How do I know what is right or wrong ?

[omar30]

@Nahm 

they believe in a false and corrupt saying of the prophet so their entire belief system is built upon this and their interpretation of the Quran is very old and materialistic.

the problem is they are very religious and it's hard to talk to them without pointing out their false ideas but it turn into a fight.

 

[Nahm]

@omar30

Ok. I was just curious really, if you’d asked that particular question and what they actually said in response. 

[JuliusCaesar]

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

@omar30

Not 100% convinced, but I’ll take your word for it. 

Not to imply you should or should have… did you point out that what they are afraid of, is really what they were told? As in, not anything they’ve actually seen or experienced themselves?

Do they say anything about religion & happiness in any way?

The only reason they're afraid is that they actually think omar30 is going to hell if he doesn't believe and do exactly as they do and believe. So actually they're afraid for him because they love him. But simultaneously they're also afraid for themselves, that he may convince them their views are wrong; meaning they'll then believe false things( false according to their current worldview) that'll land them in hell because of his influence. If you want them to accept the truth. You're going to need to do it in a way that you never contradict the false things they currently believe(meaning specifically that you basically never argue with their wrong ideas but submit or at least pretend to submit to them). And then you have the possibility to show them from their scriptures(the Quran and Hadith) as well as the writings of the Sufis that what you want them to believe is actually not so different from what they currently believe. In fact these things must in their perception seem identical(which shouldn't be too difficult as it's rather obvious that they're ultimately all the same concept merely appearing to be separate and conflicting ideaas). Meanwhile you're chipping away at their nonsense bit by bit with them non the wiser. Eventually converting them into believers of the truth(or whatever lies you intend to foist upon them, as this method can also be used to convince anyone of anything regardless of it's actual veracity).

[omar30]

9 hours ago, JuliusCaesar said:

The only reason they're afraid is that they actually think omar30 is going to hell if he doesn't believe and do exactly as they do and believe. So actually they're afraid for him because they love him

yeah, that's what I mean, you seem to have a similar experience thank you for the advice they also demonize Sufis and any spiritual interpretation of the Quran as well. they are comfortable with their beliefs they may have a few experiences of god bec of that they think that their system is the only true system in the universe as they were programmed.

9 hours ago, JuliusCaesar said:

Meanwhile you're chipping away at their nonsense bit by bit with them non the wiser. Eventually converting them into believers of the truth(or whatever lies you intend to foist upon them, as this method can also be used to convince anyone of anything regardless of it's actual veracity).

I don't care anymore. I don't want to be killed they already used force and physical harm to convert me back, it is really a shitty experience. but funny at the same time 

Edited December 9, 2021 by omar30

[Leo Gura]

Consciousness shows you what is right vs wrong action.

[Salvijus]

Action that serves your ego is a wrong action. Action that serves god is a right action. In other words, what you do out of dao is right action, what you do out of ego mind is wrong action. In other words, selfishness vs selflessness. In other words, concious vs unconscious action.

Basicly the right action is when you don't make any actions anymore. When universe makes all your actions. Then those actions are good.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Salvijus

[Breakingthewall]

Regardless of what is correct or not, when you align yourself with consciousness, the flow of events begins to become obvious. If you flow with it, you go downhill, effortlessly. if you move away, everything gets stuck. you have to train yourself is to know how to read this flow, and act according to it. I suppose that Hitler, when he created the Nazi party, would be in that flow, since everything worked wonderfully. that was the highest good for Hitler at that time. Leo's is actualized.org .the issue is to read what your flow is and develop it. I find it exciting, spirituality applied to the world. An amusement park

[Ineedanswers]

@Leo Gura

Leo in this video at 1:00 you say that suicide is not morally wrong.doesnt this depend on what moral framework you use though? For example if you are an utalitarian( goal-maximize pleasure of everyone) wouldnt suicide be wrong according to the utalitarian framework as suicide will decrease the pleasure of others(due to selfblame/guilt etc)?

i think what you meant to say is “since morality doesn’t exist and nothing is right or wrong,whether you commit suicide or not doesn’t matter”.am  I right?

you don’t adhere to any moral framwork do you leo? (Utalitarianism,consequentialism,or deontology)? If anything I would say you are closest to a hedonist right?

[JuliusCaesar]

8 hours ago, Ineedanswers said:

@Leo Gura

Leo in this video at 1:00 you say that suicide is not morally wrong.doesnt this depend on what moral framework you use though? For example if you are an utalitarian( goal-maximize pleasure of everyone) wouldnt suicide be wrong according to the utalitarian framework as suicide will decrease the pleasure of others(due to selfblame/guilt etc)?

i think what you meant to say is “since morality doesn’t exist and nothing is right or wrong,whether you commit suicide or not doesn’t matter”.am  I right?

you don’t adhere to any moral framwork do you leo? (Utalitarianism,consequentialism,or deontology)? If anything I would say you are closest to a hedonist right?

Moral frameworks exist within the human conceptual matrix. Everything that exists does so out of and being the embodiment of infinite love. So suicide is infinite love, fearing death is infinite love, the people trying to convince you not to kill yourself is infinite love etc etc.

 

As to what moral frameworks Leo does or doesn't use. Leo would seem to be utilizing some combination of all of the those. But he most certainly is not a hedonist, at least not to the same extent that he's a non dualistic cosmologist for example. We know this because he thinks for example not very highly of recreational drug use(a position he and I share). Were he a hedonist he would love recreational drug use.

Edited December 10, 2021 by JuliusCaesar
My mind is faster than my hands

[Leo Gura]

You don't need a moral framework when you realize Reality Is Love.

[omar30]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You don't need a moral framework when you realize Reality Is Love.

what about zen devilry ?

[Mosess]

You don't. They don't either.

You feel it deep inside your guts, the right thing to do.

They will guilt trip and shame you alot for very trivial reasons in this phase. Ground yourself by meditating, or in any other way your prefer. 

Take responsibility for that deep, inner calling that you KNOW is there for a reason, and stay with it. No one can tell you what you want to do other than you, remember that.

Rabena m3ak, or to say it precisely, Rabena ❤️

Edited December 11, 2021 by Mosess

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, omar30 said:

what about zen devilry ?

Zen devilry is Love.

[Loving Radiance]

Listen to your heart. You are the only authority here.

[omar30]

15 hours ago, Mosess said:

Rabena m3ak, or to say it precisely, Rabena ❤️

❤️

[happyhappy]

@omar30 i feel you bro...

i never thought even Buddhists turn out to be ideological. stage blue thinking lol! I have relatives who are fundamentalist Buddhists and it is hilarious to see how they dwindle the truth and create bullshit ideologies. i know it could be a little extreme out there for ya but the same principle of selfishness runs both parties and religions.

it is their desire to be right! we are the ones who are correct and all the others who are not our followers are wrong. -this is what their egos wanna hear and anything against is will hurt them. they like to believe their belief system is the only TRUE system. 

my take here is just  go along with their stuff... go to mosque if you have to . i hope u do. 

don't get into arguments or fights and better not to question their faith for your own good... no amount of questioning will get them out if they are not openminded!

 

 

[omar30]

7 hours ago, happyhappy said:

my take here is just  go along with their stuff... go to mosque if you have to . i hope u do. 

 

thank you for the words I love going to the mosque especially in Fajr it is magical you can try it there is something special about that time. 

[JuliusCaesar]

I've never attended a Mosque before. But I have listened to this song probably about 100 times in my life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxzBQJQwFd0

[The0Self]

Ultimately? What IS, is right... Or, there is no right or wrong. Right for you, on the other hand, is true for you, and you can use positive feeling as an indicator that something is right for you, and negative feeling to avoid what is wrong for you. Not just base level pain/pleasure, but one working model one can use is deeply feeling into any thought about yourself, and if it makes you feel bad, then it’s untrue and wrong for you — you can then either act on its converse (right action), or abandon it (if you’re trying to find the untruth-unrealized state, i.e. liberation from all ego and all belief).

[Consilience]

3 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Ultimately? What IS, is right... Or, there is no right or wrong. Right for you, on the other hand, is true for you, and you can use positive feeling as an indicator that something is right for you, and negative feeling to avoid what is wrong for you. Not just base level pain/pleasure, but one working model one can use is deeply feeling into any thought about yourself, and if it makes you feel bad, then it’s untrue and wrong for you — you can then either act on its converse (right action), or abandon it (if you’re trying to find the untruth-unrealized state, i.e. liberation from all ego and all belief).

I find often the abandonment creates what feels like a psychic vacuum. The thoughts and feelings of "right action" are pressurized into manifestation. If I try to act on what feels right, "right action," there always feels like an underlying wrong action, like the roots were more "what is wrong for you." But when abandoning right action, again, right action is the only actuality. Behavior starts to get quite paradoxical at this point.