling it in ways of love, kindness, compassion, understanding, playfulness and being super chill, for example

It's all beautiful is what I wanna say. Thank you for sharing your insights, I found them highly stimulating

[johnlocke18]

@WelcometoReality People argue if nothingness created everything or if everything created itself. But there’s no argument that nothingness is creating anything, because that would make it a thing, even if it’s empty space. 

[johnlocke18]

@peanutspathtotruth No, I have to defend my point when someone is misconstruing what I’m saying. My point won’t get across if I don’t. You can’t let someone punch you in the face and not defend yourself. They’re not saying the same thing I am, they’re saying god is nothingness and I’m explaining why by definition that’s not true. I can’t just let someone shut down my point and push their own and just agree. 

[peanutspathtotruth]

Just now, johnlocke18 said:

@peanutspathtotruth I can’t just let someone shut down my point and push their own and just agree. 

If that's what you feel you must do, then go for it I feel this could be much more of an exploration instead of having to take any opinion as a counter-argument about what you're saying.

[johnlocke18]

@Breakingthewall Like I just explained, if you’re perceiving it then it’s just space. I didn’t say empty existence is nothingness, I just explained empty space isn’t true nothingness. You say total existence, so if you’re talking about something that exists, it’s not nothingness. It’s called the stateless state for a reason. Like I wrote an essay explaining space isn’t nothingness and you just tried to say I said space is nothingness lol 

Edited December 15, 2021 by johnlocke18

[johnlocke18]

@peanutspathtotruth I don’t just feel like it, it literally have to or people will misunderstand what I’m saying. I’m not attacking anyone, just defending myself when I get attacked. 

[peanutspathtotruth]

3 minutes ago, johnlocke18 said:

@peanutspathtotruth I don’t just feel like it, it literally have to or people will misunderstand what I’m saying. I’m not attacking anyone, just defending myself when I get attacked. 

No one is attacking you ? If you truly realized the ground of all existence, at least take away that you ultimately can't be attacked, and even relatively speaking...you are safe now, no need to defend yourself. Who are you defending? Take it easy, but... take it ❤️

[johnlocke18]

@peanutspathtotruth And again, its not us saying the same thing but disagreeing. They’re saying 2+2=5 and I’m saying 2+2=4.  They’re saying god is nothingness and I’m saying its not, by definition or experience. God is ultimate reality, so it’s a thing. Meaning within nothingness and not the same thing. If nothingness was creating it wouldn’t be nothingness. 

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, johnlocke18 said:

@Breakingthewall Like I just explained, if you’re perceiving it then it’s just space. I didn’t say empty existence is nothingness, I just explained empty space isn’t true nothingness. You say total existence, so if you’re talking about something that exists, it’s not nothingness. It’s called the stateless state for a reason. 

nothingness without existence does not exist. Imagine that they give you anesthesia and they wake you up half an hour later, or a million years later, and for you not a second has passed. that interval was nonexistence. a nonexistent interval. The nothing you speak of has no space or time, but it exists, otherwise you would not be able to perceive it. go to nothing more times (although it is scary, at least for me), until you see that it is everything, infinity, that is the mystery (some who say they understand, I suppose it is possible)

[peanutspathtotruth]

Just now, johnlocke18 said:

@peanutspathtotruth And again, its not us saying the same thing but disagreeing. They’re saying 2+2=5 and I’m saying 2+2=4.  They’re saying god is nothingness and I’m saying its not, by definition or experience. God is ultimate reality, so it’s a thing. Meaning within nothingness and not the same thing. If nothingness was creating it wouldn’t be nothingness. 

"But, but... they say I'm wrong, but I'm actually right!! 2+2=4 is the only reality. When they don't see it I have to tell them over and over again."

All you're doing is talking about words and symbols and defending yourself unnecessarily. For what? It doesn't matter. Love your heart instead ♥️ Just chill, man ?

[johnlocke18]

@peanutspathtotruth Yes my point was getting attacked at the beginning and I defended it. Attacking doesn’t always come out aggressive, it can be passive aggressive. 

[johnlocke18]

@Breakingthewall Yes, nothingness doesn’t exist. It’s non existence. Like you just explained it’s not a thing. The problem is the beginning you said nothingness cannot exist without existence. It doesn’t exist anyway. You’re trying to make nothingness out to be a thing when it’s not. There’s empty space, and then there’s existence, and that’s al within nothingness. 

[johnlocke18]

@peanutspathtotruth We use words and symbols to communicate. So, yes I’m right saying 2+2=4, otherwise it’s miscommunication. I’m doing it to explain my point, and I have to repeat because they misunderstand. That’s why. How could anyone get a point across or explain something if we just didn’t worry about words or symbols? And I am chill, you’re just assuming I’m not. Stop trying to passive aggressively invalidate what I’m saying. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by johnlocke18

[johnlocke18]

@Judy2 I know, and I’m explaining WHY they can’t understand, and they’re making it difficult trying to argue as if it’s a thing. 

[johnlocke18]

@peanutspathtotruth “But but, they say I’m wrong” I didn’t get emotional like that and I’ve been very clear and patient, so don’t try to make it out like I’m not. That’s very petty. I thought you said no one was attacking? Talk about gas lighting. 

[johnlocke18]

@Judy2 Why are you questioning if you’re annoying before saying. Anything? Do people on here gaslight you that bad for disagreeing? Don’t let the loads of passive aggressive people on here put you down up on their high horse, fronting that they don’t get flustered when that’s the most insecure thing you can do.

[peanutspathtotruth]

1 minute ago, johnlocke18 said:

@peanutspathtotruth “But but, they say I’m wrong” I didn’t get emotional like that and I’ve been very clear and patient, so don’t try to make it out like I’m not. That’s very petty. I thought you said no one was attacking? Talk about gas lighting. 

11 minutes ago, johnlocke18 said:

 

Not attacking you at all I've seen this over and over and over again in this forum, and I'm seeing the same thing now. Absolute claims being made that get aggressively defended and all that is brought your way is interpreted as an attack. I said it in the beginning, I said it now: these discussions could be open, exploring perspectives together, making points on behalf of the beauty(!!!) of what reality/God/nothingness/whatever is.

But people even, and especially, in this corner of the internet always have to make their own claims to be the only true one. That's not mature or integrated enlightenment at all. People were taking 5-MeO and having these insights for years here now. Me included. And all I'm trying is to soften us up a bit, with love and some humor, so we can stop being so adamant about it all and have a loving, non-defensive discussion. I love this forum and I'm willing to infuse it with all the love I can bring up so the overly dramatic seriousness is taken out and we can truly be helpful to each other. Defending is not helpful.

Don't take it personally, you don't exist anyway This is not about you, it's about the whole attitude and energy of the forum. It's just not very integrated. I wanna help with that because I see great potential here.

[johnlocke18]

@peanutspathtotruth Sure you’re not attacking, yet you’re framing me as emotional to invalidate my point, when I haven’t been yet. Stop with the passive aggression you already showed your colors, though it was subtle. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by johnlocke18

[johnlocke18]

@peanutspathtotruth You’re saying it’s about the attitude and energy of the forum, yet you’re here arguing when you said you agree, and making it out like I’m defensive when I haven’t been. I didn’t say my claim is the only one true, that’s putting words in my mouth. I just posted something, I didn’t start the arguing, I just made my point clear when people twisted around. The twisting around is what’s making it messy, not me correcting it. And you’re also adding on to that. If you don’t agree, and are against arguing, then why are you still here? 

Edited December 16, 2021 by johnlocke18