How deeply can You awaken?

[Salvijus]

12 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

The other way to end suffering is to see everything as meaningless void. If you don't give any meaning to pain because you're totally aware that it's nothing at all. Then that will also be the end of suffering and resistence.

To extend further.

A monk who can endure big pain is not a sign of resilience or toughnuts. It's a sign of his awareness. It's a sign that he sees everything as meaningless void. And this causes non resistence to everything even pain. 

Only one who is in that state of total recognition that everything is void can sit in pain without suffering. Therefore one who is beyond suffering is at the peak of awareness. And budhhism aims at this.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Salvijus

[Rilles]

5 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

"Ancient sages when they see all the non-duality wars on the forum" LOL

Dont have to be a sage to see the humor in all these duality wars. Everyday its the same thing. Like watching cars on highway passing by. Making alot of noise going nowhere. Or like raindrops crashing down on your window. Thread after thread... round and round. 

[Raptorsin7]

12 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Dont have to be a sage to see the humor in all these duality wars. Everyday its the same thing. Like watching cars on highway passing by. Making alot of noise going nowhere. Or like raindrops crashing down on your window. Thread after thread... round and round. 

I meant that the sages would be yelling no like Michael scott lol

[Nos7algiK]

2 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Dont have to be a sage to see the humor in all these duality wars. Everyday its the same thing. Like watching cars on highway passing by. Making alot of noise going nowhere. Or like raindrops crashing down on your window. Thread after thread... round and round. 

"There are no threads"
"There is no one to go round and round."
"Sages are imaginary"
"The window is you"
"There is no you"
"Nothing is everything"
" void noises "

The silliness of the non-duality wars makes me laugh. 

[ADD]

Just now, Nos7algiK said:

The silliness of the non-duality wars makes me laugh. 

This. Hahahha 

[Rilles]

3 minutes ago, Nos7algiK said:

"There are no threads"
"There is no one to go round and round."
"Sages are imaginary"
"The window is you"
"There is no you"
"Nothing is everything"
" void noises "

The silliness of the non-duality wars makes me laugh. 

?? Truly a wise master right here.

[Moksha]

4 hours ago, gettoefl said:

go look at your calendar

is there something or someone tonight tomorrow this weekend next week next month next year

that you are either eagerly looking forward to or sorely dreading the arrival of?

if yes, you have work

if no, then this present moment is serving you richly wondrously blissfully stupendously and nothing else is needed

Exactly. You can be awake, but if you are still suffering from some perception of past or future, you are not enlightened.

[Intense]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no such thing as a sober or natural state. These are childish and dualistic ideas. There are an infinite number of different states of consciousness. No one state is "true" or "orginal" or "the default” state.

This is a very imporant point to understand to fundamentally destroy the notion of objective reality.

in fact, I think it is important to make this point from the material perspective, because in this way the material perspective shows that it collapses in on itself:

According to the material perspective, our mental states are purely dependent on the material makeup of our brain. This means that according to the material perspective, there is actually no way to tell a “default state” from an “altered” state. The neurotransmitters in an altered state are different, but in your default state, they are just different neurotransmitters! There is no way to see which states are “real” or “objective” when using the material perspective. 
 

However the material perspective itself is based on an “objective” reality which can be “correctly observed” using the “default state”. 

 

[QandC]

Damn.. I've got some comments to read

Edited December 8, 2021 by QandC

[Hello from Russia]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Maybe it's possible for some genetic freaks. But not normal people, and not even serious Buddhist teachers like Shinzen and others I have talked to.

For example, Daniel Ingram does not know what God is. Why not? Are you gonna out-meditate Daniel Ingram or Shinzen? Hahaha

God-realization requires a very specific hyper-interconmected state of consciousness which I have not seen meditation producing much. Meditation is not really designed for that. It is designed to still the mind, which is not enough to realize God. God-realization requires an infinite comprehension of reality, not merely a stillness. This level of comprehension is basically impossible for a human mind to acheive without some special chemistry.

Funny enough, the problem is chemical. The bottom line is your neurotransmitters suck. Insufficient neuronal interconnections.

Damn, makes me think that there are other more efficient meditation techniques that can be invented. 

[Javfly33]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no such thing as a sober or natural state. These are childish and dualistic ideas. There are an infinite number of different states of consciousness. No one state is "true" or "orginal" or "the default".

The "sober" state is relatively very low and always will be because you could not survive in a high state.

So there is.  ??

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

 

Reminded me of some trip reports. 

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

To extend a little bit on this.

The other way to end suffering is to see everything as meaningless void. If you don't give any meaning to pain because you're totally aware that it's nothing at all. Then that will also be the end of suffering and resistence.

These are the two ways to end the suffering. Either you accept everything as a part of yourself and you love it all including pain. Or you see everything as utterly meaningless void including pain. That also causes the end of resistence and suffering.

This makes very much sense to me. Please consider this. Don't dismiss this in one breath ?

suffering disappears when resistance disappears. suffering is resistance to what is. the rebellion of the ego that superimposes the "should be" on what is and refuses to accept it. if the "should be" disappears ... relax and enjoy. you don't have to be a Buddhist teacher. not having a heavy ego is enough. Life is wonder without the should be

[Consilience]

41 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

God-realization requires a very specific hyper-interconmected state of consciousness which I have not seen meditation producing much. Meditation is not really designed for that. It is designed to still the mind, which is not enough to realize God.

For as many books as you've read on the topic and you still think meditation is about stilling the mind? How could you even begin to imagine what thousands upon thousands of hours of meditation does to the mind? Do you not see how deeply self-deceptive you're being here? What happened to direct experience is king? 

Edit: The quote feature quoted the user @Hello from Russia, but the original quote is from @Leo Gura

Edited December 8, 2021 by Consilience

[Zeroguy]

You die and 'melt' into Infinite Love that you really are. 

[Moksha]

You can easily still the mind by drinking a few long island iced teas until you pass out, drooling on the floor. Meditation is less about stilling the mind than about opening the curtain of your conditioning to the infinite sun, which is your true nature.

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

What happened to direct experience is king? 

?? Hi me. 

[knakoo]

6 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

@Consilience ???I agree.

Sure Psychedelics Will always take you hundreds of degrees higher, But so What Lmao? 99% of people want their awakening to stick)integrated into everyday Life. And for that Im afraid Psychedelics work poorly, if not even makes It harder since It makes you see nostalgic/apathy the fact that you wont ever be Able to get to those states sober much of the time. 99% of people would choose living in a baseline of a certain high state of Consciousness such as high mindfulness/no self (But very low compared to that ones of Psychedelics) that living in identification with ego/thoughts mind, But be Able to go to absolute Infinity a couple of times a month. Like, woah, its obvious.

It took me some time to learn that Psychedelics are really "hang Up the phone when you get the message", I used to believe Leo about the do 150 trips rule, But after seeing that Psychedelics really Dont up the baseline Consciousness and really they share a lot of the side effects that all drugs have,Im afraid Im beggining to clearly see they have a ceiling in terms of What value they can offer to humans,  and It looks that sober Boring methods are really the only option of any kind of real possibility of living in a certain high level of Consciousness and embodying/integrating stuff

Actually it doesn't have to be just be "hang Up the phone when you get the message", then back to baseline and working hard. Psychedelics can actually increase your baseline level of consciousness.

Regular use of psychedelics in moderate doses can be an amazing tool for healing for instance. Carrying a lot of trauma has a big impact on baseline consciousness.

You also have many cases of people who permanently drop part of their ego and have a shift in consciousness after big trips. Take Mike Tyson for instance  

In my case, low moderate doses of psychedelics put me in perfect conditions to have crazy downloads of consciousness/light/grace that definitely raise my baseline (I am on a path of shaktipat/spiritual transmissions). I have done close to 150 trips and there were all very beneficial.

However I can see how an overuse of heroic doses or extremely powerful psychedelics can be a big trap. 

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

?? Hi me. 

Hai ?

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

And how do you know that?

Cause I am God.

Quote

You think that that's the definitive answer because of some experiences you've had, but it's equally possible that someday you will experience the opposite or something entirely different and then renounce that conclusion.

No. Absolute is Absolute.

Quote

The human mind can never get a hold on God no matter the chemicals. The mind can only run around in circles.

You are the one here bullshitting in circles.

7 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Now about suffering and pain. What causes suffering? I would say, if you are totally identified with everything you will turn even pain into joy. You sayed everything is love. So even pain is love if one totally accepts pain as a part of his identity. 

My claim is. One who accepts the entire universe as his identity even pain. He will not resist the pain. He will love the pain and will experience the end of suffering. 

Except you are denying and resisting suffering now.

Notice your bias against suffering. This is not the highest Love. The highest Love would not seek to escape suffering since suffering is an important and valid part of consciousness.

God created suffering for good reason.

Preoccupation with eliminating suffering is not a good thing.