Meditation and psychedelics, led me to... apathy?

[Forza21]

Hi. I've been into spiritual path for a while now. Ive done many things such as meditation, psychedelics, presence on daily basis, and so on.

Ive noticed, how pointless the ego drive is. It doesn't matter what you do, it doesn't matter if u seek pleasure, sex, money, power, whatever. I literally sit all day, and im not able to start anything. 

So i've stopped, doing anything. I'm like in apathy, asking myself " what's the point anyway?" Life is pointless. 

I don't feel horrible about it, but i have 0 energy to live, 0 drive to do anything. Furthermore, I know, that it won't give me happiness anyway.

Is it normal? Have u guys been there?

Edited December 7, 2021 by Forza21

[Chris365]

Sounds like a form of ego that tries to control and/or judge the newly found "pointlessness of the ego drive". Examine this (not so) subtle form of ego, made out of resistance to what is.

It is true that pleasure, money etc won't give you everlasting happiness. True happiness is without cause, and appears automatically when the veil of the separate self dissolves. 

Did the psychedelics that you've done not show you that when the ego is gone, all that's left is ... God? 

Also, the fact that life is pointless, is also pointless (meaningless). So contemplate why this 'fact' is assigned a negative meaning (apathy).

What you seem to need right now is a break (which is exactly what you're doing), so good job . 

When you feel ready to explore some more, try seeing the meaninglessness of life not as a negative, but as total freedom, unconstrained by social norms, unconditioned by meaning. Create your own meaning (or don't, it's THAT unconditionally free!)

[Forza21]

1 hour ago, Chris365 said:

Sounds like a form of ego that tries to control and/or judge the newly found "pointlessness of the ego drive". Examine this (not so) subtle form of ego, made out of resistance to what is.

It is true that pleasure, money etc won't give you everlasting happiness. True happiness is without cause, and appears automatically when the veil of the separate self dissolves. 

Did the psychedelics that you've done not show you that when the ego is gone, all that's left is ... God? 

Also, the fact that life is pointless, is also pointless (meaningless). So contemplate why this 'fact' is assigned a negative meaning (apathy).

What you seem to need right now is a break (which is exactly what you're doing), so good job . 

When you feel ready to explore some more, try seeing the meaninglessness of life not as a negative, but as total freedom, unconstrained by social norms, unconditioned by meaning. Create your own meaning (or don't, it's THAT unconditionally free!)

Thank you so much! Your reply gives me a ton of insights! 

 I'll stop doing anything related to spiritual growth for a while.

How do you find your life purpose, and what do you want to do? Cause after this realization, everything I see, is people chasing air (literally, money is printed, it is created from air!) and I'm not able to do that anymore, I simply don't want more. I had successful business, so right now i don't need to work as hard, I live very modest life, from my savings. Other friends, are still in the rush, for bigger car, house, whatever, and i live in my small cozy flat, and it's enough...But I need to do "something" whatever it is, to fill my time. What do you think?

and thanks, again, your reply really gave me hope, that there's nothing wrong with me.:) 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Forza21

[SonataAllegro]

Is it apathy or neutrality? you may be conflating the two.

The difference is subtle, but apathy requires a negative view of reality and future. You seem neutral to me. Neutrality means you no longer get your sense of security from accumulating things and experiences. Notice how the next two "levels" on this chart are willingness and acceptance. You DON'T need to do something to fill your life. Instead, the thought "I need to do something with my life" is keeping you in neutrality. Be okay living a modest life for a while and some kind of willingness to do something more will naturally emerge, it can't be forced.

[Leo Gura]

You're mis-doing it.

[Forza21]

10 minutes ago, SonataAllegro said:

Is it apathy or neutrality? you may be conflating the two.

The difference is subtle, but apathy requires a negative view of reality and future. You seem neutral to me. Neutrality means you no longer get your sense of security from accumulating things and experiences. Notice how the next two "levels" on this chart are willingness and acceptance. You DON'T need to do something to fill your life. Instead, the thought "I need to do something with my life" is keeping you in neutrality. Be okay living a modest life for a while and some kind of willingness to do something more will naturally emerge, it can't be forced.

 

I saw the David Hawkins scale, and i think it's rather neutral, but occasionally, there are some thoughts, that there's something wrong with me, and it goes down to apathy... Maybe you are right, maybe acceptance at first is the key. Thank you very much, sir!

Edited December 7, 2021 by Forza21

[bloomer]

@Forza21

2 hours ago, Forza21 said:

Is it normal? Have u guys been there?

Idk if it's normal but I have been there and am still there as well. If its a product of me experimenting with lsd or something else I'm not sure. But I do have an apathy because I realize the absurdity of life, my life and others. Being so caught up in this game and forgetting that it is just a game, life is not supposed to be lived seriously. 

2 hours ago, Forza21 said:

pleasure, sex, money, power

All of these are petty and egoic. But they're also base drives. I still have them but I question my own desire to have them. So what ends up happening is I cease to have the motive to pursue them because I see them as really absurd petty things. 

2 hours ago, Forza21 said:

I don't feel horrible about it, but i have 0 energy to live, 0 drive to do anything.

I don't feel horrible either but neither do I feel any motivation to do anything like you. 

@Chris365

1 hour ago, Chris365 said:

Sounds like a form of ego that tries to control and/or judge the newly found "pointlessness of the ego drive".

That's a really good and interesting point that I haven't though about enough. Which makes total sense. Clearly I haven't transcended having an ego. Like Forza I found that insightful so thanks. 

[Forza21]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You're mis-doing it.

Auch, when i first saw your reply, i thought, that it might be something insightful, maybe as guys above said, something about acceptance.  And now i feel there's something wrong with me, and i feel kinda bad, especially hearing that from you. Can you say something more, what seems to be the problem, from your perspective ? I'm going to be grateful. Thanks. 

[bloomer]

@SonataAllegro

Can you please explain that scale? I experience all those states occasionally. 

[Forza21]

6 minutes ago, bloomer said:

@SonataAllegro

Can you please explain that scale? I experience all those states occasionally. 

it's from David Hawkings, search for his books:)

here's some insights:

 

[LfcCharlie4]

This is very normal, although I remember going through this especially pre-spirituality, very much a dark night of the soul. 

Once you realize Love, Joy & Happiness, you then partake in activities 'for those reasons' and simply for the fun of it. 

But yeah, you no longer believe a Lambo or whatever will make you happy, but you might still want to drive one for the fun of it, for example. 

Francis Lucille & Rupert Spira explain this well. 

@Nahm also does a great job with his conscious creation teachings, and remember not to feel guilty for wanting to create a life you love, we're here to have fun right? 

 

[aetheroar]

@Forza21 I’d recommend taking Leo’s short answers and ignoring them completely. He’s not appearing to be helpful or loving.

You are perfect as you are, truly. Notice that you want to be different, but also notice that you are exactly you and BE that fully with zero fucks given. Truly, this is the way. There’s no mis-doing, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with you. You are perfect and you are loved fully. 

Notice that it’s the thought of life being pointless which is making life feel pointless. It’s not actually pointless, it’s infinite mystery and infinite freedom to be yourself completely. If a thought feels bad to you, it’s because it’s not true for you. Thanks for this one, @Nahm  

Allow yourself to do what you love without feeling bad about it. If you feel like sitting all day, don’t hold shame about it, love it! Maybe listen to music, maybe do some arts, maybe find peace in the sitting itself. Life is literally infinite potential for you to do what makes you happy! Honestly I’d recommend putting on some music and dancing so ridiculously that you end up laughing at yourself, life is precious and is not supposed to be taken seriously, it’s childs play!

The life you knew as a child running through the forest...that’s still the world that you are.

Here for you, always in all ways <3

Love,

Love

[Forza21]

19 minutes ago, aetheroar said:

@Forza21 I’d recommend taking Leo’s short answers and ignoring them completely. He’s not appearing to be helpful or loving.

You are perfect as you are, truly. Notice that you want to be different, but also notice that you are exactly you and BE that fully with zero fucks given. Truly, this is the way. There’s no mis-doing, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with you. You are perfect and you are loved fully. 

Notice that it’s the thought of life being pointless which is making life feel pointless. It’s not actually pointless, it’s infinite mystery and infinite freedom to be yourself completely. If a thought feels bad to you, it’s because it’s not true for you. Thanks for this one, @Nahm  

Allow yourself to do what you love without feeling bad about it. If you feel like sitting all day, don’t hold shame about it, love it! Maybe listen to music, maybe do some arts, maybe find peace in the sitting itself. Life is literally infinite potential for you to do what makes you happy! Honestly I’d recommend putting on some music and dancing so ridiculously that you end up laughing at yourself, life is precious and is not supposed to be taken seriously, it’s childs play!

The life you knew as a child running through the forest...that’s still the world that you are.

Here for you, always in all ways <3

Love,

Love

 

DAMN, That's sooo powerful!

" If a thought feels bad to you, it’s because it’s not true for you"

yes, that's right.

I think we all share common mind, and you might be right, i just got attached to wrong ones, saying it might be something odd with me.  Your answer gave me more insight, maybe it's that "shame" of society who just simply cannot stop, and embrace not-doing for a moment. I think you might be right, nothing is wrong, and as said @SonataAllegro it cannot be force neither.  Thank you a lot.

BTW.

Some people claim, that GOD won't speak to them. IT DOES, using people mouths, when they follow their heart. Thanks for that! ( and us god i mean everything there is, including me and you)  

Edited December 7, 2021 by Forza21

[Forza21]

26 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

This is very normal, although I remem

ber going through this especially pre-spirituality, very much a dark night of the soul. 

Once you realize Love, Joy & Happiness, you then partake in activities 'for those reasons' and simply for the fun of it. 

But yeah, you no longer believe a Lambo or whatever will make you happy, but you might still want to drive one for the fun of it, for example. 

Francis Lucille & Rupert Spira explain this well. 

@Nahm also does a great job with his conscious creation teachings, and remember not to feel guilty for wanting to create a life you love, we're here to have fun right? 

 

Thank you very much sir, all the love to you!

[aetheroar]

15 minutes ago, Forza21 said:

DAMN, That's sooo powerful!

" If a thought feels bad to you, it’s because it’s not true for you"

yes, that's right.

I think we all share common mind, and you might be right, i just got attached to wrong ones, saying it might be something odd with me.  Your answer gave me more insight, maybe it's that "shame" of society who just simply cannot stop, and embrace not-doing for a moment. I think you might be right, nothing is wrong, and as said @SonataAllegro it cannot be force neither.  Thank you a lot.

BTW.

Some people claim, that GOD won't speak to them. IT DOES, using people mouths, when they follow their heart. Thanks for that! ( and us god i mean everything there is, including me and you)  

You got it 

There was an apathy for me as well on this path, even though sitting doing nothing but sipping tea in silence was my life for 8 years straight.

A question to ask yourself that might flip this around when feeling apathy is: what could possibly be better than this right now? For me, the answer (if being real with myself) was always:

“Nothing could be better, and if it could be, I have the potential to make it happen.”

When perfection is realized to be true over and over, even without doing anything differently, the perspective shift looks like this:

 

[Sage]

@Forza21 You might just have low testosterone my man, go get some comprehensive blood work done 

[Loving Radiance]

1 hour ago, Forza21 said:

And now i feel there's something wrong with me, and i feel kinda bad, especially hearing that from you

Nah, you are fine. Listen to yourself as the only authority here. How does it feel?

Does it feel like you are living life and being your highest expression of love when you stopped everything, or does it feel like you avoid yourself?

3 hours ago, Forza21 said:

So i've stopped, doing anything. I'm like in apathy, asking myself " what's the point anyway?" Life is pointless.

So what? Even saying "it's pointless" is pointless.

Assume your identity has you under control. You don't see how sneaky you are in using this belief to maintain your identity. Assume that this belief is simply made from the way a thought came up and made you focus on the pointlessnesss of life.

Something that I project on you that can be true is that stopping all practices is an ego-backlash to stay unconscious. You don't see yourself clearly. You are in your mind and not listening to your intuition. Your level of consciousness is barely high enough to register that there could be something off.

3 hours ago, Forza21 said:

Is it normal? Have u guys been there?

I felt the same on the comedown of a heroic mushroom trip when the identity resisted itself because it felt finite and survival was such a pain.

Btw have you watched Leo's video on nihilism?

[Nahm]

5 hours ago, Forza21 said:

Meditation and psychedelics, led me to... apathy?

Hi. I've been into spiritual path for a while now. Ive done many things such as meditation, psychedelics, presence on daily basis, and so on.

Ive noticed, how pointless the ego drive is. It doesn't matter what you do, it doesn't matter if u seek pleasure, sex, money, power, whatever. I literally sit all day, and im not able to start anything. 

So i've stopped, doing anything. I'm like in apathy, asking myself " what's the point anyway?" Life is pointless. 

I don't feel horrible about it, but i have 0 energy to live, 0 drive to do anything. Furthermore, I know, that it won't give me happiness anyway.

Is it normal? Have u guys been there?

Feelin the love yall ?? 

Two cents ….

Sounds like the absurdity & ridiculousness of striving, craving & averting in the pursuit of happiness (the alleged ego) has been clearly seen & rightfully called out for what it is… shenanigans, total bamboozlement. Well done. 

And yet it also sounds like the happiness… and all the ideas, insights, eagerness for what’s to come, has not quite ‘arrived’ yet. 

Rather than zest, aliveness, and enthusiasm, there is presently an experience of an apathetic limbo of sorts. So what gives, and what to do about it. 

 

I know the happiness that I am to have a nature indicative of a cork, as Esther Hicks describes. I can not make the cork  rise, or, float. It’s TOO good, TOO effortless for that. That, would still be a pinch of tomfoolery on my part. I can hold it underwater without even noticing that, or how I am doing so… but I can not make it float. Whenever I attempt to, all that is found is essentially, ‘I’m not gettin it, there’s something I’m not getting here… I know it’s always, always, always, numbskull lets go, source floats, numbskull rides the wave, so what gives, what am I missin?’

Even to graciously hold a most subtle expectation… that when I do let go of whatever it is I’m ‘holding’, the cork will float… is too much effort for the cork, with a simple expectation like that, the cork is held underwater. 

So I suggest there is still something being carried, weighing down that cork a bit, and two things come to mind from the very little info available here:

 

Collective shame might be what has arisen, to come up & out. Might be holdin that cork down a bit. Maybe a little bitty resistance is felt. Maybe shame is ‘seen through’, but not entirely. 

I think it is helpful to simply call shame exactly what it is in direct experience - a concept. If shame has come today, it has come via thoughts focused on. If these thoughts are focused on, the discord felt is enough to hold our ever-loving, ever-giving, unconditional cork, under water. ? We’re smart peoples though, and we can inspect. 

Shame is a collective belief, a concept, it was learned, and is not an emotion and is not a feeling. The feeling, is the cork saying, “awe heck no, that ain’t true of me at all, yall are weird up in there”. 

Shame is not an emotion.

One more time cause I know it’s collectively in there deep… 

Shame. Is not. An emotion. 

It’s what you’re thinkin. And what you’re thinkin, is discordant (cork saying hell no). That is what is felt. LOVE, is what is felt. Love, unconditional, is what is felt. Shame, well, it’s pretty conditional. 

Simply put… you are at that ‘place’, where it behooves you to go on, to depart, to leave the herd in this way. It does not matter if 8 billion believe the same thing - that does not make it true, and that does not equate to the feeling of alignment. Admittedly, this is easier for me because of the state I am in. In the Midwest, we tend to think more like this…

“So I have been sent here to destroy you… and there's a million just like me, who cuss like me, who just don't give a fuck like me, who dress like me, walk, talk and act like me, and just might be the next best thing - but aren’t quite me.”

All that’s called for here, is a little less of the collective horse shit, and a little more you. That’s it. 

The horse shit which could be let go (and I hope you’re in a good mood right now ?)… might be… “spiritual ego”. 

Who is this one this story is about? This one who meditated, took psychedelics, etc, this one who believes apathy is an emotion, this one who believes it could be in apathy… ….who are you talking about!?

 

There is nothing wrong with you! That’s the pinnacle of bullshittery! 

I suspect that belief about us all sharing a common mind is at play there. As was said, if it doesn’t feel good, it isn’t true for you. Don’t think on that one, let it go, so insight can arise in the cleared out space. It will, but don’t expect it to. Expect to have boat loads of carefree fun. That is like a flame, which insights are like moths to. Somebody has issues, those issues aren’t yours. Somebody’s still looking through shame, that’s a somebody-sized issue, not yours. Be crazy enough to depart. You never feel a ‘common mind’. You do feel your own beliefs resonating or not, when you witness someone coming from shame who is feeling the discord of it. 

If I was in your shoes, I’d go through the motion. I’d bring this shame shenanigan to mind, I’d open my front door, and I’d wave my hand as if slapping an ass, and slap that shame right on out the front door. Then I’d say with a Gordon Ramsey like conviction, “fuck off already!” and I’d slam the door in it’s dumb face and be done with it. 

Much love. ?

And of course, as usual, I’d stop looking to thoughts floating around in the ether for what I want to create, and simply make a dreamboard, and enjoy the thrill-ride of conscious co-creating. 

 

[mamad]

5 hours ago, Forza21 said:

So i've stopped, doing anything. I'm like in apathy, asking myself " what's the point anyway?" Life is pointless. 
 

you are in good place buddy. you realize the game.  it is all ego game . survival is completely pointless when you see the Truth.

but

instead of asking yourself if its a game what is the point of playing it?

ask yourself if its a game what is the point of not playing it?

[ZenSwift]

@Forza21 Very interesting graphic