Why are modern men so weak?

[Lyubov]

1 hour ago, hoodrow trillson said:

Redpill just makes low quality men think they're hot shit and become unnecessarily aggressive towards women.  

All they do is scare all the hoes away.  Redpill men are so fucking annoying lol.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Lyubov That's what I mean why group him there? According to these sites they just group him there. I have the image of some red pill nazi doing what the fuck he wants and gangbanging some rando girl into the wall screaming fuck yeah murica. Uh. Smash.

I don't think these books correspond with that image at all. No idea still what red pill is about neither am I that interested lol.

Edited December 9, 2021 by ValiantSalvatore

[Lyubov]

1 hour ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

@Lyubov That's what I mean why group him there? According to these sites they just group him there. I have the image of some red pill nazi doing what the fuck he wants and gangbanging some rando girl into the wall screaming fuck yeah murica. Uh. Smash.

I don't think these books correspond with that image at all. No idea still what red pill is about neither am I that interested lol.

Red pill likes to rope in stuff and borrow from more credible sources. It's a common thing when it comes to ideology and group think. Nazi ideology borrowed heavily from all sorts of scientists and top thinkers at the time to warp it around and justify their bullshit. 

[itachi uchiha]

@ValiantSalvatore way of men explain masculinity better than david dieda

[itachi uchiha]

@Opo i cannot explain a 300 page book.read way of men.

 

 

[blessedlion1993]

@bloomer

I didnt read your whole post but you seem to be pretty brainwashed. It's okay, I used to think like this as well

 

"We have no god. God is dead and all that jazz."

Bullshit. God is never dead and you can always connect to your higher self and spirituality. This is some athiest nihilistic wimp shit to say.

"We have no family. The family structure is under constant attack and is fucked,"

Bullshit. I have a very close family with tons of support and love. This totally depends on your family and if they are brainwashed.

"We have no positive male role models. "

Bullshit, you just have to find them. I do agree the mainstream ones like Tai Lopez, Joe Rogan, even David Goggins are pretty toxic

"We have no country. We have this entho masochistic worldview where the west is evil and the root of the worlds ills."

Then fucking move, that's what i did and i have a community and culture. I used to live in America, where i was raised. Now I actually am so unplugged from the psychosis of the west it's unbeleivably refreshing

"We have no purpose, because we have none of the things that used to give us purpose."

You are a breathing living human being, create purpose, there are infinite things to give your life purpose. Quit pouting

[Opo]

6 hours ago, itachi uchiha said:

@Opo i cannot explain a 300 page book.read way of men.

I didn't ask you to. 

[Yarco]

Soy in the food and birth control in the water

Look at almost any processed food and it'll have soy lecithin, soy flour, soybean oil, etc. Having a partner who is allergic to soy has made me acutely aware of how crazily prevalent soy is in everything.

Guys are stressed out (high cortisol), not getting enough sleep, not doing any exercise, overweight. A perfect storm of things that cause low testosterone.

Natural male behavior like rough-housing is deemed toxic masculinity or bullying and completely suppressed in our schools so boys aren't allowed to be boys any more, let alone men. You've got a society that snapped back so hard into response to masculinity that they aren't just neutral to non-masculine guys, it actively encourages and rewards dudes to put on makeup and dresses and looks at traditional masculinity as evil.

10 hours ago, Jacob Morres said:

I don't think previous generations were stronger though. Our previous generations were fucked up and traumatized... 

I think people are glorifying the past generations. They were way more unconscious as a whole than today's people 

I think it's conflating two separate issues.

You can be incredibly fucked up and traumatized but still be strong. Strength is being able to suppress trauma for months and years, and go into pure survival mode to focus on doing what needs to be done. Whether that's going to war, providing for your family, or whatever.

It'd be nice for men to be strong without having PTSD. But the alternative is totally fragile and weak men that turn into a blubbering mess if things go wrong. One can repress their fear and anger deep inside and synthesize it into rage to keep moving forward, the other lays down and rots.

The difference is that even strong men today have never really had to put their strength to the test. For previous generations, strength was life or death.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Yarco

[actuallyenlightened]

Isn't it because having a war/famine every 20 years forced men to contemplate death and get their shit together to remain alive. Now that it's easier to stay alive, men can't rely on their survival instinct but instead only on much weaker drives like companionship/self-expression

[Carl-Richard]

43 minutes ago, Yarco said:

Soy in the food and birth control in the water

Look at almost any processed food and it'll have soy lecithin, soy flour, soybean oil, etc. Having a partner who is allergic to soy has made me acutely aware of how crazily prevalent soy is in everything.

Guys are stressed out (high cortisol), not getting enough sleep, not doing any exercise, overweight. A perfect storm of things that cause low testosterone.

Natural male behavior like rough-housing is deemed toxic masculinity or bullying and completely suppressed in our schools so boys aren't allowed to be boys any more, let alone men. You've got a society that snapped back so hard into response to masculinity that they aren't just neutral to non-masculine guys, it actively encourages and rewards dudes to put on makeup and dresses and looks at traditional masculinity as evil.

I think it's conflating two separate issues.

You can be incredibly fucked up and traumatized but still be strong. Strength is being able to suppress trauma for months and years, and go into pure survival mode to focus on doing what needs to be done. Whether that's going to war, providing for your family, or whatever.

It'd be nice for men to be strong without having PTSD. But the alternative is totally fragile and weak men that turn into a blubbering mess if things go wrong. One can repress their fear and anger deep inside and synthesize it into rage to keep moving forward, the other lays down and rots.

The difference is that even strong men today have never really had to put their strength to the test. For previous generations, strength was life or death.

Strength as it's defined here is an outdated concept. It implies emotional discalibration. You might get girls, but you might also beat girls if you catch my drift. Vitality and resilience are two useful concepts from psychology that emphasize emotional integration rather than suppression. A vital and resilient man is able to extert power and be sensitive both at the same time, which comes from a healthy emotion regulation system – the ability to express/externalize emotions and use them as a source of power. Incels actually tend to have a suppressive regulative style that internalizes emotional energy to the psyche and creates circular patterns of thought and unresolved sympathic activation (pent up emotions), leading to anxiety, depression etc. This decreases vitality and resilience. The cases where this leads to "strength", the emotions either get completely disconnected or they create highly unstable patterns, leading to antisocial behavior like lack of empathy or increased aggression. You don't want sociopathy and aggression. You want sensitivity and stability.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Lyubov Oh yeah the propaganda. Arbeit macht frei. Jedem das seine. People still saying that is scary. But hey we are not racist!

[ValiantSalvatore]

@itachi uchiha I'll check it out in time. I took part in a mens circle via integral some practices just give you direct nature of masculinity like zazen or just working out and lifting weights. 

[Gesundheit2]

Current nerds will be the sexiest men in 2100. Anyone who doesn't speak the computer language then will be marginalized and become an incel, actually probably an outcel haha.

[itachi uchiha]

@ValiantSalvatore these group say things like work out , stand up for yourself etc.but they do not give a complete framework of how masculinity works.u will not get a complete understanding of  masculinity.i am not saying i am an expert in masculinity.but after reading way of men ,i got a good understanding of the subject without contradiction.i am not saying i have perfect understanding.but i have a decent understand and there is no confusion or contradiction

 

Also i think the best way to be masculine is to read way of men and implement it in a good way and learn a non bs martial art like boxing,mma,muythai ,judo or kali etc.gym will not give u skills to defend yourself.only some decent martial gives u fighting skills

[ValiantSalvatore]

@itachi uchiha The dude who leads this basically does/did jiu-jitsu etc. So be wary if you never been there there are definitely conscious aspects to masculinity deraling every group without exploring it is quite myopic. There is no real need in my opinion to be that way. I think it's a fantasy for young men to be that way. There are non-violent ways to develop masculinity I saw this with my old friends who like this stuff and they basically just feel the red stage of development and their vulnerabillity drive of being unable to defend themselves because they are small and exposed to forces they have no control over. I am in the same boat, yet I contemplated this way longer then them. Obviously, this will not defend you from physical harm. 

Also this is stuff from Ken Wilber integral coaching conflating it with EVERYTHING else that is out there is just not the case. I've been to the coaching stuff basically two times and it's a lot about purpose as a man constantly it's about purpose very often. I've been basically forced to be with these kind of men when I was younger who see themselves as super masculine like gym owners and DIY attitude people and saw the limitating perspective. I feel and intuit this stuff runs way deeper and is about more. Some get it some don't.

The obsession with fighting when I saw the black belt I trained with in Judo for the couple of months I've been there as well as seeing Dr.Keith Witt who did a lot of martials arts from integral. They will all tell you it's about smth. way deeper, yet they just like bashing heads and fighting. You can also see it (BOTH conscious and unconscious aspects). Especially when you meditate before you start the martial art etc. Same with holligans who learn martal arts to crush their heads and fight their enemies there is not much consciouness there. I do think working out that karma in a sense is good, yet hurting other people is just no a conscious way to deal with things and breeds this macho attitude that is just not good.

I do think just zazen gives you a good taste, it's a non bullshit approach to feeling very masculine naturally. 

Developing and becoming a warrior is great, I do think wisdom is more powerful in a sense. Ultimately I do not know. 

We are still living in the 21. century. Things are moving forwards not backwards. This is what I think when I see people getting stuck in martial arts and fighting etc. Being stuck in deep red vulnerabilltiy part or creation part. I bought courses from Integral and went through them meditated on each stage of development besides turqouise. Just based on my experience and other more conscious people warning me. I do think red pill stuff is an issue when not consciously applied. It's similar to a boxer going out and punching people for fun because he has the power to do it. Instead of knowing his power and practicing humility in that sense because he is powerful etc. I don't think there is anything wrong with defending yourself and learning it it is certainly beautiful. 

Creativity can also be a good outlet. As well as exploring the drive itself. These are mainly my observations about masculinity as long as it's not opressive but expressive I do think it's quite healthy. Definitely took me a while to figure things out on my own. I still do not know enough about it, yet generally I do feel a good taste of it.

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by ValiantSalvatore

[itachi uchiha]

@ValiantSalvatore if u live in a good country and and is very safe and u can live without martial art ,then its very good.martial art will not give me anything if i do not need it as the surrounding is safe

 

But i live in a hostile environment and many people are in stage red.i do not like learning martial art as it give me nothing productive except fighting skills and i am an introvert and do not like social situation.but i have to defend myself as many people are still in red and it is a pain .i am now looking for ways to defend myself by knowledge and mental skills.a book called gift of fear by gavin de becker is in my to do list.it  calims to give me some knoledge about  protecting myself without doing any physical thing.ie it is the mental aspect .i sincierly hope that it gives what it claims because if it not i have to protect myself somehow and i am forced to learn martial art which is waste of time

 

 

Also redpill is written for the bottom 50% of population.and it is 90% accurate for me as i am in bottom 50%l.eo deamonize robert greeene which is unacceptable as 48 laws is a self defence against manipulation.my society is not well evolved and majority of woman i could find are toxic and not worth time

Edited December 10, 2021 by itachi uchiha

[bloomer]

@blessedlion1993

7 hours ago, blessedlion1993 said:

I didnt read your whole post but you seem to be pretty brainwashed. It's okay, I used to think like this as well

Honestly I don't blame you lol. I wrote a long ass essay that looks to have gone largely unread and it out of place in this thread. But just because someone disagrees with you doesn't equate to their brain being washed.

7 hours ago, blessedlion1993 said:

"We have no god. God is dead and all that jazz."

Bullshit. God is never dead and you can always connect to your higher self and spirituality. This is some athiest nihilistic wimp shit to say.

I'm talking about Nietzsche's quote. That enlightenment values and the scientific process had killed underlying judeo christian values. Religion has been bastardized and largely secularized. People are far atheistic today in their world views and this leads to less shared values or morality. Which breaks a mans connection with the people around him and his obligation to serve them.

7 hours ago, blessedlion1993 said:

"We have no positive male role models. "

Bullshit, you just have to find them. I do agree the mainstream ones like Tai Lopez, Joe Rogan, even David Goggins are pretty toxic

I'm not being absolute in these statements. Of course some positive male role models exist. I'm just saying that laregly the culture doesn't push them to the forefront or necessarily promote them as much as they used to. You shouldn't have to go on a search for positive male role models. You should be inundated with them not just with celebrity icons but by the men in your own life. Check out what they're doing in China.

https://www.voanews.com/a/china-tells-effeminate-male-celebrities-to-man-up-/6244721.html

https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgx3nn/china-masculinity-sissy-stars

8 hours ago, blessedlion1993 said:

"We have no country. We have this entho masochistic worldview where the west is evil and the root of the worlds ills."

Then fucking move, that's what i did and i have a community and culture. I used to live in America, where i was raised. Now I actually am so unplugged from the psychosis of the west it's unbeleivably refreshing

lol move where? Everywhere is shit today but used to be better. That's my point. Not really many places I like. Also I don't believe in abandoning my country. 

8 hours ago, blessedlion1993 said:

"We have no purpose, because we have none of the things that used to give us purpose."

You are a breathing living human being, create purpose, there are infinite things to give your life purpose. Quit pouting

It's not pouting to admit collectively men don't have a purpose or something they're striving for. Obviously individually you can create your own purpose.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@itachi uchiha That is the main reason I bought the book from robert greene because I was tired of friends playing manipulation and status games even though I did not fully read it. I do think consciouness auto corrects a lot of this stuff and automaticall helps you to find more conscioues people. 

You once had a post on how to grow in stages (spiral dynamics, susan cook greuter) I answered then the data became corrupted in the forum. You can basically and this is new "info" grow stage with only 20-40 minutes of meditation and you are in college/uni. IIRC it was 1h before 2 stages in 4 years or 1 stage in 2 years. Development usually arrest around age 26-29 max IIRC. If the enviroment is not conducive. For growth. Then every 5 years one stage including. I don't know about tier 3. But this is basically what I wanted to post for your thread.

I don't know living in a hostile enviroment I can certainly see how protecetive some of this stuff is especially when I consider just toxic red friends. The sort of fundamental hack is a zazen practice because it disambiguates power dynamics although this is info from Wilber courses I have notes, I am unsure how applicable that is in a non first world country. As it definitely works here. I'd do intuit if I'd had the competence I could lead way better then most people currently do with their level of consciouness. Yet, with stage red people it's an issue. Although I really have to say I am quite good at disambiguation power dynamics it's just that when I want power myself people really drag me down. It's odd. You'd enter a We based experience from Tier 1 and Tier 2 and in Tier 3 you'd bascially have a full power transcendes if my understanding is correct.

I liked one thing from Sadghuru and this sort of the trick many people play with me memory is hierachy. It's odd playing with that anyway. This will be just rambeling I bet you know more then I what is better to do in an enviroment like this. Might be good food for thought or not.

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by ValiantSalvatore

[Derek White]

The definition of masculinity is created by you. It’s all made up, it doesn’t exist outside of your mind, it’s a concept.

Just be the best version of yourself, don’t try to fit into some masculine or feminine mold that’s set by society.

[itachi uchiha]

@Knowledge Hoarder yeah brother.i am trying very hard to crack an extremely competative asian exam and do not have time for martial art.i am surrounded by mcdojos and low quality schools.i have travel very far to find a good ma school