What is Enlightenment?

[Yeah Yeah]

Reading older posts - Ekhart Tolle was suicidal and then he reached enlightenment, which Leo says is rare? 

Side notes for ethical debate and reasoning ...  I think suicide should be made legal, except you must be on a waiting list for six months and if you're still feeling like life is a trap you can opt out. And I do not believe in a terrible afterlife full of human regrets, because the body turns to dust which is exactly what we want,

Now I get intense frustration, and people then say there is no 'I' or 'person' who is frustrated, but then they say oh you're such and such, stop being selfish ... but wait, there's not a 'person' or 'I' to stop being selfish? I genuinely do not think one can be any less selfish and become selfless, and anyone teaching so called selflessness, I can only continue to disagree; because surely the singularity will be selfish, as it cannot be selfless to an apparent 'other' if it were a singularity? 

Further on, a singularity I imagine goes inwards, not outward. Moreover, isn't the the apparent 'observer' of say intense spontaneous thoughts and emotions with all the rest of the complex processes occurring to the supposed frustrated experiencer ‘I’, also a dualistic teaching? To explain myself more clearly here, to say there is an invisible observer separate from the complex frustrating experiences which occur and make up the supposed 'I'? Isn't that a dualistic teaching?

Third - Third, Leo said in a previous post that I was immature and perhaps I'm best to stay away from DMT, but I was joking around and the comment was more so a light hearted parody of lets say Ram Dass who rubbed his Ghuru's feet. Hence I got frustrated and I took it personally, because I hate people telling me things that aren't accurate and its likely a false judgement. So the question is, does one continue to take life personally, I mean lets say you're trying to be a certain way like working hard, but your partner in the household says you're lazy when you leave your socks on the floor each time you come in after work, and your partner doesn't understand how hard you have worked in the past, no one does, and yet there's not a whole lot to show up for the hard work you're commited to in the past, and your partner thinks you're lazy in the house hold? Side note - perhaps the comment  Leo made was for my own safety to avoid drugs and not be immature about spiritual development, understandable, however I was still personal hence my question about things being personal in relationships that hurt, irritate and frustrate myself,

Fourth - I do not think enlightnement exists, as does U.G. Krishnamurti, and two different people who preach about it probably have two very different ideas or experiences about "enlightenment". 

Fifth - Love DOES NOT exist, it does as a selfish human experience. For example, I like the way you make me feel, but I dislike and hate the way the other people make me feel. I'm selfish and I want you to continue to make me feel good, and so when I receive extra affectionate and non sexual intimacy do I feel really good and call that love. But those people who disregard me as deserving special attention, I hate those people. 

Okay, and Leo, I've been liking and appreciating your videos on YouTube recently, although I'm going to stand on the otherside of the fence and debate - Now, people will revert to saying I need medication or to be locked up in a looney asylum when I make points that I feel are valid, like these ones, and it would get on my nerves and I could escape these people either - I'm willing to perhaps alter my current ideas if yours resonates, although perhaps you won't alter your own to see these few points of views I've made to begin with, which I also question, so at the moment there's a fence and I'm happy to question selfishness and if enlightenment is an illusion, and if love is a fake transaction for survival, and suicidal should be legalized as well as drugs, 

Thank you in transaction for anyone's response or reading,

Edited December 5, 2021 by Yeah Yeah

[Breakingthewall]

the point is to loosen the structures of your ego, since they restrict you and prevent you from seeing from a broader perspective. The first step is to realize that you are imprisoned in the ego, with all its limitations, its attachments, rejections, fears, certainties. the second, to want to destroy that jail whatever it may be, at the cost of your life if necessary. The third, to do it

[Zeroguy]

Infinite Love, Love, You are Love. Go fucking spread it, embody it etc. 

All you. 

[Nahm]

Enlightenment is cessation. 

[silene]

7 hours ago, Nahm said:

Enlightenment is cessation. 

What ceases? 

(Serious question, I've heard of the term but don't understand it). 

Edited December 5, 2021 by silene

[Yeah Yeah]

@Breakingthewall Now, you are saying 'You' are trapped by the ego's limitations, however, please allow myself the pleasure to argue that there is no 'invisible observer' or 'you' separate from the spontaneous arising of memories, emotions, thoughts and all the other complex goings on as the whole organism one takes to being their self? I understand one attends Satsang to loosen their spontaneous arising thinking patterns, to which that individual resist against as if these spontaneous thoughts or emotions were 'bad', and so they are asked to become instead an invisible observer, which be supposedly separate from their brain which creates these complex spontaneous thoughts or emotions to which this person attending Satsang considers negative, or bad. So, what I'm pointing out, these thoughts, emotions and so on, even my actions typing this paragraph, has nothing to do with any invisible observer, they arise spontaneously - And I've meditated on this and observed, right down to the core of what I take to be 'me/you' has its own spontaneous machinery which is not my own free will. I do not exist with free will, and no thought, emotion, or action is my own, these happenings are spontaneous phenomena that occur on its own, because if I could be of my own free will, I'd be able to stop this organism at will, but I cannot stop this beating heart, these breathing lungs, these arising thoughts, nor can I direct emotions to selflessness because I or 'you' does not exist, an invisible observer does not exist, OF COURSE an invisible observer does not exist because it is completely invisible,

Furthermore, every Psychedelic experience is unique, never will a drug induced enlightenment experience ever repeat itself, no meditation or yoga will repeat in experience, and so all spiritual teachers may be experiencing completely different hallucinations to do with so called enlightenment and what they personally imagine to be 'love', which this love too is a form of survival pushed now into the afterlife saying 'god is love' which is just like saying there's a heaven or hell, or there’s karma one needs to clean after death, love is still a human projection for survival pushed onto the afterlife - which these spiritual leaders will manipulate their own hallucinations to fit in with society so that we too will follow them as correct, which they like to be on a pedestal and teach all the rest of us their self-induced special stories about a divine nature somewhere where we are unable to attend to, and some never do nor will, because it does not exist, the person who never accepts enlightenment all their life are just as natural a phenomena as a person who believes that they have done, but to say enlightenment is more special than the man who goes his entire life without enlightenment is disgraceful, 

Thank you, I'd love someone to suggest otherwise, 

Nor does love to exist, I have not felt love except for myself over these many years, and love for others has been for my own survival,

Also one can experience a nightmare psychadelic experience quite easily, perhaps more easily than one full of love, so which expeirnece is more correct? 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Yeah Yeah

[Yeah Yeah]

@Breakingthewall Tagging for above response, 

[Yeah Yeah]

@Zeroguy Your comment to me personally sounds like a Christian or Muslim spreading their religion to be correct, who says love is the answer? That might be your response to fear, and a projection onto the afterlife that love will save you from being in this perhaps tragic human predicament, but love is a perferred human emotion for survival here on Earth, and then projected into the afterlife out of fear of death, like believing a heaven or hell, or maybe its not love but peace you're hoping for? Or maybe karmic lives never ending? 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Yeah Yeah

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, silene said:

What ceases? 

(Serious question, I've heard of the term but don't understand it). 

“Everything”. 

[Yeah Yeah]

27 minutes ago, Nahm said:

“Everything”. 

Sounds like a concept you have no real reason for teaching. Sadghuru and many others say life goes on, so I think you're wrong and one of the other spiritual teachers are more accurate, see, here we have another personal talking about what they have no real understanding of what's being said. Simply a dog barking through a picket fence,

 

[Nahm]

@Yeah Yeah

Cessation of concepts, teachers, etc. 

[Breakingthewall]

@Yeah Yeah The issue, for me, is: the mind cannot, with mental processes, stop itself. you can go to satsang, read theory, whatever, but it's more mind. it takes an external agent to strike. for me that agent is 5 meo, complemented with hours of meditation every day. hit and disintegrate your mind for a while. It can be nice, horrible, whatever. the important thing is that it disintegrates your mind and then integrates again. here the mechanisms of the mind, its nature, are revealed. then you need to readjust your daily mental processes to integrate what has happened. You do it again, same process, over and over again. it is not so important what is revealed to you in the psychedelic trip, since one thing is the same as another thing. everything can become a belief. what is important is the mechanical act of disintegration of the mind and its reintegration. It happens only with meditation too, but in othel level .the mind itself sees what it is, more and more clearly. not conceptually. the same as you learn to hit a ball. muscle, cellular memory. until your ego stops being an iron cage and becomes volatile. you have dynamited its foundations 100 times, it is no longer so solid. dissolution occurs spontaneously, at any time. the mind ceases to be a jail to become a vehicle, an interface. resistance softens, disappears. reality flows, you're tuned in, the pieces fit, the experience goes from battle to sightseeing. It's easy to be free of the concept, of the need of understanding, of control. But first, you must really want to surrender that control, surrender yourself

Edited December 6, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Mosess]

28 minutes ago, Yeah Yeah said:

Sounds like a concept you have no real reason for teaching. Sadghuru and many others say life goes on, so I think you're wrong and one of the other spiritual teachers are more accurate, see, here we have another personal talking about what they have no real understanding of what's being said. Simply a dog barking through a picket fence,

 

when you cease, everything ceases with you 

[Mosess]

then "when" also ceases, but nothing remains

[silene]

9 hours ago, Nahm said:

“Everything”. 

Thanks! I assume this means "everything" rather than "every thing", in which case you've lost me in the paradox   Movement is relative and I can't get outside of everything to see if it was ever moving in the first place