Can a woman ever love a man the way he wants to be loved?

[CodyXarex]

From my experience with women, it's like the moment I start to get invested in someone and want to start giving all my love to her, she loses interest and ghosts me or friendzones me. But if I play it cool and don't express too much interest, she stays interested.

Except if I can't ever share my love with a woman and I have to be this cold muthafuckuh for her to stay in love with me, I wonder, what's the point in trying to date women and find, "love" if a woman will never love me the way I want, and I have to love myself?

I'm not against self-love, I love it. I love myself more than before, and in the end, I'm all I've got.

It's just weird frustrating, wanting love and intimacy from someone, but expressing that too much causes you to lose it. Yet women fall into relationships with abusive and manipulative men all the time and end up addicted in love with them. To the point where I almost thing most women WANT to be manipulated into being in love with a man. They don't really want to be loved. I don't even really blame players who have multiple baby mommas anymore, and I don't have a lot of respect for women other than what they do as individuals.

I mean I can play these stupid mindgames with women to try and get past her bullshit and seduce her, but I just always feel like that's wretched, stupid, and waste of my time when I could be doing something more productive and virtuous than wasting time, playing games with some girl.

To the point where sometimes in the past, when a girl expressed romantic or sexual attraction to me (usually after hearing me sing or some friend trying to hook me up with someone), I usually get weirdly angry and proud, and I either start ignoring her everytime she's around, or I even start to play mindgames with her.

If I want sex, I'll pay for it. If I want love, I'll find it within myself and within God. So why the fuck would I ever date or marry someone unless I accidentally knock them up?

The only way I can think of loving a woman, is loving her like a pet.

The best way I can describe it, is that I get angry and defensive because it feels like she's trying to distract me from my self-love, my purpose, and from God. She's trying to take my sovereignty from me. The times where I did reciprocate sexual or romantic attraction, it fizzled out.

 

I know I sound clueless and probably a bit broken but fuck it, I want answers.

Edited December 15, 2021 by CodyXarex

[universe]

Eh it's not too bad.

You are probably younger or live in a certain spot where these women mingle.

Of course many healthy women will not engage with a guy who appears overall needy or weak.

 

Balance.

 

You can shout out your love for her and shower her with compliments all you want IF you also give her the other stuff she enjoys.

Love is something very frightening for most. I would start with accepting first.

[Roy]

Look I know you might have all these ideas and concepts in your head about what women are like, and they might even sometimes be true and informed by some of your experiences. But ultimately you gotta realize it's just one branch of reality you are subscribing too, so there is no reason you can't unsubscribe to it and change your perspectives (and experiences) to be closer to something you actually want. Because it sounds like what you are describing here is something you don't want.

I'll basically help you cheat the test and give you the "answer" since you're asking for it. Although, note that just reading and hearing about it won't do much for you. You'll have to work for it over time.

The answer is to move towards what you want in spite of whether or not it's "right" or logically consistent with what you think is the truth. Yes the game may very well be rigged, or nonsensical, but are you able to change the game? Do you have the power to change female psychology? No. So change yourself.

Your problem is you are at a discord between what you think reality is, and what you actually want. Then you are believing that disconnection is the only way things can be.

[CodyXarex]

@Roy Well shit, that kind of flew over my head, but I think I have some beginning to understanding what you mean.

Well I don't like being needy or weak. I don't know where the idea that it's somehow on the same level as love comes from other than...My culture or something.

I mean, yeah I get kind of cynical about dating and relationships, but if I had to be honest with myself, there were some times where the games were fun, and I mean...Having someone to have sex with and do fun things with DOES sound pretty nice even if that's ALL it is. And I know that if I don't figure this aspect of my life out I'm going to continue to be envious of other guys and frustrated when I don't approach someone I'm attracted to.

but you say to move towards I want IN SPITE of whether or not it's "right" or logically consistent with what I think is the truth. It really makes me think, do I really know what I want?

Because i notice that when I tell myself what I seem to be behaving like I want, which is, "You want a girlfriend who is going to love you for who you've made yourself into and that you can shower with love", I get no response from that little voice in my head. I almost could have sworn I heard a "No."

Why DO I want a girlfriend? Other than still trying to play up to some norm and finding certain women really attractive?.

I don't know I guess I just see this thing, it's attractive to me, and I guess I just, want it. It seems kinda nice, maybe.

Edited December 15, 2021 by CodyXarex

[Roy]

17 minutes ago, CodyXarex said:

It really makes me think, do I really know what I want?

Because i notice that when I tell myself what I seem to be behaving like I want, which is, "You want a girlfriend who is going to love you for who you've made yourself into and that you can shower with love", I get no response from that little voice in my head. I almost could have sworn I heard a "No."

Why DO I want a girlfriend? Other than still trying to play up to some norm and finding certain women really attractive?

Yes! This! 

You are on the right track to make progress here. Keep asking questions, deconstruct and burn as much as you can away, and what should be leftover is your authentic desires. From there is where you can start building again and taking action.

[Leo Gura]

Keep trying. You just gotta find the right girl.

Yes, women reward player behavior. They can't help it. It's what they are attracted to.

[Karmadhi]

@Leo Gura Then how do non player intellectual guys end up with hot girls when they are not rich or high status? I know some of them. They just look nice and are chill. No overly emotional stimulation bs, just talk make some jokes and thats it. Little game in them.

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@Leo Gura Then how do non player intellectual guys end up with hot girls when they are not rich or high status? I know some of them. They just look nice and are chill. No overly emotional stimulation bs, just talk make some jokes and thats it. Little game in them.

1) Most guys don't end up with hot girls at all.

2) Even if they get lucky and find a hot girl, they will likely lose her at some point and become very frustrated. You are not taking into account how these guys feel when they lose their one lucky girl.

3) Just being a social extrovert will get you girls.

4) Talk and jokes is game. Looking nice and being chill is game.

5) If you are good-looking you need way less game.

6) If you are extroverted you need way less game.

[Karmadhi]

 

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Talk and jokes is game

If you cannot make jokes then i think you have bigger problems in life than not getting laid. There is a difference between having a sense of humour which most people have, even if it is somewhat repressed and being charismatic and funny in a sexual way. The latter is what i would consider to be "game", the first is more basic. It is like saying do not be obese or something lol. If you cannot make any jokes you will struggle a lot in life, even in your professional career. 

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Even if they get lucky and find a hot girl, they will likely lose her at some point and become very frustrated. You are not taking into account how they guys feel when they lose their one lucky girl.

True but a "hot girl" is not just looks. The people i have in mind dated above average looking girls but they were not models or anything. Probably 6.5-7s. No reason a guy should not be happy with a  6.5-7/10 looking girl, especially if her personality and values are on point. Do not forget that if you flirt with a girl and get to know her, she will become more attractive to you assuming she matched your looks threashhold to begin with. Happened to me time and time again. An intitial 6 would turn me on more than an 8 once we started vibing and stuff.

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Most guys don't end up with hot girls at all

True.

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Just being a social extrovert will get you girls.

The people i was referring to were somewhat social but they were introverts. Social introverts  

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

If you cannot make jokes then i think you have bigger problems in life than not getting laid. There is a difference between having a sense of humour which most people have, even if it is somewhat repressed and being charismatic and funny in a sexual way. The latter is what i would consider to be "game", the first is more basic. It is like saying do not be obese or something lol. If you cannot make any jokes you will struggle a lot in life, even in your professional career.

As I said in my video Part 1, the problem is deeper than just getting laid. Many guys are simply horrible as socializing. Pickup is the most direct way of addressing that.

And as I said, some people get laid easily simply from the kind of job or career they have where they are constantly talk to new girls.

If you don't have a problem socializing or getting laid, then obviously you don't need advice on this topic.

[Raze]

7 hours ago, CodyXarex said:

From my experience with women, it's like the moment I start to get invested in someone and want to start giving all my love to her, she loses interest and ghosts me or friendzones me. But if I play it cool and don't express too much interest, she stays interested.

Except if I can't ever share my love with a woman and I have to be this cold muthafuckuh for her to stay in love with me, I wonder, what's the point in trying to date women and find, "love" if a woman will never love me the way I want, and I have to love myself?

I'm not against self-love, I love it. I love myself more than before, and in the end, I'm all I've got.

It's just weird frustrating, wanting love and intimacy from someone, but expressing that too much causes you to lose it. Yet women fall into relationships with abusive and manipulative men all the time and end up addicted in love with them. To the point where I almost thing most women WANT to be manipulated into being in love with a man. They don't really want to be loved. I don't even really blame players who have multiple baby mommas anymore, and I don't have a lot of respect for women other than what they do as individuals.

I mean I can play these stupid mindgames with women to try and get past her bullshit and seduce her, but I just always feel like that's wretched, stupid, and waste of my time when I could be doing something more productive and virtuous than wasting time, playing games with some girl.

To the point where sometimes in the past, when a girl expressed romantic or sexual attraction to me (usually after hearing me sing or some friend trying to hook me up with someone), I usually get weirdly angry and proud, and I either start ignoring her everytime she's around, or I even start to play mindgames with her.

If I want sex, I'll pay for it. If I want love, I'll find it within myself and within God. So why the fuck would I ever date or marry someone unless I accidentally knock them up?

The only way I can think of loving a woman, is loving her like a pet.

The best way I can describe it, is that I get angry and defensive because it feels like she's trying to distract me from my self-love, my purpose, and from God. She's trying to take my sovereignty from me. The times where I did reciprocate sexual or romantic attraction, it fizzled out.

 

I know I sound clueless and probably a bit broken but fuck it, I want answers.

you may be attracting toxic women

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPIZWWzJjYE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG2HACKbFu8

these videos may also help

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fXAwuodYUA

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUvahAXG85A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V50pBRDLVUo

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Raze

[Haloman]

Don't want to spread a toxic red pill idea but the truth from what I've experienced - NO, a woman can't love you as a person. She can only love how you make her feel. She bonds with you chasing your validation. And only player's behavior (not nice guy's) allows her to do that.

[Leo Gura]

You guys need to find better girls. Most girls are loyal to a fault. If your girl is not falling in love with you you're doing something wrong. When you become a high value guy your problem will be that girls fall in love with you too hard.

[Jacob Morres]

@Leo Gura well that's nice to hear 

[Joel3102]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

6) If you are extroverted you need way less game.

To be fair, you could argue game and extroversion are one in the same thing 

[Pavement]

Sounds like you still have a lot of inner work to do because you’re attracting the wrong girls.

What you call her ‘falling in love’ with you in the beginning is just infatuation.  This is usually the most toxic time when games are played and people are acting based on traumas.  It’s a tiring game to play. Eventually one person wises up and exits the relationship. Or they work through any differences and move to the next level. 

Genuine Love is rare these days and it’s something that doesn’t happen instantly.  It’s true that you develop and grow love so long as you are both growing together. The beginning stages of love are very shallow, but both people can work past that if they commit to eachother and isn’t one sided. 

It’s something you build with someone over time,  the beginning 3-6 months of a relationship is usually the hardest time to work past.People give up so easily and don’t make it past the initial hurdles to get into a deeper relationship.  

You know it’s genuine love when everything is calm, you don’t have anxiety or feel like you need to be a different person. you know eachother well enough to be comfortable in your own skin. Maybe it happens that you meet someone with whom you can be yourself with from the get go, those are the ones you should keep around if you find a good person like that. No facades. In fact you should make it your mission to become one of those people, then others will want to keep you around.  

OP what you want is basically 2 secure individuals who are both comfortable and trusting with eachother.   It just won’t work that way if one person is avoidant and one person is anxious (attachment types)  there will be a constant state of anxiety and discomfort or control.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Pavement

[Kshantivadin]

8 hours ago, CodyXarex said:

The best way I can describe it, is that I get angry and defensive because it feels like she's trying to distract me from my self-love, my purpose, and from God. She's trying to take my sovereignty from me. The times where I did reciprocate sexual or romantic attraction, it fizzled out.

This is the "shadow" part of your post. This is what you should work on.

I also partly share your feelings and I think this is a huge insight regarding redpill communities. After contemplating about this a lot, it seems to me that men are deeply hurt because of the belief that a woman cannot love a man the same way a man does, yet the man craves it.

@Roy is right on the money here. Thank you so much for the post.

 

 

[CodyXarex]

Removed for privacy

Edited December 17, 2021 by CodyXarex

[Lyubov]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys need to find better girls. Most girls are loyal to a fault. If your girl is not falling in love with you you're doing something wrong. When you become a high value guy your problem will be that girls fall in love with you too hard.

Agreed

OP, you probably are making mistakes very early on in your interactions with women and are still very much inexperienced and still have some inner work to do in this domain. You mention being ghosted or friend zoned which is something I've only seen/experienced this happen before a guy starts hooking up with a woman. You are not a thing before you have sex. Stop talking about giving love to any woman before you have had sex. It takes a couple months usually before a couple really falls in love. So I'm confused what you are talking about. You need to expand your consciousness and just expose yourself to much more experience and meet much more women. You sound very inexperienced. It's hard to really pinpoint what is going on here or in your post but it just reads like a cover up or a different way of framing that you aren't meeting women and you are getting turned down after a couple dates. You don't need to dress it up and make all sorts of conclusions and beliefs off this experience about love. Women and men fall in love like in some of the deepest tear jerking corny ways right out of a hollywood movie. It's possible and it happens and it is life changing. You just haven't experienced it yet. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Lyubov

[CodyXarex]

@Lyubov Damn that's beautiful. I'm starting to think I just need to get out there more and be myself unapologetically and unashamed.

@Raze that first video is exactly my thoughts and opinions on the whole, "game" thing entirely, and I've been trying to get myself to ignore my gut about it. I want to learn a bit of game and pickup, but not to try to pretend to be someone else, but just get better at openly expressing my thoughts about someone, to someone.

Edited December 15, 2021 by CodyXarex