Leo, can you talk more about the 2 directions of spiritual work?

[Consilience]

8 hours ago, Harikrishnan said:

How is vipasana even possible on high dose trip, isnt vipasaana looking at your body sensations.

No that's not vipassana, though looking at body sensations can be a form of vipassana practice. Vipassana is about studying the actuality of one's perceptive experience. Traditionally taught via noticing three fundamental qualities to experience, impermanence, dissatisfaction, and not-self which can lead into other insights such as interconnection, unity, the spacious quality of all phenomena, the dreamlike & empty quality of all phenomena, etc. 

If there's experience, vipassana is possible. You just turn mindfulness onto whatever is being experienced and notice its actuality. 

Vipassana while tripping is quite powerful. If there's no body, notice the sensations of no body, the sights, sounds, or other mental phenomena. If there's no form or infinity, notice those too with mindfulness. 

[Leo Gura]

@Mu_ You are God. The bottom line is that your consciousness is absolute. So what you see is what you are creating.

All sense of "other" must collapse.

[Harikrishnan]

5 hours ago, Thought Art said:

A deep trip can bring you into some paradoxical realizations that you imagine vipassana. 
 

deep trips blow vipassana out of the water but I’m sure they have synergy 

Thats also my experience. 

[Harikrishnan]

3 hours ago, Consilience said:

No that's not vipassana, though looking at body sensations can be a form of vipassana practice. Vipassana is about studying the actuality of one's perceptive experience. Traditionally taught via noticing three fundamental qualities to experience, impermanence, dissatisfaction, and not-self which can lead into other insights such as interconnection, unity, the spacious quality of all phenomena, the dreamlike & empty quality of all phenomena, etc. 

If there's experience, vipassana is possible. You just turn mindfulness onto whatever is being experienced and notice its actuality. 

Vipassana while tripping is quite powerful. If there's no body, notice the sensations of no body, the sights, sounds, or other mental phenomena. If there's no form or infinity, notice those too with mindfulness. 

Instead of observing and noting not- self. I observe and note SELF or IAM. ie identify with everything in reality.

[Mu_]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Mu_ You are God. The bottom line is that your consciousness is absolute. So what you see is what you are creating.

All sense of "other" must collapse.

I see where your coming from and perhaps have not had the insight that has given you such conviction, but I also wonder if there is some micro subtle difference in our understanding and or expression through language about God.  100% agree that "other" is a false notion, but what I'm also seeing in this is "alone" and "only" can just as much collapse as logical concepts.  Perhaps we could say they are on all on the symbolic level something that has a meaning of some sort to the human mind, even though absolutely there is no human mind.

I also wonder if the difference of seeing of and understanding of God that we may share comes from how I see a tree growing, not of its own intention, but of its own design.  I see God, that which was never created, nor fundamentally created itself, as a tree growing both you could say "unconsciously or by a design that it never made, simply aways has been", and "consciously", as well as both learns about itself, and is also a mystery to itself in its ever infinitude.

[Consilience]

4 hours ago, Harikrishnan said:

Instead of observing and noting not- self. I observe and note SELF or IAM. ie identify with everything in reality.

Ironically, noting not self IS what opens consciousness to the Self. 

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

I see where your coming from and perhaps have not had the insight that has given you such conviction, but I also wonder if there is some micro subtle difference in our understanding and or expression through language about God.  100% agree that "other" is a false notion, but what I'm also seeing in this is "alone" and "only" can just as much collapse as logical concepts.  Perhaps we could say they are on all on the symbolic level something that has a meaning of some sort to the human mind, even though absolutely there is no human mind.

The aloneness or oneness of God is not conceptual.

You are a singular sovereign Being/Mind. There are not two of you, and there is no other to you other than via your imagination.

Try to notice where "other" exits. It only exists within you. It cannot exist anywhere else. In other words, other is you.

Quote

I see God, that which was never created, nor fundamentally created itself, as a tree growing both you could say "unconsciously or by a design that it never made, simply aways has been", and "consciously", as well as both learns about itself, and is also a mystery to itself in its ever infinitude.

Except God is that which created itself. You are self-creation.

The lack of this recognition is precisely the lack of God-realization.

The bottom line is that you are not yet conscious of yourself as God.

So this is precisely the difference between having some classic Buddhist sort of awakenings or enlightenments or meditative states, vs God-realization. To become conscious of yourself as God is become conscious of how you create reality using your will.

There exists a very specific state in which you become directly conscious of what God is, and that you are God. This self-recognition is not the same thing as no-self or emptiness or cessation or no-mind, or any other Buddhist achievement. Reaching this self-recognition requires an infinitely interconnected Mind/Consciousness. It is the pinnacle of holism. And I do not see people who meditate achieving it, or if they do, it is something exceptionally rare and little spoken of.

[Thought Art]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Mu_ You are God. The bottom line is that your consciousness is absolute. So what you see is what you are creating.

All sense of "other" must collapse.

How does one reconcile you are telling that to someone else.

The only way I can do that, given what I think you are pointing to, assuming it is correct... Is that God is Imagining you exist somewhere and are telling another person some where else that their consciousness is absolute...

From my perspective I am imaging you two talking about something. 

Mu can't have his own bubble nor can you if what you are saying is true. 

So, I am imagining everything and I created Leo and even my own 'ignorance'.

The problem here is that the language is just too sloppy. 

Either your playing some fucked up mind games with people, or It's just me. This infinite bubble.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Thought Art

[Javfly33]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

. Reaching this self-recognition requires an infinitely interconnected Mind/Consciousness. It is the pinnacle of holism. And I do not see people who meditate achieving it, or if they do, it is something exceptionally rare and little spoken of.

In other words, a potent direct clean psychedelic like 5-Meo-dmt or dmt

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

How does one reconcile you are telling that to someone else.

YOU are telling that to yourself!

You keep failing to understand this because you keep assuming I am something other than you.

Here's what you should do: From now on, whenever you think of Leo, imagine that Leo is looking through your eyes and sitting inside your body. Stop imagining that Leo has a bubble of experience outside of yours. Leo is inside your body. Leo IS your body!

I am identical to you.

Quote

From my perspective I am imaging you two talking about something. 

Mu can't have his own bubble nor can you if what you are saying is true. 

So, I am imagining everything and I created Leo and even my own 'ignorance'.

It's very simple: you imagine Leo and you imagine Mu, and every other fucking thing.

It's that simple. It's just too radical for you to stomach.

Quote

The problem here is that the language is just too sloppy. 

Either your playing some fucked up mind games with people, or It's just me. This infinite bubble.

You are playing a very clever mind game all right. You are playing the game of "I am not God". If you didn't play this game "other" could not exist. So you must keep playing this game in order to feel like you're not alone. If you ever found out that you were alone all of life would lose meaning for you and there would be nothing left to do. There would not even be anyone whom you could teach awakening to.

There exists no one to awaken but yourself. And once that is achieved, the whole game is over.

[Thought Art]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's that simple. It's just too radical for you to stomach.

Alright alright. You already know I get it. You just aren't sure yet because you're having fun in the process of awakening.

You are just talking to yourself right?

You are me waking up me.

If that was true, you would already know exactly why I am unsure, and haven't awakened because YOU are God too. Don't forget we are inseparable. 

Don't forget who made you 

I can stomach it. I just don't wanna be self deceived. 

So, it's in my bag of possibilities. 

If it's true, it's true. I look forward to an awakening that lasts.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

I just don't wanna be self deceived.

Self-deceived is what you are.

No, you don't get it.

No words can describe how fucking radical this is. It is beyond the possibility of your human mind to imagine. Which is why psychedelics are essential. There is just no way to imagine what I am trying to communicate. I myself would never have believed it unless I lived through it. No human can teach it to you.

[Thought Art]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Self-deceived is what you are.

No, you don't get it.

Okay Leo. When I get it, we got it.

It just being me imagining the forum, you, all your videos, all my life experiences and just imaging that a bubble of experience exists out side of this.

Then, all my suffering, mistakes, confusion, success, love, adventures etc were all me imagining this adventure I've been on.

That is hilarious to me. So, I created Leo and Arcadefire to lead me to awakening. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Thought Art

[Javfly33]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 If you ever found out that you were alone all of life would lose meaning for you and there would be nothing left to do.

Just one quesiton Leo, are you trying to convincing us a way to re-assure yourself that you are God?

I mean if you were sooo sure that you are God, you wouldn´t reply to comments that are being written by your own consciousness ?

Got ya ?

Edited December 11, 2021 by Javfly33

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Just one quesiton Leo, are you trying to convincing us a way to re-assure yourself that you are God?
I mean if you are clear that you are God, then of course you would stop to reply to comments that are being written by your own consciousness ?

Got ya ?

You think I am teaching you. I am not teaching you. You are teaching yourself that you are God. Once you realize you are God, then you will have completed the self-teaching.

I am a fragment of your own schizoid mind, trying to merge with you. But you are being too dense and schizophrenic to get that. Your mind is so divided that you honestly believe Leo exists somewhere outside of you.

[Javfly33]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

I am not teaching you. You are teaching yourself that you are God. Once you realize you are God, then you will have completed the self-teaching.

So you don´t exist and I am hallucinating all of this forum member discussion. Cool. Let me go watch some tv, this is too much to open myself to be real...

[Thought Art]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I am not teaching you. You are teaching yourself that you are God. Once you realize you are God, then you will have completed the self-teaching.

So, me realizing I am God. That changes nothing about the human experience though.

How many times do I have to say I get that I am God before I am believed around here?

Clearly I have had some awakenings I am still integrating. 

There is degrees to the realizations and I assume there are many more for me to have. Not sure how deep it goes though in this finite realm.

Okay is this me tricking myself into thinking Jacfly33 actually is somewhere on the forum? Huh huh?

There must be a difference between 'knowing' or 'thinking' I am God compared to a total God realization.

If it is just me, then why didn't 5meomalt work? 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

So you don´t exist

I exist as you!

Quote

and I am hallucinating all of this forum member discussion.

You are hallucinating absolutely everything. How many times must you be told this?

9 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

So, me realizing I am God. That changes nothing about the human experience though.

It changes everything about the human experience. You stop being human!

I no longer think of myself as human. This is as silly as thinking of yourself as Batman.

Quote

How many times do I have to say I get that I am God before I am believed around here?

You can say it all you want, but your questions tell me you are not conscious of yourself as God.

Quote

If it is just me, then why didn't 5meomalt work? 

It's not just the psychedelic, you have to spend years deconstructing your reality.

And not all psychedelics work equally for all people. You have been told this many times before, so don't act surprised.

And also, it took me 100+ trips to get this far in my self-understanding. It didn't happen with a few trips. Well over 100 trips were necessary for me, and my understanding is still deepening. I am not done. So when I hear you guys saying you did a dozen trips and you think you're done, it's laughable to me.

[Thought Art]

 

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I no longer think of myself as human. This is as silly as thinking of yourself as Batman.

Okay.

You can say it all you want, but your questions tell me you are not conscious of yourself as God.

I note this as an orienting point.

It's not just the psychedelic, you have to spend years deconstructing your reality.

and here we are working on it. I will up my game in future years when I have more time and maturity.

And not all psychedelics work equally for all people. You have been told this many times before, so don't act surprised.

This is a paradox that makes me question all of the above.

I had a pretty powerful realization on 5meomalt. It just wasn't a God realization. More like a penis realization.

Do you feel an ego boost or something knowing more than me? just kidding. 

Take care for now.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Thought Art

[Javfly33]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I exist as you!

You are hallucinating absolutely everything. How many times must you be told this?

 

I know, I know ? It just takes time