How deeply can You awaken?

[Salvijus]

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

How do you account for that difference 

I started from zero just like everybody else. And I'm very hardcore when in comes to meditation. Plus I rely on grace 24/7. And i've been initiated and received transmitions from many different masters. So...

[Mosess]

2 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Human evolution takes time, it's growing in its appropriate pace no need to haten it. It's already growing the way it should be growing. In accordance to natural laws of nature and tao. That's how i feel about it.

I understand what you are saying but consider this:

Imagine you are in an era where there were no cars, only animals for transportation. then someone came up with the idea: I want to travel to places faster!

Then someone like you comes along and comes up with another idea: if we travel faster than we already do with the animals we are currently using as transportation, then i think there would be a serious problem with the future transpirational animal that is hypothetically in both of our minds now. I think we should leave it to nature, to evolution to do as is.

Now don't get me wrong, im not saying your a stupid fuck or anything, im saying that the fact is that you are in a position to act on shit cause you are a part of evolution right fucking now, and do not know if it is growing at the pace it should be growing in or not, nor do you know if its growing in the right direction to begin with!!

I think its growing at an incredible pace in the wrong fucking direction!!! ???? 

which is a fucking joke to all of us

The laws of the "tao" you talk about are laws of your own making.

From my POV, i see we are all fucked here, 

Humans are so scared to be fucked that when they realize how fucked they are, they deny it, and are fucking themselves and the whole of humanity with them collectively even more while doing so.

Say im a pessimist, but i think its too late for saving anything, we are fucked.

Maybe you are right, maybe we should leave everything for, who the fuck knows.

 

[softlyblossoming]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

Shouldn't the highest goal be max consciouness embodied? And isn't the only way to do that through sober spiritual practices?

@Salvijus There's no such thing as sober if you're never sober .

Good question, I've also wondered this, but won't take anyone's word for it until I try psychedelics again. Maybe you could test it by doing psychedelics for 1 month, and then going for sober practice only for 1 month, and then comparing which month saw more consciousness embodied. That's probably similar to what I would try, although I don't know anything about proper psychedelic protocols like when or how often to take them, so that timescale may be wrong. It sounds, to me, on paper, like something someone could get clarity about by running a proper little experiment, so I thought I'd play my role and throw the idea up on people's screens —of course, this is not meant to imply you shouldn't still ask around and get expert opinions, afterall I've been wondering the same thing, so I'm as curious as you are, haha.

Edited December 12, 2021 by softlyblossoming

[Salvijus]

@Mosess

28 minutes ago, Mosess said:

Imagine you are in an era where there were no cars, only animals for transportation. then someone came up with the idea: I want to travel to places faster!

I knew this logic was going to come back and bite me in the ass ?

But the evolution of consciouness follows certain laws. That law is usually called dharma or dhamma or the way of dao. For example if I sayed coconut trees takes 3years to grow and blossom at the spring season. It's not my invention, it's a law of how things grow on this planet. Same way consciouness and human soul has it's laws of growing. Consciouness is literally like a plant trying to grow to it's full size. You can slightly hasten it if you send love and warmth to it and you give it the best conditions possible, then it will blossom faster. But if you put genetic enginerring into a plant it's... something I don't like about it. Idk what it is. It's just my hunch that it won't work. Can't argue any deeper then that.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Salvijus

[Mosess]

6 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Mosess

I knew this logic was going to come back and bite me the ass ?

But the evolution of consciouness follows certain laws. That law is usually called dharma or dhamma or the way of dao. For example if I sayed coconut trees takes 3years to grow and blossom at the spring season. It's not my invention, it's a law of how things grow on this planet. Same way consciouness has it's laws of growing. Consciouness is literally like a plant trying to grow to it's full size. You can slightly hasten it if you send love and warmth to it and you give it the best conditions possible, then it will blossom faster. But if you put genetic enginerring into a plant it's... something I don't like about it. Idk what it is. It's just my hunch that it won't work. Can't argue any deeper then that.

Yup, i agree

We fucked with these laws long ago, replace trees with human beings

[Salvijus]

@softlyblossoming??

10 minutes ago, softlyblossoming said:

Maybe you could test it by doing psychedelics for 1 month, and then going for sober practice only for 1 month, and then comparing which month saw more consciousness embodied. 

I guess that's one way of doing things...

[Salvijus]

@Mosess i think I misunderstood something in your first post. Im not against the technological advancement tho.

[Gesundheit2]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

My life is not centered around awakening. My life is centered around deepening my Love. I experience such profound metaphysical Love that I cannot put it into words. And yet, my connection to Love has only just begun. I have discovered a Love that is so profound that it if I could only communicate it ever to one person, it would be worth a lifetime of work. And yet, there exists no one who I can share that Love with other than myself.

I'm happy to hear that. Though, not sure if you're implying that others are yourself in the last sentence and/or that you actually haven't yet found anyone who can share the same understanding with you.

Anyways, I'm now intrigued to ask what are you practicing nowadays? Maybe I can try out some of your methods, well except psychedelics cuz I don't currently have access to them. I will definitely try something once I visit or move out to some western country.

[How to be wise]

Leo is an intellectual, so he’s more interested in ‘knowing the truth’ than he is in living a good and happy life. This reminds me of Nisargadatta, who also was not interested in ‘happiness’ but only in knowing what the truth is. 

 

[Mosess]

1 minute ago, How to be wise said:

Leo is an intellectual, so he’s more interested in ‘knowing the truth’ than he is in living a good and happy life. This reminds me of Nisargadatta, who also was not interested in ‘happiness’ but only in knowing what the truth is. 

 

Yea, keep projecting the meaning of leo

You are dreaming 

[Salvijus]

The only reason people want to know the truth is because they think it will fulfill them and bring them happyness. 

Happyness and truth are identical. How happy you are is identical to how much you live in truth in that moment. 

How much you suffer is identical to how far away from the truth you are in that moment

Total end of suffering = living and embodying the highest truth.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Salvijus

[Gesundheit2]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's crazy effective for me. I can't speak to what is effective for you. Only you can sort that out.

But I also have a very strong sense of what is ineffective for most people. And that is meditation and Buddhism.

One downside to meditation is that it slows the thinking process and makes it harder to come up with thoughts. I originally have a slightly above average IQ score. Sometimes after deep meditation I fail to make knee-jerk reactions on time. It usually takes me a few seconds to make sense of some happenings around me if I'm absorbed in some meditative state.

I guess the opposite is true with psychedelics. Brain scans show hyperactivity in cognitive areas, and so that's probably the case (enhanced cognition). Then again, if my mind isn't originally refined with years of spiritual work, will psychedelics work the same? I doubt that. If you take some random person and give them a dose of 5-MeO, I doubt that will help them in any way, but rather bring out their shadows, insecurities, unresolved traumas, etc. That might be extreme if the person has a severe traumatic past. I'm not yet 100% sure about myself, but I think I should have become ready for something because I have already dealt with and overcome so many dark aspects of my psyche.

Can you share what was your first experience of psychedelics like? And how many years of prior work did you have on your belt before doing your first trip? Or if you have already spoken about it, can you link it in case I have missed it?

Edited December 12, 2021 by Gesundheit2

[bliss54]

@Leo Gura

Has doing 5 meo dmt increased your baseline conciousness a lot? 

With other psychedelics I get a deep peak experience, but then my normal state is pretty similar to before. I'm going to try 5 meo soon though

[How to be wise]

3 hours ago, Salvijus said:

The only reason people want to know the truth is because they think it will fulfill them and bring them happyness. 

Happyness and truth are identical. How happy you are is identical to how much you live in truth in that moment. 

How much you suffer is identical to how far away from the truth you are in that moment

Total end of suffering = living and embodying the highest truth.

If truth and happiness/peace were like a fork in the road, which one would you choose? If you choose truth, you are an intellectual. If you choose happiness/peace (like most spiritual teachers) then you are an idealist. In Myers Briggs, they are NT and NF respectively. 

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

If truth and happiness/peace were like a fork in the road, which one would you choose? If you choose truth, you are an intellectual. If you choose happiness/peace (like most spiritual teachers) then you are an idealist. In Myers Briggs, they are NT and NF respectively. 

If I had to chose one, i'd chose perfect fullfilment. 

But in real life perfect fullfilment implies you understand the reality totally because the desire and longing to understand reality is there in everyone, and it's a very nagging desire. Without fullfilment of this desire there is no perfect fullfilment.

So I would chose happyness. But my happyness includes perfect understanding also.

In reality all those things go together. Max consciousness = perfect understanding = perfect fullfilment and end of suffering.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Salvijus

[How to be wise]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

If I had to chose one, i'd chose perfect fullfilment. 

But in real life perfect fullfilment implies you understand the reality totally because the desire and longing to understand reality is there in everyone, and it's a very nagging desire. Without fullfilment of this desire there is no perfect fullfilment.

So I would chose happyness. But my happyness includes perfect understanding also.

In reality all those things go together. Max consciousness = perfect understanding = perfect fullfilment and end of suffering.

Well, Leo is clearly not the happiest person around. I’m not saying he’s depressed, but you can definitely find other spiritual teachers who are at a higher state of bliss/ecstasy, which they got from deep meditation. But they didn’t get as much ‘understanding’ of reality (which is a mental thing) as Leo did with psychedelics. Instead, they achieved states of meditation with intense levels of spiritual pleasure, which is centralised in the body. I would like both, but I prefer the latter since I’m an idealist. I found that the vast majority of spiritual teachers are idealists, looking for an ‘experience’ of enlightenment rather than just ‘understanding’. 

[Zeroguy]

@How to be wise All "states" are God. Or expression of God. 

For me it was about Truth not about "feel good". 

[Arzack]

There are levels of enlightenment. Google Jan esmann. 

But there's a limit which we can surpass on the astral plane once we finish our reincarnation circle on the physical plane. Source: the Michael Teachings and the wingmakers website.

[Leo Gura]

10 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Shouldn't the highest goal be max consciouness embodied? And isn't the only way to do that through sober spiritual practices?

You're not going to embody max consciousness without reaching max consciousness.

People are clueless about what max consciousness is, never-mind embodying it.

[Consilience]

10 hours ago, Salvijus said:

It's like inventing a technology that grows trees in full size in three days. Maybe it's possible but I think there would be something very wrong with that tree.

Human evolution takes time, it's growing in its appropriate pace no need to haten it. It's already growing the way it should be growing. In accordance to natural laws of nature and tao. That's how i feel about it. 

You can also turn 3year old infant into 60year old wise man in 3days using artificial advanced technology. But something inside is deepy against this kind of interference with nature.

I dont think the rate needs to be that quick but lets face it. Humanity is severely lacking wisdom and compassion. If we don’t collectively get our shit together, we will destroy ourselves. There’s no better way to develop wisdom and compassion than these contemplative practices like meditation. Unfortunately, they don’t work quickly enough to meet the exponentially growing challenges that we face such as climate change, rapidly advancing technology, massive wealth inequality, etc. Id also say don’t become attached to the image of the long hero’s journey. Just as there’s nothing wrong with the current speed (other than its lack of scaleability) there’s equally nothing wrong with speeding it up. No reason to assume its impossible and guaranteed to have something wrong.