Leo, can you talk more about the 2 directions of spiritual work?

[Thought Art]

24 minutes ago, BenG said:

Personally, I don't know how anyone could get liberation without immense levels of understanding.

It might be possible through surrender and letting go, but I feel like that would be a more tumultuous path.

Eckhart Tolle did the surrender method, but he was homeless for two years. That's not what I want.

Don't compare yourself to others.

Build the proper life systems and be intelligent about survival needs. AND, you can also liberate yourself. Truth liberation is done intelligently within the systems you are in, given the resources you currently have.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

@BenG I love the book "Code of the Extraordinary Mind" By Vishen Laikiani. 

I mean, liberation is different for others. Who am I to judge.

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Jakuchu said:

@Leo Gura What now? Retirement? 

Now the ultimate work begins: becoming the most conscious and loving embodiment of God in the universe.

7 hours ago, jimwell said:

self-love is not worth it? Isn't self-love the highest spiritual goal and teaching?

I think self-understanding or omniscience comes second. 

Omniscience is God. And God is Love.

5 hours ago, tsuki said:

This is a very entertaining thread. Haven't seen Leo so eager to talk for a long time.

@Leo Gura, you touched upon the subject of will and I was wondering about your views on it.

During my recent awakening, I became conscious that I have no free will and that my will is exactly the same as understanding and love. I understand that knowledge and the finite mind is bound with the body and that through this will, I am the force that animates all of existence. On the other hand, I am also not a thing, I don't exist as something and I cannot die and that I was never born.

If by "you" you mean the human self, then that you's will is very limited.

But if you're talking about the God-You -- the force that animates all of existence -- then you should realize that that force is identical to Your Will.

God IS Infinite Will.

Quote

I wonder how that relates to God consciousness you are speaking of.

Sounds like you are getting close.

5 hours ago, Harsh Bagdia said:

You are telling me that you did this type of questioning for years? How have you not gone totally crazy uptil this point?

I have been questioning since I was 15 years old.

Quote

So I am writing this sentence believing that it's actually getting published on an internet forum & people will read it. And this believing makes it true. Actuality is the only thing actual. Holy fuck!!!!

Where else would a forum and people come from but your own mind?

The entire internet exists in your Mind.

If you became conscious enough, you could navigate the whole internet with your Mind -- since it is your Mind.

All human technology is simply ways of overcoming the obstacles imagined within your own Mind that you have forgotten you imagined. An airplane is just a mental device to move you from one part of your Mind which got disconnected from another part of your Mind. If your Mind became fully united, the airplane would not be necessary any more.

Therefore Omniscience = Omnipotence.

But this is not a tool for the ego's survival. So don't get any dumb ideas.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Judy2 said:

It is clear to me that Being can't know itself, as all knowing is actually just Being pretending to look at itself and creating a poor copy in the finite mind.

Understanding is different, for sure. It's more synonymous with Consciousness and Being, so the only way you can fully understand God is by fully Being it. At which point you no longer need labels, concepts or anything of that sort. I mean, i'd be disappointed if you did.

@Leo Gura maybe you can tell me what you think of this, I'd really appreciate it.

Being is good, but there is also an aspect where mind becomes infinite and comprehends itself. It's a sort of synthesis between Being and knowing/conceptualizing. Your conceptualizing becomes absolute in a sense. This is mostly only possible on psychedelics.

The beauty of psychedelics is that they allow you to maintain your conceptualizing mind in a way that meditation does not allow. On a psychedelic you don't need to turn off the mind.

This is a much-underappreciated thing. Too much mind is demonized in Buddhist and Advaita teachings.

[Salvijus]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Now the ultimate work begins: becoming the most conscious and loving embodiment of God in the universe.

How are you going to do this without meditation or other spiritual practice? Just with psychedelics? 

[Salvijus]

@Leo Gura according to goenka after 4th Jhana there are states of infinite mind. Is that not the same as omniscience that you're talking about?

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

How are you going to do this without meditation or other spiritual practice? Just with psychedelics? 

I never said I don't meditate or do other spiritual practices.

That's just not how I get my deepest understanding.

[Salvijus]

@Leo Gura yeah but you've sayed you want to be the most concious and loving embodyment of god. How are you going to achieve this?

Edited December 12, 2021 by Salvijus

[Thought Art]

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

@Leo Gura yeah but you've sayed you want be the most concious and loving embodyment of god. How are you going to this?

I think his work is pretty good embodiment of this… 

I am very grateful for Leo’s work. 
 

I assume he is pointing to his work. It’s pretty fucking amazing IMO. 
 

not to blow smoke up your ass Leo. 
 

Leo is a reflektor in my books. 

[Thought Art]

4 hours ago, Judy2 said:

@Harsh Bagdia @Thought Art

The points you listed may be valid and significant, but maybe it is good to notice that whenever you are making such lists, you're 

a) engaging in a lot of projection

b) oversimplifying things

c) attempting to grasp and govern that which can't be grasped.

If we play that game, we could just take literally any human concept and say that's what God is.

 

While i think this approach can sometimes be helpful and i use it myself from time to time, you must know that this is mere poetry. I like considering so-called "facets" (in addition to leo's) like Intimacy(cause it's yours), Infinite Intensity(meaning all is itself in infinite precision), Safety, and others.

However, i am aware that these are finite(!) perspectives on the Absolute, so you shouldn't be overly attached to them.

 

Hope you can take something from this

 

No, actually you need to make the distinction between reading my list, and the reference experiences I am pulling from from my mystical experiences. 
 

there are many facets to awakening not sure what you are talking about. 
 

even infinity is finite…

obviously a list of words is just a list of words. But, what they point to (my direct mystical experiences) were actual things I realized in some of my deepest states…

the list is a pointer… and a post on a forum.

hmmmm, symbolic pointers will always be important when communicating these things to ‘others’…. As is all of Leo’s work or any sacred text for example. That is the key point of implicit vs explicitly understanding. 
 

Awakenings are implicit, lists are explicit. 
 

and, frankly though I’ve had deep mystical experiences I have many more to come… also lots more embodiment, and integration and maturing to do. 
 

other guys list is a different context I think… maybe that is more projection…

Edited December 12, 2021 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

@Leo Gura yeah but you've sayed you want to be the most concious and loving embodyment of god. How are you going to achieve this?

Not sure yet.

56 minutes ago, BenG said:

@Leo Gura 

When you got your first look at God so to speak, was that essentially the same thing you get on your deepest 5-meo trips but to a different degree of clarity? Or would you describe it as a different thing entirely?

Similar, just more clarity.

56 minutes ago, BenG said:

When you were a newbie to psychedelics, meditation, etc. did you ever believe you had realized God or awoken before you actually had?

I had some glimpses but nothing near the clarity I got later.

56 minutes ago, BenG said:

Does anything from your highest awakenings seem to contradict stuff you've got from lower-level awakenings?

No, just more total and clear.

[Salvijus]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not sure yet.

I think the answer is traditional daily spiritual grinding, the same way that was taugh for thousands of years already. Lol 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Salvijus

[Thought Art]

18 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

I think the answer is traditional daily spiritual grinding, the same way that was taugh for thousands of years already. Lol 

But is that really the highest emobodimemt of Gods love?

 

sounds more like a lack of technology 

[Salvijus]

@Thought Art it's not like we have a choice right now. If there was a better and faster way to embody god than through spiritual diciplines that are available on the planet now. I think everybody would shift themselves to that method without hesitation. But it's yet to happen. Or maybe it won't happen even.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

Just random thoughts coming.

If there was a way to skip 40years of work to get to embodiment of god, no monk would waste his time grueling.

It's funny how people who meditate 20min a day, masturbate and watch youtube videos all night and do some drugs occasionally assume that they have a stronger desire to realize the truth then a monk who sacrifises his whole life and does nothing but tears of pain sadhana to attain to that truth.

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Salvijus

[Thought Art]

2 hours ago, Judy2 said:

@Thought Art 

Again, descriptions can be useful, but they're not inherent to the Absolute itself.

 

Well, they clearly exist so that is false on some level. Description is part of the Absolute itself. But, they aren't the same as Grokking it in its totality.

But, what you are saying is obvious to me. I think I explain this in my response.

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

@Thought Art it's not like we have a choice right now. If there was a better and faster way to embody god than through spiritual diciplines that are available on the planet now. I think everybody would shift themselves to that method without hesitation. But it's yet to happen. Or maybe it won't happen even.

Well, we do. 5meodmt and others... I mean, that at least sky rockets you if used properly.

However, yeah. I got my Qigong 'grind' still, and meditation. So, you aren't wrong imo. But, we have technologies that can allows us to grow much faster than in the past.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Thought Art

[WelcometoReality]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

I think the answer is traditional daily spiritual grinding, the same way that was taugh for thousands of years already. Lol 

Yeah, but not as much a grind as it is effortless being and letting all conditioning in the body wash away in the presence of God.

 

 

[Harsh Bagdia]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I have been questioning since I was 15 years old.

WOW. As a kid I always had this question, why anything? And if not anything what remains? As no one seemed bothered by this question I didn't actively engage in that enquiry. Until I met you. 

So in a sense I am smarter than you, I created you to do all the heavy lifting & bring its essence to me. Such a smartass I am. You are literally my kid self having unlimited questions expanded into Infinity. 

What I don't understand is why are you still doing it? I have nothing to give to you. Why will you do this for me? You have infinite domains to entertain yourself with. 

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Where else would a forum and people come from but your own mind?

The entire internet exists in your Mind.

If you became conscious enough, you could navigate the whole internet with your Mind -- since it is your Mind.

All human technology is simply ways of overcoming the obstacles imagined within your own Mind that you have forgotten you imagined. An airplane is just a mental device to move you from one part of your Mind which got disconnected from another part of your Mind. If your Mind became fully united, the airplane would not be necessary any more.

Therefore Omniscience = Omnipotence.

But this is not a tool for the ego's survival. So don't get any dumb ideas.

So mind's task is to integrate & unite itself FOREVER & EVER.  

Thankyou so much master.

I promise you I will use the tools for the highest benefit of all that my understanding can hold. Namaste? .

I still want answers to above questions. 

[AndylizedAAY]

5 minutes ago, Harsh Bagdia said:

WOW. As a kid I always had this question, why anything? And if not anything what remains? As no one seemed bothered by this question I didn't actively engage in that enquiry. Until I met you. 

So in a sense I am smarter than you, I created you to do all the heavy lifting & bring its essence to me. Such a smartass I am. You are literally my kid self having unlimited questions expanded into Infinity. 

What I don't understand is why are you still doing it? I have nothing to give to you. Why will you do this for me? You have infinite domains to entertain yourself with. 

So mind's task is to integrate & unite itself FOREVER & EVER.  

Thankyou so much master.

I promise you I will use the tools for the highest benefit of all that my understanding can hold. Namaste? .

I still want answers to above questions. 

This creation idea does not work one way so I would not say that you are smarter than Leo even if it was true. No one is doing anything for you. The domains also need to go deep regardless of these entertaining infinite domains. 

[Harsh Bagdia]

6 hours ago, Judy2 said:

The points you listed may be valid and significant, but maybe it is good to notice that whenever you are making such lists, you're 

a) engaging in a lot of projection

b) oversimplifying things

c) attempting to grasp and govern that which can't be grasped.

If we play that game, we could just take literally any human concept and say that's what God is.

@Judy2Some misunderstanding happened. I was wishing everyone with Infinite Abundance & all good things & not making list of awakenings. I don't even know what all those phrases actually mean, it just came to me as inspiration. 

No human concepts are not God. You are God. Yes who is reading this.

YOU ARE GOD. YOU ARE GOD. YOU ARE GOD. YOU ARE GOD. YOU ARE GOD. YOU ARE GOD. YOU ARE GOD. YOU ARE GOD. YOU ARE GOD. 

IT'S RADICAL. IT'S BEAUTIFUL. 

6 hours ago, Judy2 said:

i am aware that these are finite(!) perspectives on the Absolute, so you shouldn't be overly attached to them.

Hope you can take something from this

Ok won't be overly attached to finite perspectives. Thankyou?

 

6 hours ago, Judy2 said:

But God is God, and God is most likely not keeping a list of facets of himself. 

I've never experienced the Godhead, but i strongly assume that it is truly Indescribable and anything you say about it is said too much, too little, and everything inbetween.

It is clear to me that Being can't know itself, as all knowing is actually just Being pretending to look at itself and creating a poor copy in the finite mind.

Understanding is different, for sure. It's more synonymous with Consciousness and Being, so the only way you can fully understand God is by fully Being it. At which point you no longer need labels, concepts or anything of that sort. I mean, i'd be disappointed if you did.

Yes you are you. I am not sure whether or not you are keeping a list of facets of yourself. Being an aspect of you I would say there's nothing wrong with keeping lists if it serves you. 

I don't know what 'Godhead' refers to but according to your description it resembles you. 

Why a poor copy? Let's create an infinitely rich copy. Philosophy is love.

I agree on the last part. REAL JOY & REAL UNDERSTANDING IS BECOMING GOD. BEING GOD. 

Namaste?