Every thing is born and dies

[WelcometoReality]

From where does sound appear and where does it go when it fades away?

All appearances are impermanent and are born, change and die. Nothing is constant.

It's all duality

Life and death

Being and non-being

Existence and non-existence

Duality and non-duality

What seems to be constant to you? That is what the ego is holding onto as the self

[Mosess]

4 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

What seems to be constant to you? That is what the ego is holding onto as the self

right now, my ego IS my mobile phone.

It is the last thing, the last "object" that the ego is holding on to.

This is why i am appearing alot in the last week on actualized forums, if i let go of the mobile phone,

i am.

?

[WelcometoReality]

55 minutes ago, Mosess said:

right now, my ego IS my mobile phone.

It is the last thing, the last "object" that the ego is holding on to.

This is why i am appearing alot in the last week on actualized forums, if i let go of the mobile phone,

i am.

?

What about letting go of that which thinks it has an ego? ?

Being arises from non-being.

[Mosess]

i understand what you mean, there is no one here, thoughts arise and go just as the words being typed right now, which are nothing but thoughts externalized on their own

I am letting go, this is its way of letting go, 

it is choosing, by its own accord, to let go by writing on here, right this very instant, whatever it wants to write. The witness remains as is, but the inertia or momentum of the "ego" is being burned slowly as it writes while holding a mobile phone, i dont know if i make any sense

 

[WelcometoReality]

22 minutes ago, Mosess said:

i understand what you mean, there is no one here, thoughts arise and go just as the words being typed right now, which are nothing but thoughts externalized on their own

I am letting go, this is its way of letting go, 

it is choosing, by its own accord, to let go by writing on here, right this very instant, whatever it wants to write. The witness remains as is, but the inertia or momentum of the "ego" is being burned slowly as it writes while holding a mobile phone, i dont know if i make any sense

 

Excellent! ?

[VeganAwake]

Yeah totally, the biggest problem for the sense of self/ego is death but it's not even a real entity ?

That's why religion, spirituality or anything promising eternal life are so appealing to it. 

Hopeless freedom. ❤ 

 

[silene]

On 14/12/2021 at 8:43 AM, WelcometoReality said:

All appearances are impermanent and are born, change and die. . 

... 

What seems to be constant to you? That is what the ego is holding onto as the self

There's only the appearance (to no-one) of separate entities, getting born and dying. If thought believes in this appearance then yes, stuff births + dies. You need to believe in the real passage of time too, as well as real separation. 

But can we see what's happening prior to the thought process? 

Edited December 15, 2021 by silene

[LastThursday]

On 14/12/2021 at 8:43 AM, WelcometoReality said:

What seems to be constant to you?

That the world seems to carrying on existing. Existence.

[WelcometoReality]

1 hour ago, silene said:

There's only the appearance (to no-one) of separate entities, getting born and dying. If thought believes in this appearance then yes, stuff births + dies. You need to believe in the real passage of time too, as well as real separation. 

But can we see what's happening prior to the thought process? 

The words born and dying are pointers to what is. Nothing really is born or dies yes. Apparences are only appearances but that is not what I'm pointing to here. 

The appearance of time is only possible because of the timeless.

From where does the thought come from and where does it go when it end? 

It's born from the unborn and dies into the undieing. 

Or if you prefer from where does it arise and to where does it pass.

It can be examined and realized if the willingness is there.

 

1 hour ago, LastThursday said:

That the world seems to carrying on existing. Existence.

It seems so but it arises from moment to moment from unexistence.

[LastThursday]

5 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

It seems so but it arises from moment to moment from unexistence.

I think "arises" is too strong a word, unexistence is always made with reference to existence. But I'm just being nitpicky, please ignore me. Your sentiment is correct.

[WelcometoReality]

18 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

I think "arises" is too strong a word, unexistence is always made with reference to existence. But I'm just being nitpicky, please ignore me. Your sentiment is correct.

We could say the experience of it. What word would you use?

Because the mind can't imagine what's being pointed to perhaps. ?

Edited December 15, 2021 by WelcometoReality

[LastThursday]

@WelcometoReality putting my meta-hat on, I wouldn't use a word at all. The problem as I see it is as soon I try to explain whatever this is, I'm already into map and not territory. I think I was using the word existence in a sense with as little map as possible, which explains my nitpickiness. But even using the word this is going too far. Maybe I'm wrong and there isn't any constancy whatsoever, just a story about constancy that I believe: after all how do you compare this moment with this moment with this moment? Aren't they all different in quality? Is there really any commonality at all between moments?

Edited December 15, 2021 by LastThursday

[silene]

2 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

It can be examined and realized if the willingness is there.

I'm willing but maybe not able ha ha. All this talk of arising and passing away, coming from and going to, puts me into the frame of time, space, processes unfolding etc. Duality and thought, in fact. 

But from the perspective of the timeless and spaceless (which isn't a perspective but I'm calling it that for convenience), there's just a singularity of infinite nothingness. 

I don't think (but could be wrong), there's a movement from the timeless into time, from nothing into appearance. Can't these be the same already, but it depends on my state of mind how I'm seeing it. It's the mind which moves, not the flag in the wind (to misquote the Zen story lol).

Not sure if I've missed your points, this is all hard to articulate and communicate  

Edited December 15, 2021 by silene

[WelcometoReality]

2 hours ago, silene said:

I'm willing but maybe not able ha ha. All this talk of arising and passing away, coming from and going to, puts me into the frame of time, space, processes unfolding etc. Duality and thought, in fact. 

But from the perspective of the timeless and spaceless (which isn't a perspective but I'm calling it that for convenience), there's just a singularity of infinite nothingness. 

I don't think (but could be wrong), there's a movement from the timeless into time, from nothing into appearance. Can't these be the same already, but it depends on my state of mind how I'm seeing it. It's the mind which moves, not the flag in the wind (to misquote the Zen story lol).

Not sure if I've missed your points, this is all hard to articulate and communicate  

I use time in the pointer but the pointer doesn't point to time. ?

See if you can spot the experience of sound vanish into. Does that pointer resonate better with you?

 

[WelcometoReality]

5 hours ago, LastThursday said:

@WelcometoReality putting my meta-hat on, I wouldn't use a word at all. The problem as I see it is as soon I try to explain whatever this is, I'm already into map and not territory. I think I was using the word existence in a sense with as little map as possible, which explains my nitpickiness. But even using the word this is going too far.

Yes, that is great if you are still dieing into this. 

5 hours ago, LastThursday said:

Maybe I'm wrong and there isn't any constancy whatsoever, just a story about constancy that I believe: after all how do you compare this moment with this moment with this moment? Aren't they all different in quality? Is there really any commonality at all between moments?

This is what I'm trying to point to, the investigation of constancy. Is there such a quality? The ENDING of all sensations.

[silene]

20 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

I use time in the pointer but the pointer doesn't point to time. ?

See if you can spot the experience of sound vanish into. Does that pointer resonate better with you?

Yes I experience sounds starting and stopping. Also other perceptions start and stop. But I'm not sure where I'm going with this. Are we asking if perception 'comes from somewhere' when it starts and 'goes somewhere' when it ends? I don't understand. 

If a sound ceases to exist when it's finished, it just stops, vanishes, not vanishes into. It's not a separate entity to begin with, rather it's a modulation, a vibration of what's already here. There's never no sound, as long as I'm awake, (I have tinnitus) so the sound is just constantly changing, dancing. 

That's looking at from pov of subjective awareness. From the pov of objectivity, the sound energy doesn't vanish, rather it morphs into another form (eg heat) which isn't heard by our ears, but it is conserved as energy. 

The only constancy is unconsciousness, non-awareness, isn't it? 

Edited December 16, 2021 by silene

[peanutspathtotruth]

7 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

Yes, that is great if you are still dieing into this. 

This is what I'm trying to point to, the investigation of constancy. Is there such a quality? The ENDING of all sensations.

Dying into this... Beautiful. I generally love "this", it's so direct. This is truly all you need as a pointer. Thanks!

[LastThursday]

16 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

This is what I'm trying to point to, the investigation of constancy. Is there such a quality?

I think it largely depends on which point of view you take. If you're an idealist then consciousness is supposed to be the bedrock and so consciousness must be constant. There's a link with truth also, because truth is that which is constant.

Your view on time and space and all that stuff comes into it too. If there is no time and no space, then it's clear that there is still existence/consciousness so that is constant (my original answer). If there is time, then all moments are strung together by time itself, so time is constant - equally for space. In other words whatever feature of reality you choose to focus on, it must be constant in order to be able to focus on it.

[WelcometoReality]

On 2021-12-15 at 8:20 PM, silene said:

Yes I experience sounds starting and stopping. Also other perceptions start and stop. But I'm not sure where I'm going with this. Are we asking if perception 'comes from somewhere' when it starts and 'goes somewhere' when it ends? I don't understand. 

Yes, it goes somewhere but before realizing where the sound seems to just "vanish".

 

On 2021-12-15 at 8:20 PM, silene said:

If a sound ceases to exist when it's finished, it just stops, vanishes, not vanishes into. It's not a separate entity to begin with, rather it's a modulation, a vibration of what's already here. There's never no sound, as long as I'm awake, (I have tinnitus) so the sound is just constantly changing, dancing. 

As you practice this you will see that the sound seems constantly changing but there are places where it disappears completely just as it seemed like reality was dual before realizing it was one.

When you are melting into oneness you are putting your awareness/focus onto the infinitely large (edit: or rather letting go into the infinetely large is a better way to put it) but here I am asking you to put your awareness onto the infinitely small.

On 2021-12-15 at 8:20 PM, silene said:

That's looking at from pov of subjective awareness. From the pov of objectivity, the sound energy doesn't vanish, rather it morphs into another form (eg heat) which isn't heard by our ears, but it is conserved as energy. 

Yes from an objective pov energy doesn't disappear just transforms into something else. It's good that you're sceptical. Im not asking you to believe what I'm saying is that you can realize something by doing the practice.

On 2021-12-15 at 8:20 PM, silene said:

The only constancy is unconsciousness, non-awareness, isn't it? 

I'm not sure what you mean with unconsciousness and non-awareness can you put it into context?

Edited December 17, 2021 by WelcometoReality
Clarified something

[WelcometoReality]

On 2021-12-16 at 1:37 AM, peanutspathtotruth said:

Dying into this... Beautiful. I generally love "this", it's so direct. This is truly all you need as a pointer. Thanks!

???