Got pericarditis from second Moderna vaccine, encouraged by Leo

[wellbranding]

Ok, so I was very hesitant of taking Covid vaccine since I am very young and athletic and have very strong immune system. I did not want to take it, but after reading @Leo Gura encouragement in the blog I still stook it... I took the first shot and it made my heartbeat go up. It all returned back to the normal. Then I was in doubt for a month and still took the second shot, out of fear. And then was diagnosed with pericarditis... This is very serious disease. 5 months passed I still feel symptoms, can't workout. Moral of the story don't listen to anybody, Leo or someone else. Listen to your body. I would also advise Leo stop spreading false and unproven info about covid or vaccines. You are not biochemist, you don't understand how different our bodies are. Many athletes got issues from this vaccine.

I know this sounds very emotional, but please Leo think about how your advices can inpact people and etc. Covid vaccines especially mRNA are very dangerous for young male people, because of the spike protein. Swedish banned them, other countries will follow. Also all my life I never took drugs, eat very clean food and had good energy levels. One vaccine made permanent damage. How can you call this vaccine safe, when such damages occur? 

If you are so smart, then please suggest some advices on how to treat it, because guess what - the conventional medicine I took did not heal me fully. However, I feel you rather ban this thead than actually providing a response...

Edited December 12, 2021 by wellbranding
grammar

[egoeimai]

Im so sorry. Take care of yourself ?

[Preety_India]

I'm sorry you're going through this. Thanks for spreading awareness. 

I hope this thing resolves. 

Meanwhile please look into herbal medicines for your condition. 

Get in touch with holistic practitioners in your local Town/city. 

 

[hyruga]

Sorry to hear.

Did you exercise or lift a lot of weights within 1 or 2 weeks after the 2nd shot?

Edited December 12, 2021 by hyruga

[King Merk]

Sorry to hear that man.

There’s risk involved with anything you do in life. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t 

[Yarco]

Unfortunately you'll be seen by the medical establishment as just a statistic, a necessary evil that they think had to be done for the greater good.

Trying to conceptualize how many elderly lives are worth saving to inflict this condition on 1 person is past my ethical and philosophical abilities, but the fact that scientists and experts seem to not consider it at all is deeply troubling. Especially when refusal of the shot is effectively impossible in many countries now if you want to be able to keep your job or not be fined by your government.

I'm sorry this happened to you. Heart tissue never heals, they have basically turned you from a healthy young person into someone with the heart of a 60 year old for the rest of your life. They fucked you over. 

Here in Canada we allegedly have a "national vaccine injury compensation program" that you can claim against if something like this happens, I'd check if your country has something similar. I don't know how much it is or how long you get it, but IMO anybody permanently disabled as a result of vaccines basically deserves a full-time wage paid by the government for the rest of their life.

[Opo]

If he didn't encourage it more people would suffer. 

Sry you were the unlucky one. 

[Michael569]

@wellbranding there are rare side effects that one in ten thousand will experience. Maybe you were unlucky and maybe you had a lingering infection you did not know about and the vaccination slightly weakened your immune system and tipped you over the fence. Maybe you have a genetic predisposition there and maybe you already had pericaditis but mild and in control by your white blood cells. 

Make sure you don't blame Leo for something YOU chose to do. Taking vaccine was your decision. all the major organisation in the world will encourage you to get vaccinated because 99.99% of people are fine. If you blame Leo, blame WHO, blame NHS, blame CDC, blame the American Red Cross, hell you should even blame WWF and GreenPeace, I don't see you doing that. 

Leo did what we should be doing, encouraging people to get vaccinated because it prevents people from dying, statistically at least. Yes there are odd cases where it doesn't work, where it doesn't help or where it produces side effects. It doesn't mean you should stop listening to people or authorities. You were just unfortunate, I'm sorry about that and wish you swift recovery. We have a medic on the forum @undeather maybe he can shine some light here. 

Also, consider that maybe it was just unlucky misfortune of events and the vaccine had no role in that even if it seems impossible, it could have been. But it shouldn't stop you from reporting this to your medical services so that it can be tracked by research 

Hope you'll feel better soon! 

[Leo Gura]

There is potential for side effects with any medication. That's the nature of medicine. There are also side effects to Covid. The issue has always been the delta between the two risks, which is far in favor of vaccines.

[Thought Art]

I took it and I am fine.

[AndylizedAAY]

So the forum agrees overall that the vaccine should be taken right? Now I cannot remember all of the other examples nor should I rely on hearsay but I would like to ask some question instead. What is a good general rule of thumb to call a group of people conspiracy theorists? Would we call Republicans and Democrats conspiracy theorists? If you are on the extreme on one side then you might. You also need to make a decision because either you take the vaccine or you don't. I actually know the people more (not specifying who) who are anti-vaccers and yet my knowledge of the vaccine is still weak for either side. Isn't all this information just more heresy? 

Edited December 12, 2021 by AndylizedAAY
I asked more than one question.

[Thought Art]

Ultimately, you are responsible for you.

Also, there is risk to everything.

Statistically the condition you have is pretty rare. 

It's also a side effect of covid itself right?

Edited December 12, 2021 by Thought Art

[herghly]

personally, I know 3 people who had a similar response as you.  This needs to be talked about more

[undeather]

First of all, I am sorry that you have to go trough all this. An adverse event caused by any medical intervention just sucks, especially if the direct benefit of such internvetion is propably miniscule in young patients.

You have to realize that you are an outlier in this case, since close to 100% of vacc-recipients do not encounter any long term side effects after getting the jab. How would I know? Well, I have personally vaccinated myriads of patients in the last year, none of which reported any crazy adverse events besides the usual stuff (pain, fever, headaches..). The hospital I work at is also one of the main centres who work with long covid/vaccine-injury patients. We just dont see our clinic getting overrun by vaccinated zombies. The only unit that struggles is our critical care unit because of the 90% unvaccinated patients that rely on intensive medical procedures to survive. This goes hand in hand with the available data and is consistent with the anecdotal evidence of first line heatlh workers around the globe.

Every medical intervention is at its core a risk/benefit calculation. Any intervention that is enforced on a global level will reveal even the slightest signal. So far, we have adminstered more than 8 billion doses of the vaccine - so any side effect that can happen will happen. Neither Leo, nor your body or your favorite vaccination-conspiracy can tell how you are gointo react to it beforehand. Its basically Schrödingers-vaccination where the subject survives 99,999% of the time. The same goes for the covid-19 disease. You could be a healthy, 20 year old with zero medical conditions and the virus could still fuck up your lungs irreversibly. Its rare, but it happens and I have seen it happening. I have witnessed a healthy 29 year old dying from Covid - unvaccinated. See, there is no certainty in anything - especially when it comes to complex and chaotic systems. Our minds of course, try to to cling onto every piece of illusory certainty there is - and thats where all the anti-vaxx nonsense comes in. All we have is propability and the informed decisions we could base on that proxy. 

Myocarditis/Pericarditis is a well known side effect of the mRNA-Vaccines and depending on what statistic you look like, its incidence is about 1 in 10.000-20.000 (with Moderna). Pfizer comes with a significantly lower chance of developing such events. The reason behind that is propably the lower dose of actual mRNA in the drug. Each shot of Pfizer contains 30 micrograms of mRNA, while each one of Moderna contains 100. Moderna comes with a slightly better outcome regarding hospitalization and death. 

I would not recommend any person below the age of 30 to get the Moderna shot. The risk/reward equation is tilted into the wrong direction in my opinion. If you are below 30, have comorbidities or risk factors and the Moderna shot is the only one available - take it. Otherwise, everyone between 15 & 30 should get Pfizer and thats propably better than not getting it at all. Everyone above 30 should get any shot available + boosters, regardless of comorbidities or risk factors. I do not necessarily recommend the vaccination below the age of 15. There is a new preprint regarding Covid-risk in children, which is pretty clear on that issue IMO: 38669115 (medrxiv.org)

Its not true that Sweden banned mRNA-Vaccines in general, they stopped vaccinating the young (<30) with Moderna and thats a completely rational decision (as mentioned above). Pfizer (which is a mRNA vacc. as well) is still the go-to option for everyone. As you can see, there are systems in place that look at global events regarding vaccination and their adverse effects. We saw the smoking pistol in the vector-based agents (Astrazeneca, J&J..) with the thrombogenic effects and we did see it again with in Moderna. Suppressing such data on a worldwide scale is impossible. 

Regarding your pericarditis: Most cases will heal out without any lasting damage to your heart. I dont know your specific condition but you should definitely talk to a local cardiologist about that. I cant raelly help you with the prognosis because I would need to take a look at your test-results. Is there scar tissue in the pericard? Is there a reduced ventricular output etc. There are alternative methods of dealing with this issue but I would wait and trust your local healthcare provider for now. Thats the only rational thing you can do at the moment. As I mentioned, most cases go back to normal, it just takes time. Any premature alternative treatment over the internet is highly amoral and could make matters worse. 

PS:
The Pfizer vaccine seems to come with a high tolerability, even in elite athletes. 2 days ago, The Lancet published a decent paper about this issue:
Tolerability and impact of SARS-CoV-2 vaccination in elite athletes - The Lancet Respiratory Medicine

Edited December 12, 2021 by undeather

[wellbranding]

6 hours ago, hyruga said:

Sorry to hear.

Did you exercise or lift a lot of weights within 1 or 2 weeks after the 2nd shot?

No.. I was aware of this. 

[wellbranding]

25 minutes ago, undeather said:

First of all, I am sorry that you have to go trough all this. An adverse event caused by any medical intervention just sucks, especially if the direct benefit of such internvetion is propably miniscule in young patients.

You have to realize that you are an outlier in this case, since close to 100% of vacc-recipients do not encounter any long term side effects after getting the jab. How would I know? Well, I have personally vaccinated myriads of patients in the last year, none of which reported any crazy adverse events besides the usual stuff (pain, fever, headaches..). The hospital I work at is also one of the main centres who work with long covid/vaccine-injury patients. We just dont see our clinic getting overrun by vaccinated zombies. The only unit that struggles is our critical care unit because of the 90% unvaccinated patients that rely on intensive medical procedures to survive. This goes hand in hand with the available data and is consistent with the anecdotal evidence of first line heatlh workers around the globe.

Every medical intervention is at its core a risk/benefit calculation. Any intervention that is enforced on a global level will reveal even the slightest signal. So far, we have adminstered more than 8 billion doses of the vaccine - so any side effect that can happen will happen. Neither Leo, nor your body or your favorite vaccination-conspiracy can tell how you are gointo react to it beforehand. Its basically Schrödingers-vaccination where the subject survives 99,999% of the time. The same goes for the covid-19 disease. You could be a healthy, 20 year old with zero medical conditions and the virus could still fuck up your lungs irreversibly. Its rare, but it happens and I have seen it happening. I have witnessed a healthy 29 year old dying from Covid - unvaccinated. See, there is no certainty in anything - especially when it comes to complex and chaotic systems. Our minds of course, try to to cling onto every piece of illusory certainty there is - and thats where all the anti-vaxx nonsense comes in. All we have is propability and the informed decisions we could base on that proxy. 

Myocarditis/Pericarditis is a well known side effect of the mRNA-Vaccines and depending on what statistic you look like, its incidence is about 1 in 10.000-20.000 (with Moderna). Pfizer comes with a significantly lower chance of developing such events. The reason behind that is propably the lower dose of actual mRNA in the drug. Each shot of Pfizer contains 30 micrograms of mRNA, while each one of Moderna contains 100. Moderna comes with a slightly better outcome regarding hospitalization and death. 

I would not recommend any person below the age of 30 to get the Moderna shot. The risk/reward equation is tilted into the wrong direction in my opinion. If you are below 30, have comorbidities or risk factors and the Moderna shot is the only one available - take it. Otherwise, everyone between 15 & 30 should get Pfizer and thats propably better than not getting it at all. Everyone above 30 should get any shot available + boosters, regardless of comorbidities or risk factors. I do not necessarily recommend the vaccination below the age of 15. There is a new preprint regarding Covid-risk in children, which is pretty clear on that issue IMO: 38669115 (medrxiv.org)

Its not true that Sweden banned mRNA-Vaccines in general, they stopped vaccinating the young (<30) with Moderna and thats a completely rational decision (as mentioned above). Pfizer (which is a mRNA vacc. as well) is still the go-to option for everyone. As you can see, there are systems in place that look at global events regarding vaccination and their adverse effects. We saw the smoking pistol in the vector-based agents (Astrazeneca, J&J..) with the thrombogenic effects and we did see it again with in Moderna. Suppressing such data on a worldwide scale is impossible. 

Regarding your pericarditis: Most cases will heal out without any lasting damage to your heart. I dont know your specific condition but you should definitely talk to a local cardiologist about that. I cant raelly help you with the prognosis because I would need to take a look at your test-results. Is there scar tissue in the pericard? Is there a reduced ventricular output etc. There are alternative methods of dealing with this issue but I would wait and trust your local healthcare provider for now. Thats the only rational thing you can do at the moment. As I mentioned, most cases go back to normal, it just takes time. Any premature alternative treatment over the internet is highly amoral and could make matters worse. 

PS:
The Pfizer vaccine seems to come with a high tolerability, even in elite athletes. 2 days ago, The Lancet published a decent paper about this issue:
Tolerability and impact of SARS-CoV-2 vaccination in elite athletes - The Lancet Respiratory Medicine

Thanks for the support all of you! Thanks for information! I am actually sorry for @Leo Gura... If it wasn't for Leo, I would be in much worse place. Maybe I just needed to create this negative post... It was deviled act, I know it. 
 

Regarding my condition, I got the conventional treatment from the doctors - strong antiflamantory, no colchicine, because they did not administer it in  Lithuania for some reason. Right now my condition is indeed much better, I have done echo and stress test past month - I am healed, but still feel some presssure, but no pain. I will have MRI scan soon to check final condition and whether scaring exists.

After I have full information I will create a new post. Ironically this whole painful experience lead me to the most spiritual development and multiple awakenings. I also did natural healing, reiki and etc. Will share full information.

 

I wanted to make this post much earlier, but I was hesitant. Today I feel much better, but still wake up and had some chest pressure so emotions triggered my ego backlash. I think we can lock this thread, until I will have full info and can share it with all of you  Much love and sorry for my angry message, I am actually in tears right now ?

Edited December 12, 2021 by wellbranding

[Spiral Wizard]

5 hours ago, wellbranding said:

Ironically this whole painful experience lead me to the most spiritual development and multiple awakenings

??❤️

[Gregory1]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is potential for side effects with any medication. That's the nature of medicine. There are also side effects to Covid. The issue has always been the delta between the two risks, which is far in favor of vaccines.

This.

[happyhappy]

@AndylizedAAY yes... i guess the forum agrees to take the vaccine. i myself did!

here's the catch, it is not so easy to call some group a conspiracy theorist without a lot of inquiry in to their claims.  all conspiracy theory contains some truth to it.but that truth will often be exaggerated and marred to scapegoat some party. check out leo's episode on conspiracy theory .

[wellbranding]

49 minutes ago, happyhappy said:

@AndylizedAAY yes... i guess the forum agrees to take the vaccine. i myself did!

here's the catch, it is not so easy to call some group a conspiracy theorist without a lot of inquiry in to their claims.  all conspiracy theory contains some truth to it.but that truth will often be exaggerated and marred to scapegoat some party. check out leo's episode on conspiracy theory .

I think it is not a conspiracy. Just the creators of vaccine don't have a high consciousness. Human health is mystery, they are clueless and yet use vaccine. Take the Moderna example. Innitialy it was good, now they claim it is bad for young people. I am actually baffled how ignorant they are. This game me a lesson to never trust low consciousness people and inventions again.