Where is the promissed herd immunity?

[rnd]

In the 1st world countries the vaccination rate is 60...90%, even close to 100% in some smaller countries.
For the herd immunity around 60% is enough.

So, where is the herd immunity promissed by the governemtns and mass media, by "doctors",  by vaccinated warriours, around a year ago?
Everyone has forgotten already?

Instead, there're new lockdowns, more cases and more deaths in the most vaccinated countries. In some countries, more so than when noone was vaccinated.
More vaccinated, more cases, and more deaths, that is. Not less, not the same, but more!

Who, or what, to blame this time?

Where is that promissed heard immunity?

Edited December 12, 2021 by rnd

[Preety_India]

Herd immunity. Isn't herd immunity supposed to take years and years and decades. 

Right now Corona is just a baby in the cradle. 

Forgive this baby since it does not know what it has done. 

Herd immunity is as much an illusion as Boris Johnson's hair. 

Corona never promised anything other than what Corona delivered. 

 

[rnd]

it's not supposed to take years, let alone decades. It's gradual, but relatively fast - months.
But not with this "cure"


I want to listen to yet new explanation of "what has gone wrong this time" of those who've been claiming that mass vaccination will safe us all. And that getting a vaccine is "to care about your community"

So, mass vaccination in the 1st world countries, and not only, has happened. 75% on average. Where is the promissed herd immunity in those?

Edited December 12, 2021 by rnd

[Yarco]

33 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Isn't herd immunity supposed to take years and years and decades. 

It has nothing to do with time. It's % people exposed to the virus, % vaccinated, or a combination of the two

Theoretically if you could get all citizens of a country into one multi-million people gathering intermingling for a few hours, you could achieve herd immunity through a single event, Although then you'd get all the people who need to be hospitalized all at once and totally overwhelm the hospital system as well.

[Hardkill]

The top medical and scientific experts in this country including Fauci and Gottlieb have already mentioned several months ago that reaching herd immunity is no longer going to be possible within the US. The best that the country can now achieve is to have the COVID pandemic become an regular endemic thing within the nation like how seasonal flus are.

[SgtPepper]

I wish you would provide some sources so I actually see what you are talking about.

If I look up Singapore which had early and high vaccination rates, they've have had significantly less covid hospitalization. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1103601/singapore-coronavirus-active-cases-breakdown/ 

"As of November 18, 2021, 1,435 people in Singapore were hospitalized due to COVID-19. Out of these, 226 cases were severe and required oxygen supplementation, while 113 were in critical condition in the ICU. To date, 625 deaths have so far been attributed to COVID-19."

This is way less than USA.

If I am wrong, please tell me and give me some evidence and rationale.

[Carl-Richard]

You can thank the new variants for that.

[rnd]

5 hours ago, SgtPepper said:

If I look up Singapore which had early and high vaccination rates, they've have had significantly less covid hospitalization. 

Except that recently Singapore has had, or perhaps still has, a spike in a) cases b) deaths
after 95% of vaccination!

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by rnd

[rnd]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

You can thank the new variants for that.

And that's what those, I fugure, "against vaccines" somehow invisioned and therefore resisted vaccination, among other reasons,  whereas those "vaccine will save us all once everyone gets 2 shots" -- did not.

[Tim R]

16 minutes ago, rnd said:

Except that recently Singapore has had, or perhaps still has, a spike in a) cases b) deaths
after 95% of vaccination!

 

Yes. the more cases, the more deaths. Makes sense, no?

Now, concerning the vaccination: there have been extremely low vaccination rates in Singapore over the last 2 months but extremely high levels of new cases. Most vaccines have been administered almost half a year ago, which means that immunity is starting to decline. The CFR for Singapore is only 0,29% (which is quite low in comparison with most countries). It's not because the vaccines aren't working, but because of the high levels of infections. 

You have to look at all the data to create a more or less coherent explanation.

 

[rnd]

26 minutes ago, Tim R said:

Now, concerning the vaccination: there have been extremely low vaccination rates in Singapore over the last 2 months but extremely high levels of new cases.

Where did those "new cases" come from, in the first place?  By the way, everyone wears a muzzle, and those also are effective -- people claim.
 

26 minutes ago, Tim R said:

Most vaccines have been administered almost half a year ago, which means that immunity is starting to decline. The CFR for Singapore is only 0,29% (which is quite low in comparison with most countries). It's not because the vaccines aren't working, but because of the high levels of infections. 

c-19 vaccines work, yeah, but, as always -- a dozen of conditions have to be met first, in order for them to work:

a) short period of time, during which it's still effective b) absense of new variants c) person already has to be more or less healthy d) person must not have any specific alergic reactions

and so on.

Other than that .... they work!
 

Edited December 12, 2021 by rnd

[w4read]

2 minutes ago, rnd said:

And that's what those, I fugure, "against vaccines" somehow invisioned and therefore resisted vaccination, among other reasons,  whereas those "vaccine will save us all once everyone gets 2 shots" -- did not.

As far as i understand, we can praise ourselves extremely lucky that omicron is, most likely, significantly less lethal than any other variant we've had. It could might as well be the other way around, which with the same transmissibility would be a totally new proportion of crisis.

And vaccines seem to help, as with the other variants, with relatively less vaccinated people being hospitalized with omicron so far.

[Tim R]

14 minutes ago, rnd said:

Where did those "new cases" come from, in the first place?  By the way, everyone wears a muzzle, and those also are effective -- people claim.

It's a thing in every country where a high percentage of people have been vaccinated and it's this:

People feel a lot safer when vaccinated (which they mostly are!) and therefore it becomes easier to spread the virus. Because they start to drop precautionary measures to stop the spread. They might get infected and infect others, but they will either not show any symptoms at all or only very mild symptoms. That's why they won't even know that they've been infected / are infectious. And then they infect unvaccinated people, a lot of which (especially with a compromised immune system) will have a more severe case. 

14 minutes ago, rnd said:

A vaccine work, but, as always -- a dozen of conditions have to be met first, in order for it to work:

a) short period of time, during which it's still effective b) absense of new variants c) person already has to be more or healthy d) person must not have any specific alergic reactions

Not quite true.

a) Yes, the vaccine is only effective for a certain duration.

b) not really. So far, there hasn't been a variant which would render the vaccine impotent. 

c) Not true at all. Unhealthy people benefit a great deal more from the vaccine than healthy people because it substantially lowers their risk for a severe case.

d) Lol. Read about allergic reactions:

Quote

Reactions with features of anaphylaxis following administration of both mRNA COVID-19 vaccines have been reported in the United Kingdom, the United States, Japan, and elsewhere [1,2,4,14]. The incidence of these reactions may be higher with these vaccines than with other vaccines, but the events are still rare. Reported rates vary with the surveillance method: 2.5 to 4.7 events per million with passive reporting [5], 4.8 to 5.1 events per million with active surveillance [15] and 7.91 events per million in a meta-analysis of adjudicated cases with one markedly higher outlier [4].

https://www.uptodate.com/contents/covid-19-allergic-reactions-to-sars-cov-2-vaccines

Quote

As of December 23, 2020, a reported 1,893,360 first doses of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine had been administered in the United States, and reports of 4,393 (0.2%) adverse events after receipt of Pfizer BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine had been submitted to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). Among these, 175 case reports were identified for further review as possible cases of severe allergic reaction, including anaphylaxis. Anaphylaxis is a life-threatening allergic reaction that does occur rarely after vaccination, with onset typically within minutes to hours (3). Twenty-one cases were determined to be anaphylaxis (a rate of 11.1 per million doses administered), including 17 in persons with a documented history of allergies or allergic reactions, seven of whom had a history of anaphylaxis. 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7002e1.htm

 

[rnd]

4 minutes ago, Tim R said:

People feel a lot safer when vaccinated (which they mostly are!) and therefore it becomes easier to spread the virus. Because they start to drop precautionary measures to stop the spread. They might get infected and infect others, but they will either not show any symptoms at all or only very mild symptoms. That's why they won't even know that they've been infected / are infectious. And then they infect unvaccinated people, a lot of which (especially with a compromised immune system) will have a more severe case. 

You've just described the way it's spread. But I ask "where do those vaccinated people in Singapore get it from?" Almost everyone there is a) vaccinated b) wears a muzzle c) it's hard to get into the country now

 

---

No matter how you slice it, it all comes down to one's health. A relatively healthy person recovers without a vaccine with ease. An unhealthy one might benefit from a c-19 vaccine, because the latter is the only remedy left for thim.

And fully vaccinated somehow end up in hospital and die too. Those are the ones with bad health.

[Tim R]

4 minutes ago, rnd said:

You've just described the way it's spread. But I ask "where do those vaccinated people in Singapore get it from?" Almost everyone there is a) vaccinated b) wears a muzzle c) it's hard to get into the country now

Only because you're vaccinated that doesn't mean you can't get infected or infect others, you know that, right? The risk is lower, but still. And with Delta or Omicron it's a bit more tricky because they are more infectious. I think the data makes perfect sense.

5 minutes ago, rnd said:

A relatively healthy person recovers without a vaccine with ease. An unhealthy one might benefit from a c-19 vaccine, because the latter is the only remedy left for him.

And fully vaccinated somehow end up in hospital and die too. Those are the ones with bad health.

Mostly agree, yes.

[rnd]

31 minutes ago, w4read said:

As far as i understand, we can praise ourselves extremely lucky that omicron is, most likely, significantly less lethal than any other variant we've had. It could might as well be the other way around, which with the same transmissibility would be a totally new proportion of crisis.

There're thousands of viruses in the world. All amoung us. Many very dangerous. Why don't  you praise God every day that passes by, that you haven't gotten infected with those?

[w4read]

19 minutes ago, rnd said:

There're thousands of viruses in the world. All amoung us. Many very dangerous. Why don't  you praise God every day that passes by, that you haven't gotten infected with those?

Well, I guess there's nothing wrong with doing that. At least during the covid pandemic I've been pretty thankful for all the good news that have come, when fear of something much worse was present. 

But then I'm not a fortune teller like those anti vax people you are talking about, so I guess it does't count lol.

[rnd]

2 hours ago, Tim R said:

Only because you're vaccinated that doesn't mean you can't get infected or infect others, you know that, right? The risk is lower, but still. And with Delta or Omicron it's a bit more tricky because they are more infectious. I think the data makes perfect sense.

Yes. But who are those others in Singapore, if 95% has been vaccinated? There're no others. Or you imply that the people there were getting vaccinated while being infected?

---

By the way, there's a wrong dilema here.
Apart from those vaccines, there's a drug - Ivermectine - which has been around for decades. Cheap and safe. You get it only when, and if, you've been infected and feel that you might end up in a hospital.

Compare that to these experimental vaccines that have been around for a year, that you should get no matter what, and every half a year, and which most people get forced to take against their will.

Edited December 12, 2021 by rnd

[Carl-Richard]

 

13 minutes ago, rnd said:

Yes. But who are those others in Singapore, if 95% has been vaccinated? There're no others.

Singapore is at 83.4% of population fully vaccinated. The 95% statistic you're referring to is dealing with a certain age limit. Learn to represent statistics accurately.

[rnd]

4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Singapore is at 83.4% of population fully vaccinated. The 95% statistic you're referring to is dealing with a certain age limit. Learn to represent statistics accurately.

Alright. But where's the herd immunity there?