After the club - When I have the number pt.2

[ValiantSalvatore]

So I went out yesterday and applied the principles from the video from Leo as far as I can and I basically made out with a very attractive women in the club for 2h or so. We got pretty intimate making out and french kissing, we grinded also most of the time while dancing front to front back to front pretty hard she also went down my crotch and I hers with my hand. I asked if I could touch her bobbies and she agreed etc. I fondeled with them for some time and it was quite fun. I was quite drunk and received last minute resistence in front of her house and she asked me to exchange numbers. I basically continued to ask if I can come with you and just went till it really was a no in a sense. She also had a friend who was drunk which made things a bit difficult. 

@Leo Gura
What do I do from here on out? Ask to meet again to get out for a drink etc? Tbh, I still have no idea what I am doing I just acted based on what I knew and observed. I just want to make sure I am not overinvesting again, do I just shot a message today ask if her friend is doing fine and see if she is fine. She also talked about a party next week.

 

[Thought Art]

Congrats by the sounds of it. 

[Leo Gura]

You can set up a date without calling it that. But given how hard you escalated and didn't close, it's likely she will not meet up with you again. Still, give it a try.

If you do heavy escalation you must close. Burn it to the ground. Or, don't escalate so heavily.

The best game does not involve heavy making out in public because this tends to make girls defensive.

But if you're new, it's also good for you got get experience with make outs and heavy escalation. You must be able to do it effortlessly, but rarely deploy in public when running your best game.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Thought Art Thanks mate!

@Leo Gura Thanks for the feedback! I was unsure how to close and kept asking if I can come with her. I intuited that I'd had to close I don't know will see. The last minute resistance really kicked in.

It's odd how this still felt like building rapport.

Thanks definitely will keep this in mind. Are heavy escalation and make outs generally sparsely deployed even during night game? I do think during the day it definitely would be strange. 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by ValiantSalvatore

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

Are heavy escalation and make outs generally sparsely deployed even during night game?

If your game is good, yes. Because it will make girls more defensive about coming home with you.

But not always. You can certainly pull off heavy makeouts and close, but then you gotta be good at closing.

Makeouts and heavy esclation in public kill the sexual tension and mystery. It becomes too obvious what comes next.

[something_else]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Makeouts and heavy esclation in public kill the sexual tension and mystery. It becomes too obvious what comes next.

This is actually really good to know and I didn't really think of it like that. My approach has always been to take it as far as possible in the club physically and then try to close and you're right, once you take it that far you have to scale it way back down to handle the logistics of getting home before you ramp things back up again and something about that kills attraction for girls

Girls seem to have this thing where if you peak the sexual tension too early and don't close they lose all attraction for you. Why is that?

It might actually be one of the most frustrating things to experience as a dude. I just lost a date with one of the hottest girls I've ever talked to because she invited me over at like 1am after her night out, she was super into it, flirty texts, tons of tension, but I couldn't go, the next morning the vibe between us was killed stone dead and she flaked on our originally planned date a few days later

Edited December 13, 2021 by something_else

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Leo Gura ??

@something_else I presume because of this.

https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/what-turns-women-on-science

Quote

Looking to turn up the heat with or as a woman?

These findings suggest the secret lies in creating more emotional closeness, playing with the idea of mystery and discovery, and most importantly, making her feel valued and sexy.

As Esther Perel tells mbg, eroticism is largely a product of human imagination—it has less to do with physical sexuality and everything to do with the sexuality of the mind.

I don't quite understand how the mystery then is lost, I could understand it from a males pespective, yet not quite female. I do think from reading and she asked for my insta I already sort of showed her a big part of my world by making out and heavily escalating she can intuit how much experience etc. I have or potential. When she looses interest in that and just sees other guys in the club or even when going home. There is a lot new mystery and you basically have been already explored partially and discovered, as well as, emotional connection could have stopped somehow and just having most likely that initial spark of being seen as valued and sexy and then exploring that again that is fun. 

The other women that was part of her crew made out with a couple of guys and basically steadily received that validation. When I review that night and basically she will never loose interest in novelty, discovery and mystery from a sheer perspectival viewpoint. 
-----
She'll most likely will become defensive when the emotional connection is lost and depending on her standards etc. She from an individual perspective definitely can loose the opportunity of being seen as valued and sexy when she is seen as easy access and everybody made out with her. She basically closes herself of to exploring that mystery and building emotional connection because most high value guys then want nothing to do with her and the lower value guys will just not be able to produce the same kind of experience. Depending on her standards and she might even like it that way.

This is sort of my reflection closing and finding that opportune moment was not easy I basically had to force it a bit by staying proactive, yet still the whole process was messed up of mystery. It could have also been that her friend was the issue I did not take care of her properly as a friend of mine did it, yet he had no interest in her and I did not know that. Unsure just going through options and ideas. 

 

Sparking that imagination again of showing her your world and building emotional intimacy that thing has to close most likely at one point.

Edited December 13, 2021 by ValiantSalvatore

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, something_else said:

I just lost a date with one of the hottest girls I've ever talked to because she invited me over at like 1am after her night out, she was super into it, flirty texts, tons of tension, but I couldn't go, the next morning the vibe between us was killed

Of course it was killed.

When a girl is inviting you over at 1am, you better close cause you will never hear from her again.

[something_else]

39 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course it was killed.

When a girl is inviting you over at 1am, you better close cause you will never hear from her again.

Uhg, I know. I regret it. In my head I was thinking "well we have a date in a few days, I'm busy just now, it won't be a huge deal, we will just meet up then" but that was dumb in hindsight.

To add some context we had been chatting on snap for about a week and a half, we couldn't go on a date sooner cos I was away in another country. It was definitely more relationship kinda talk than hookup kinda talk so I figured if I didn't go hookup with her that night we would just go for coffee on the day we were planning. Guess that's not how girls think

32 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

Who cares about a date when she gave you the opportunity to fuck her brains out. You should’ve served her a meal of your pork sword.

Yea, I know. I was busy, she doesn't live that close. It wasn't practical. I figured it would not be a huge deal, but I regret it now. Oh well, valuable lesson learnt

[Leo Gura]

@something_else If you had plans for a date already, then perhaps you can still get her on a date. Keep trying

[something_else]

27 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@something_else If you had plans for a date already, then perhaps you can still get her on a date. Keep trying

I think it's past the point where if I send her a message it just comes across as needy. Our last conversation was:

 

Her: "Hey, I won't be able to make it today, I've taken a turn for the worse, and I have a spaceflight presentation due at 5" [she was hungover and studies aeromech for context. She also sent this about 20 mins after we confirmed the date, she even initiated it that morning "Hey so what are we doing today, still coffee at 2?" which was kinda weird that she would confirm it, then bail so soon after]

Me: "Sure, np, hope you feel better soon"

Her: "Thank you"

Me: "So you free any other days this week then? "

Her: "I'm free Thursday again but I might be really hungover again too"

Me: "I can take a hint  Was nice getting to know ya, good luck with your presentation"

Left on read

 

Re-reading this now I might have bailed a bit soon, however she was definitely much colder for the last few days we were chatting (after she invited me over at 1am) and so I already had my suspicions she was no longer interested. I also figure that if she was still interested she wouldn't have left me on read. Then again she also confirmed the date that morning???

My texts here were pretty crappy and boring as well because I was just frustrated that I'd spent like 2 weeks chatting with this girl and it was all going really well and then suddenly it all falls apart

I suppose I have nothing to lose by messaging her and trying to set up another date, but it would come across as incredibly needy

Edited December 13, 2021 by something_else

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, something_else said:

Her: "I'm free Thursday again but I might be really hungover again too"

Me: "I can take a hint  Was nice getting to know ya, good luck with your presentation"

What bullshit is this?

You self-ejected.

DO NOT self-eject!

You keep setting up the date logistics as long as she keeps replying. If it takes 3 weeks to get her ass out, then it take 3 weeks. Meanwhile you game other girls.

Girls are busy creatures. She is not giving you hints, she's just busy doing stupid shit. This is how girls are. They are always busy and you are nobody to her. She has zero investment in you, therefore you have lowest priority in her schedule. Get used to this. It will always be like this until sex.

I've had girls cancel dates on me for stupid reasons like, "I have to organize my kitchen". Then later after sex I tell her, "What the fuck were you thinking? You cancelled a date with me to organize your kitchen? Are you stupid?" And she says, "Oh, yeah, sorry. I was being dumb." That's how it is with most girls you try to date. They act like idiots until after you sleep with them. Then all the sudden they're invested and they act good. That's the power of investment.

[something_else]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What bullshit is this?

You self-ejected.

DO NOT self-eject!

You keep setting up the date logistics as long as she keeps replying. If it takes 3 weeks to get her ass out, then it take 3 weeks. Meanwhile you game other girls.

Girls are busy creatures. She is not giving you hints, she's just busy doing stupid shit. This is how girls are. They are always busy and you are nobody to her. She has zero investment in you, therefore you have lowest priority in her schedule. Get used to this. It will always be like this until sex.

Uhgggg I know I fucked it up, it's really cringy. It's so difficult to say the right things in these moments when you're emotionally invested in the situation. Especially when the girl's hot 

Would you say it's worth messaging her again? It's incredibly needy but hey what's the worst that can happen

 

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, something_else said:

Would you say it's worth messaging her again?

Yes, just ignore whatever happened before and text her afresh like you're setting up a casual date.

As long as she's responsive, she's interested. Be patient and go game other girls while she drags her feet.

You need to have a constant flow of new leads, new numbers, so that you are not invested into any one number. The problem is that you are not getting enough new numbers every week. Which is why you got needy with this girl. If you got 10 new numbers per week you would not care about this girl's feet-dragging. You are investing too much into each girl. They invest nothing in you. This is the crux of the matter.

[something_else]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, just ignore whatever happened before and text her afresh like you're setting up a casual date.

 

Will do, thanks!

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You need to have a constant flow of new leads, new numbers, so that you are not invested into any one number. The problem is that you are not getting enough new numbers every week. Which is why you got needy with this girl. If you got 10 new numbers per week you would not care about this girl's feet-dragging. You are investing too much into each girl. They invest nothing in you. This is the crux of the matter.

Normally I'm chatting to at least 3 or 4 different girls at any given time but I didn't go to clubs this weekend cos I had unbearable toothache and the week before I was away on holiday. I spoke to a few girls while I was away and slept with one but obviously that all falls apart when you leave. So for that few days after I was back home she was really the only girl I was talking to and I'm sure the neediness showed up a lot because of that

She was also hot and we shared a lot of interests which can make it even harder not to become needy. I noticed myself thinking a lot more about what I texted her than what I texted other girls which is probably a sign I was way too invested as well

[FlyingLotus]

10 hours ago, something_else said:

It might actually be one of the most frustrating things to experience as a dude. I just lost a date with one of the hottest girls I've ever talked to because she invited me over at like 1am after her night out, she was super into it, flirty texts, tons of tension, but I couldn't go, the next morning the vibe between us was killed stone dead and she flaked on our originally planned date a few days later

What did you specifically say to her when you rejected her invitation to come over?  

 

If you want to know how to reject sex from someone you like, watch this video.  In this case you'd be the woman and she's the guy wanting sex.  

Edited December 13, 2021 by FlyingLotus

[something_else]

46 minutes ago, FlyingLotus said:

What did you specifically say to her when you rejected her invitation to come over?  

 

If you want to know how to reject sex from someone you like, watch this video.  In this case you'd be the woman and she's the guy wanting sex.  

Oh it wasn't a rejection lol. If it was practical I'd have been there in a heartbeat. We ended up just flirting a bit back and forth over text when I said I couldn't come over

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Leo Gura What is a good/effective way to close? I basically was persistant and non-needy till in front of her door she said no, when I asked can I come with you. Yet was not really resistant in my opinion I just did not want to force it, because at that point it would have felt needy. Yet, it's not easy to evaluate and the other girl was not fully receptive and was just not as attractive as well as was not attracted to me from my point of view.

Before she asked me if I'd join for kebab. At the kebab she basically said no the whole time I still persisted and she still followed in a sense as I was leading. There was some other stuff happening around and I had to make sure people are not being retarded and kill the other girl. This city/region is quite rowdy. 

• She was still receptive to touches
• I basically just applied some gentleman principles moved her out of retards who'd just straight up crash into her
• Holding hands
• We kissed at the end I was suprised that she was still open to that
• So IOI was still on

----
Anyway did not receive a message till now.

What do do from here on out. Last thing I can do is send out insta. As she asked for it. Texting already for more leads.

Edited December 13, 2021 by ValiantSalvatore

[Leo Gura]

Girls will give you many excuses and silly nos. You gotta counter all her objections.

For example: if you say, can I come with you, and she says no, you can say, don't worry, I'm really chill, I don't expect anything, we can just chill and listen to music.

You basically need a counter for every one of her excuses. Make her feel comfortable, safe, and no pressure.

And yes, lead!

[FlyingLotus]

2 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

At the kebab she basically said no the whole time I still persisted

If a girl has to keep saying no to you, that’s a bad sign.

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Make her feel comfortable, safe, and no pressure.

This is important.  But if she keeps saying no no no, you should focus on a different girl or gracefully bow out.

 

10 hours ago, something_else said:

I figured if I didn't go hookup with her that night we would just go for coffee on the day we were planning. Guess that's not how girls think

3 hours ago, something_else said:

If it was practical I'd have been there in a heartbeat.

If this happens again with a different girl, make it clear that you want to go but can’t because of some very, very good reason.  Emphasize that you’re looking forward to seeing her later this week.  Do you have an important business meeting first thing in the morning?  A flight to catch?  Would you love to come over, but want to get to know her better because you really like her?  Communicate this to her.  The fact that you can’t name a specific, important reason is a red flag.   

I hate to break it to you, but her loss of attraction makes perfect sense.   

She was offering you hot sex on a silver platter.  That’s very valuable and sought after, and your response was “it wasn't practical.”  In life, highly valuable things are usually difficult to acquire.  She’s probably thinking,

   a) “he’s not coming over because he’s not attracted to me.  I should focus on someone who is interested.”

   b) “he’s attracted, but doesn’t like putting effort into getting what he wants.  If he can’t seal the deal when things are easy, how’s he going to act when things are difficult?”

It'd be like going on a fancy date with a girl and she shows up looking like a slob with no makeup.  Her unwillingness to put in effort when you're offering something valuable is a turn off. 

Like in the video above, you can communicate interest and let someone down at the same time.  You can even do it in a way that increases attraction.

Sorry if this sounds harsh.  Just trying to be helpful!

Edited December 14, 2021 by FlyingLotus