People get angry at me when I show that I'm upset with them. What kind of bs is this?

[Rilles]

7 minutes ago, somegirl said:

I understand.... Though when someone would tell me I hurt them, my first reaction would be surprise of course (for the reasons you mentioned) but then I would try to make it right, especially if it's person I care about. So I don't understand how is it difficult thing to do when you're literallz friends with someone.

Guess it depends on the level of consciousness of the person. If you have friends with dense egos they might be more reactive and take things the wrong way. I know some people in my life like that, love them dearly, but they can be quite difficult to tell hard truths to, which life sometimes requires. 

If you grew up constantly criticized by your parents then criticism can sometimes be seen as an attack. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Rilles

[somegirl]

10 hours ago, tsuki said:

To them, it was never about you, which is exactly why it was hurtful to you.

I take things personally. It would actually help me to know that their behaviour is not about me.

10 hours ago, tsuki said:

Also, notice that the situation in which you were hurt is already gone, and that you are the one that brings the pain into the conversation and in doing so, prolong it.

Well, I want to selve the issue between my friend and I. That's why 'I'm prolong it'. I just don't want to hold negative feelings so I wanted to communicate and get the issue solved. Which is, it seems like, such an unrealistic expectation from my side. 

11 hours ago, tsuki said:

You cannot handle this properly if you dress up in self-righteousness, moral superiority, or victimhood.

Well I ,unfortunately but honestly, do this.
But I don't think it's neediness. I want us to solve the problem we had so we can both move on with clear hearts.

11 hours ago, tsuki said:

What should be done is to withdraw from the relationship until you feel better and feel that you are ready to spend some time with them again. You have no right over this relationship, its nature is completely transitory. If you hold on to it and "make it work", you break it. A relationship that must work is not worth having.

This last part is true... Just need to let it go.

[somegirl]

8 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Guess it depends on the level of consciousness of the person. If you have friends with dense egos they might be more reactive and take things the wrong way. I know some people in my life like that, love them dearly, but they can be quite difficult to tell hard truths to, which life sometimes requires. 

Guess I'm just surrounded by those kind of people then.
I just don't know how a relationship or friendship can thrive and stay alive if there is no honesty and communication? 

[somegirl]

22 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

I don't know why, but you could analyze how you bring these things up. Do you use a tone that is either of escalating or de-escalating nature. E.g. many people use expressions like "You always do XYZ...that is very annoying to me...". That is a very accusatory tone that makes people defensive and pisses them off.

Maybe I do without realizing. But I'm VERY generally considerate of other people's feelings and how what I say could be interpreted by them.
 

22 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Better would be something like "I don't mean to upset you or anything, but I have noticed that you did XYZ a few times (if asked you can give examples), and it is something that makes me feel [insert feeling]. How do you perceive this?" .

This is beautifully said.

22 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Basically we're talking about non violent communication here. You can research that if you need to know more.

Didn't know about this term, will look more into it.

[Rilles]

5 minutes ago, somegirl said:

Guess I'm just surrounded by those kind of people then.
I just don't know how a relationship or friendship can thrive and stay alive if there is no honesty and communication? 

What exactly did they do? How bad were you hurt/upset? Maybe those friends are not good for you? You need to be with people who value the same things as you. 

[somegirl]

4 minutes ago, Rilles said:

What exactly did they do? How bad were you hurt/upset? Maybe those friends are not good for you? You need to be with people who value the same things as you. 

No, it wasn't that bad. I have also cut off people who are not honest with me.

But this particular friend I'm talking about kinda shows these concerning signs. Instead of acknowladging my emotions, they would rather get mad at me for telling them their behaviour upset me once. 

[Rilles]

4 minutes ago, somegirl said:

No, it wasn't that bad. I have also cut off people who are not honest with me.

But this particular friend I'm talking about kinda shows these concerning signs. Instead of acknowladging my emotions, they would rather get mad at me for telling them their behaviour upset me once. 

Hm... seems like a red flag. Unless you really enjoy this friendship despite these problems I guess you will eventually drift apart. It takes alot of energy dealing with emotional toxicity and you will get tired of it. Hope it works itself out. Peace!

[Salvijus]

@somegirl ?

Okey, okey, sorry for sarcasm.

Here is my highest wisdom coming from now on.

honestly it's very hard to picture the whole scenario based on your describtion of what happened.

In general, expossing stupidness is always a painful and embarrassing experience for everbody. Ego is an insecure thing, it always thinks It’s right and perfect. A natural resistence and denial will happen if you challenge that. Unless it's a very concious self honest being. People are usually very defensive about themselves so you have to be sensitive enough to know how much you can push it. You can’t just call somebody stupid moron straight in their face even if it's true. Not everbody is open and concious enough to take it ? 

if you want to learn the art of relationships you need to become more sensitive and self-aware, qualities like compassion and care help. You're not going to logic your way into every situation and how you should act in every different situation. It's an intuitive thing. You have to feel when you're stepping on someones toes but also not to support their stupidness. There's always an appropriate action in every situation. And there's no technique to tell you what that action must be. If you’re concious enough you will know it from within, if not then there will be endless friction in relationships. That's just the price we pay for being unconscious.

But honestly it just feels like a random drama that happens between women that is not of much importance really.

Okey I'll leave myself out now ? 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Salvijus

[Karmadhi]

I think it is fundamentally an ego backlash. If you have seen Leo's episode about it then you know what ego backlash is.

When you tell people something bad their sense of self feels threatented and ofc the ego reacts in a defensive angry way. Most people are not even aware of this stuff so they just get angry on auto pilot. Someone like you might have done the self-work to be aware when an ego backlash is happening and can stop yourself in the moment. Most people have not and will just act on their emotions (caused by the ego backlash) on autopilot.

 

[Nahm]

@somegirl

Your emotions are guidance in regard to your thoughts. Same for them. No one is creating and experiencing your emotions but you. Same for them. When you treat people the way you want to be treated, if & when someone treats you otherwise, there is no triggering, no anger. Don’t settle for concepts. Doesn’t work. Understand the actual emotions, the direct experience. 

[Mz Hyde]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

In general, expossing stupidness is always a painful and embarrassing experience for everbody.

This should never be your goal 'cause it'll inevitably lead to worsening the situation. Don't even take another person in your mouth, just focus on YOURSELF, on what YOU feel and need.

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

And there's no technique to tell you what that action must be.

Not true. Nonviolent communication is the answer. It's like a foreign language. You have to practice it because it's not natural to you, but it's possible to learn, just take some time. Basically you need to start translating 'offensive' words from others into emotions and needs. For example, if you hear 'You are so selfish and only think about yourself!' as 'I'm angry because I have a need for understanding and empathy.', it won't make you angry, on the contrary, it'll put you in a position to stay calm and react properly.

If you want to learn more about this, read the book I recommended above.

[hyruga]

Some people are just jacka$$ who wants to dominate eVery conversation. Just let it go.

 

 

[Salvijus]

@Mz Hyde I like you too ?

[integral]

Are you a ESTJ?

[tsuki]

13 hours ago, somegirl said:

I take things personally. It would actually help me to know that their behaviour is not about me.

Why would it be about you? Why would anybody want to hurt you intentionally, with full understanding that they are inflicting pain?

Let's invert this situation. Try to imagine that you stand in front of a person, and deliberately do something that they don't want, precisely because they don't want it, just to inflict pain. Not because you are reacting to something within you, like anger (which not about them, but about you), but to do it for "their" sake. What would be a reason?

13 hours ago, somegirl said:

Well, I want to selve the issue between my friend and I. That's why 'I'm prolong it'. I just don't want to hold negative feelings so I wanted to communicate and get the issue solved. Which is, it seems like, such an unrealistic expectation from my side. 

The issue is not "between you and them". This is your issue. You are hurt, they are not, they are not thinking about it. For them, it does not exist. There is no magical space that is sprung "between", in which the problem hangs. 

When you want to "communicate your negative feelings" to them, what you communicate is that you want them to change the way in which you feel. This is not possible. You are creating your own feelings by thinking. Let me get more specific.

You are thinking that something must be true, and when people's behavior does not correspond to these expectations, you feel bad. Then, you react to this feeling and blame the person for "doing this to you". This is a little bit abstract, so let me give you a few examples that may, or may not fit your case:

1. You may think that you are a good person, and that it means that people ought to be kind to you. When people are unkind, you feel bad because it violates your assumption that you are good. Then, you react to this feeling and try to make other people act kindly towards you, so that you can think of yourself that you are a good person. But the misunderstanding here is that people act unkindly for reasons that are unrelated to you. People may be unkind because they have to stomach a perfectionist boss that is abusive towards them. They are unkind because they their have a toothache. They are unkind because they were just thinking about a teacher that scolded them unfairly in third grade. The truth is that people's behavior towards you, and your moral standing are unrelated.
2. You may also think that the purpose of relationships is to provide pleasure, to have good time. When difficult emotions arise (and they inevitably do), you think that you do something wrong and blame yourself for "not being social enough", for not being pleasant. What is missed here is that people's emotions are related to your behavior only through their interpretation. Their interpretation is, in turn, strongly related to their beliefs.

Regardless of whether these examples fit, or not, their common theme is that there is a belief that emotions are something external, that is done to you, and that you are a passive recipient of them. This is false. You are creating your emotions by thinking about people, about the world, etc.

Edited December 8, 2021 by tsuki

[Gesundheit2]

I find that most of the times, how you express yourself is a lot more important than what's actually being said. The way we communicate says different things than the things we intend to say. The choosing of words is critical, but it doesn't stop there. Body language and vocal tone are important, but it doesn't stop there either. If you don't naturally have a way with words, this can take some effort to correct, but at least it's fixable.

Some people have magical speaking abilities, they can say things very subtly and softly, and you'll end up doing what they want from you with a warm and welcoming heart, even if it's against what you wanted initially. @Nahm comes to mind when thinking about this kind of people. Maybe he can give us some tips here, even though for him it might seem like a very intuitive natural and normal thing. I'm interested to hear him deconstruct his own style, no pressure though @Nahm

Edited December 8, 2021 by Gesundheit2

[Nahm]

@Gesundheit2

The truth is there’s no answer because it isn’t a doer doing thing, so there isn’t stuff I could suggestion one do. It’s just letting go of discordant thought, perspectives & views and feeling alignment more & more acutely, and abiding there in. Could say sensitivity experientially increases as you do. Same trial & error over here as over there so to speak. 

But that’s potentially a non answer, which can seem cryptic or vague. So the most practical answer I can give is get a guitar and start learning it, and learning to sing, and start writing songs. And now concepts like bias etc are likely arising to an extent that sounds like Nahm’s personal thingy and the suggestion is already missed, as in not really considered. 

But the suggestion, when entertained, when tried, is profound because expression & transmutation are profound. It’s not about getting famous, or even singing well, etc. And that is (I presume) very difficult to grasp. That the suggestion doesn’t have a point, or, is valueless. 

If I experience this (thread topic) and the emotions therein, and end up with some of the trial & error discord, for me it’s not really discord at all, it’s an emotional experince about to be had, via a new song about to be written. 

[Nahm]

@Gesundheit2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X5Dr-uFVGw

 

[ndm678]

On 12/6/2021 at 5:09 PM, Mz Hyde said:

The question is HOW you communicate what bothers you. I recommend a book 'Nonviolent communication' by Marshall Rosenberg.

@Mz Hyde I picked up this book yesterday after reading this thread. I think it's solid gold. Thanks for the recommendation, even if it wasn't aimed at me ?

[Mz Hyde]

@ndm678 You are welcome, I'm glad to hear that.. it was aimed at everyone 'cause I really think that this world would be a better place if everybody read it, but unfortunately some people didn't get that and instead got offended (which I'm sorry for, even though I haven't meant or IMO did anything wrong).

Much love.. aimed at everyone <3

Edited December 9, 2021 by Mz Hyde