Difference between heavy metals and vaccine safety research

[Zedman]

In regards to vaccination how am I supposed to trust very same institutions that put 4 mercury power plants in my mouth?

And it doesn't end with heavy metals. Phthalate contamination is also a massive issue, impacting your body development since inception, try to detox from this one.

But you see we can explain it away with ''groupthink''. Except when you doubt vaccine safety, thats a ''conspiracy theory''.

I understand that heavy metal toxicity is swept under the rug due to tricky variables like reliable testing methods, natural resistance rates, invisible buildup, lack of immediate symptoms and so on. But doesn't it apply t a recently invented genetic technology? There must be a million times more variables.

[TheAlchemist]

There's a big difference between 1. studying a isolated event exposure (vaccine) vs. 2. constant exposure (heavy metals & plastics).

In the first case you can look at how the body system is before exposure to the intervention (vaccine), how it reacts to the exposure and how it adjusts after exposure. Systems don't suddenly, years later react in some totally unexpected way to an isolated exposure event.  What you have is the normal state, the shock state and the adjusted state which are looked at in a clinical environment with double blind studies, removing the effect of other variables than the vaccine as much as possible. 

Whereas with heavy metals and phtalates the exposure is often happening continuously, from birth, potentially starting from the womb. The premise is that it can be all around the environment, in the food, the water, even the air. So it is massively more complex to study, since you can't compare easily the before and after state. 

And I know someone might say that the vaccine is not an isolated exposure since there will probably be 4+ rounds of it or something. Still, it is fundamentally different from heavy metal exposure from the environment, since a proper clinical double blind study can be done and all the exposure events are known very accurately, their dosage and their timing. Which, despite the limitations of science, works especially well for studying things like vaccines and their effects. And that is why I trust the modern scientific method regarding this. Although the development of the vaccine is highly complex, the study of its effects is fundamentally quite easy and simple. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by TheAlchemist

[Zedman]

@TheAlchemist

Thank you for showing differences in methodology. But I don't think problem with toxicity is because its hard to study. The problem is zealosly ignoring the issue. Just a couple hours ago I made an innocent inquiry to my dentist about mercury content. First I was given ''the look'' then I was firmly assured there is absolutely no adverse health effects because of the ''mixture'' with silver. If I was to argue this I am sure I would have been slapped with ''official'' safe levels and some institutionally approved study. They would dismiss this as a conspiracy. And this is exactly what I am trying to highlight.

1)Be cautious with seemingly ''easy and simple'' vaccine research. Its far from that. And there is plenty of gray area for deniability.

2)It suffers from the same groupthink and corruption problems as toxicity research even though methodology differ

3)You cannot dismiss vaccine concerns and Ivermectin research for example as illegitimate and conspiracy tier. If you do that you can as well dismiss toxicity concerns the same way.

Are these not valid concerns or am I just rambling in bias?

[TheAlchemist]

@Zedman your sense of concern is valid. Your raw feelings are valid. In concepts, we can be lost forever, and I do not wish to get lost in defending some position, getting my sense of identity wrapped up in it. So, you might take this as me avoiding the arguments, which is fine. Maybe I don't have the answers you are looking for. Just know your sense of concern, whatever you're feeling is not wrong in any fundamental way. I'm not saying your analysis is valid because I don't know, but you as a person, your sense of concern and feelings of worry etc. are all totally valid. That's all I can say now. 

[Zedman]

@TheAlchemist

Thanks for kind words despite my rant. Crazy thing is that we will be forced into this before these concerns are adressed.

[BadHippie]

I got a lot of vaccines as a child, I've been sick a lot too. Ever since I had my first ego death experience, started detoxing and try to eat only unprocessed food I haven't been sick for 2 years + now. Not even a cold or a cough. 

I would really suggest detoxing your body from all those heavy metals, they are a real problem - at least they were for me. 

Pesticides are also a big problem. Glyphosate binds all the heavy metals in your body, so it's harder for your body to detoxify. Ever since I made a Glyphosate detox I feel so much more energetic and my whole body feels more in flow. 

 

[Leo Gura]

If your standard for trust is that the party must be 100% perfect and selfless, you will never trust anyone or anything.

How is that you trust any institution ever? Schools, companies, chruches, governments, police, supermarkets, restuarants? Any one of them can be corrupt or wrong at any time.

But don't forget, so can you.

[Zedman]

@Leo Gura

Absolutely agree. There are flaws in systems and individuals we cannot currently ''fix'' because of that our trust comes with a grain of salt and usually we can choose not to trust and call for investigation. Or flat out reject a certain institution and it loses power like church.

When we relate this wisdom to heath mandates it still doesnt blend in my mind. There must be an informed choice. For example I wish I was informed on mercury in my fillings and given a choice. Now I am in a spot where I cant afford to remove them. I feel vax mandates rob you of that choice and force you to trust they are right. But how do you force trust?

 

[Ima Freeman]

@Zedman After learning about thimerosal (ethyl-mercury) in vaccines, getting my amalgams removed and detoxing for one and a half years my trust in mainstream medicine, big pharma and health institutions is very much exhausted too.

What is happening right now concerning the anti-vaccine movement is the bill big pharma and health institutions get for their past corruption.


 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Zedman said:

I feel vax mandates rob you of that choice and force you to trust they are right. But how do you force trust?

Yeah, well, millions of lives are at stake so you can understand how your feelings about freedom are a lower priority.

Survival always trumps freedom because freedom is useless if you're dead.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Ima Freeman said:

What is happening right now concerning the anti-vaccine movement is the bill big pharma and health institutions get for their past corruption.

This is like throwing your PC at your mother's head because Windows had a bug, and then saying, "Well, this is what Micro$oft gets for being so bad."

[BadHippie]

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Survival always trumps freedom because freedom is useless if you're dead.

Wow, that sounds super stupid to me. Maybe you triggered something in me, but in my eyes being in survival mode means "being dead". You don´t really live life if you are in survival mode. 

Also your assumption may be true, but it´s still an assumption. Would be cool if you could show me your sensemaking-process, because I come to different conclusions after checking the primary sources for data - at least for Germany. 

PCR-Test, what qualifies as COVID-Dead, fatality-rate, etc. What are your views on these things? @Leo Gura

 

Also why should a healthy person take a vaccine which makes people sick, when I haven´t been sick in two years?

Edited December 14, 2021 by BadHippie

[Intense]

@BadHippie Basically the chance of you getting infected with the coronavirus in your life are really high. So you can put the chance that you will get (bad) covid against the chances of you getting side effects from the vaccine. The chances with covid are way higher. So from an ego perspective the vaccine is always the best option. 
 

From the perspective of the collective it shouldnt really matter if you take the vaccine since the vaccine does not protect against infecting other people. So the only people who suffer from people not vaccinating are the unvaccinated themselves. The only reason they want to vaccinate everyone is the hospitals do not get overflooded.

if you get sick of covid and are not vaccinated and you go to the hospital, you probably would not fill that spot if you had taken the vaccine. That is just a fact. 
 

I have had 2 shots of pfizer and literally felt nothing both times and in the periods after them.

[Intense]

If you dont believe in vaccines to boost your health because they are made by people, with the same logic you should not believe a chemical like LSD can raise consciousness. LSD was created in a lab so it literally the least natural thing you can take. Yet hippies take a lot of LSD

[BadHippie]

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Basically the chance of you getting infected with the coronavirus in your life are really high. So you can put the chance that you will get (bad) covid against the chances of you getting side effects from the vaccine. The chances with covid are way higher. So from an ego perspective the vaccine is always the best option. 

I´d disagree. Lmao, I made out with 3 girls last year who had Corona to test the Virus-Theory, yet didn´t get COVID. 
I don´t know if you read my other threads here, but I don´t buy into the Virus-Theory anymore. 

Where do you get those numbers from? And even if I would get COVID, what´s the problem with that. I don´t know a single person who had it and had problems with it, yet I know a lot of people who have "lasting" side effects from the vaccine, at least I interpret their problems as "lasting" effects. They were pretty healthy before taking the vaccine and now they are sick way more often than last year. 

 

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The only reason they want to vaccinate everyone is the hospitals do not get overflooded.

Again I have to disagree, that´s your interpretation. What we currently can see is the "medicalization of life" itself - (Medical Nemesis - Limits to Medicine) - check out the book if you are interested in a new perspective on medicine.

Here in Germany the hospitals were overflooded for the last 5 years at least, every single year. I have friends working as care-workers. Yet we closed over 20 hospitals in 2021. The problem doesn´t lie with COVID, it´s within the System itself - at least that´s my opinion. It wouldn´t be to hard for politics to change the paradigm around medical care, yet they don´t for example raise the salary for caregivers, they don´t build new hospitals, don´t train for care-givers - which we had enough time for. There are so many other options - yet politics obviously only show us the ones which is good for specific groups with asymmetrical power.


 

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if you get sick of covid and are not vaccinated and you go to the hospital, you probably would not fill that spot if you had taken the vaccine. That is just a fact. 

You can say the same for obesity - eating unhealthy, smoking cigarettes - getting cancer, and so on. Yet we don´t prohibit eating unhealthy food - we even promote it... It would safe way more lives to simply change a few systems in society than this bullshit fight against COVID - "that´s just a fact" as you said.

 

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If you dont believe in vaccines to boost your health because they are made by people, with the same logic you should not believe a chemical like LSD can raise consciousness. LSD was created in a lab so it literally the least natural thing you can take. Yet hippies take a lot of LSD

Except when you take LSD you know exactly what´s inside - at least I do. Your body doesn´t react to it as if it´s poison. You can feel that it raises consciousness by direct experience. And so on.

I really don´t get this comparison. I don´t have a problem with so called "man-made" chemical. What I have a problem with is other people telling me how to live a healthy lifestyle. 
 

This is exactly the problem with society... People believing they know what´s best for someone else. And obviously we always justify it by saying "it´s for the higher good" - check out history. There have been a lot of vaccine mandates already - especially in the US (Dissolving Illusions: Disease, Vaccines, and The Forgotten History)

Honestly it´s pretty annoying that we tend to forget history and won´t learn from it. 

[Zedman]

@BadHippie Lets get less triggered. Helps nobody. If you did some self work, now is time to use it. My rebellion has caused me grave losses but its ok.

I think in previous exchange we came little closer to the root issue. Its definitely not about research, data, books, numbers or facts. Its core life philosophy. And when I tried to explore arguments like ''lives are at stake'', ''survival trumps freedoms'' I understood there is no answer. When push comes to shove both sides will probably die by their interpretations. I guess in a separate thread it is worth exploring philosophy of this.

What are we trying to get here

1)Toxicity issue shows serious flaws in institutions that are responsible for our health

2)Same issues apply to current vaccine research, production and aspects of distribution

3)Vaccine safety research may be less flawed due to methodology (as explained by TheAlchemist)

Implications:

1)We have to put our trust in bad faith because situation is too serious and lives are at stake

2)Philosophical issues surrounding this are not brought up and addressed

[BlackPhil]

On 12/14/2021 at 5:04 PM, Leo Gura said:

This is like throwing your PC at your mother's head because Windows had a bug, and then saying, "Well, this is what Micro$oft gets for being so bad."

I think you people from the US might have abit of a distorted view on anyone criticizing these mRNA-shots. I think because you have your crazy gunwaving eveangelical/qanon/trumpists (or whatever you call them), who are "anti-vaxx" by default, you automatically, unconsciously, associate everyone being skeptical to what's happening with those people.

I think trying to look past this and being abit open minded to more perspectives would be healthy. Not everyone in the world who are questioning these "vaccines" belong to those groups or have anything else in common with them.

I might be wrong, but I get that impression.

Edited December 17, 2021 by BlackPhil

[Apparition of Jack]

I want to preface this by saying I am a student of science, believe in vaccines, masks, lockdowns etc and I would never jeopardise my intellectual integrity by falling into right-wing conspiracy nonsense.

However, this is just my own personal anecdote, but ever since having two Pfizer jabs (mRNA) in September my life has been considerably worse. My breathing is stunted, my thinking is weak, I have barely any energy, etc. It’s not just me who felt this way, my mother has noticed a severe drop in my activity levels and this is without me even mentioning anything to her. 
 

You are free to dismiss my account all you want but I genuinely believe there is something messed up about mRNA technology and that it’s causing way worse issues for people than is currently being reported on. We live in tense times so I understand the desire to not “give an inch” to conspiracy bullshit, but again I have to say I am still on the side of science and this is undeniably what I am going through. This is nothing to say of the stage Orange devilry Pfizer has been engaged in even before Covid was a thing.

Interestingly enough, all my friends/family who have had AstraZeneca (a conventional vaccine) haven’t had these bad side effects. I really think I got unlucky and took the screwed up vaccine over the one that’s safer and more reliable.

Damn.

[BadHippie]

@Apparition of Jack

Interesting, here in Germany AstraZeneca isn't even used (if I remember correctly, maybe it was just for one age group) anymore - because they say it's too dangerous.

It's so fascinating how science is different in every country... 

If you truly believe in science you should check out the virus-theory, maybe you will notice the big self-deception I noticed. 

[BlackPhil]

2 hours ago, BadHippie said:

@Apparition of Jack

Interesting, here in Germany AstraZeneca isn't even used (if I remember correctly, maybe it was just for one age group) anymore - because they say it's too dangerous.

It's so fascinating how science is different in every country... 

If you truly believe in science you should check out the virus-theory, maybe you will notice the big self-deception I noticed. 

Same here, AZ is not used and neither is Moderna for people under 30. Because the risk of hearth complications were deemed too high they both got stopped. Now it's coming out that Pfizer is probably just as bad tho.

I believe all mRNA is more or less poision for us tbh. Got nothing against classic vaccines.

I also know of several people who got very bad side effects. Sure it's anecdotal evidence and I'm not forcing anyone to believe me but not speaking out about this wouldn't feel right. People/different versions of you/me ARE getting hurt (and even dying) from mRNA-tech and this shouldnt be ignored.

Edited December 17, 2021 by BlackPhil