Should US Split In Two?

[Rilles]

https://www.newsweek.com/47-west-coast-dems-66-southern-republicans-want-secede-us-1609875?amp=1

 

Do you think its a good idea? Will it solve the divide and democratic recession that is happening? 

[Preety_India]

Maybe a good idea. 

 

[Rilles]

Just now, Preety_India said:

Maybe a good idea. 

 

The problem is what happens to the Democrats that live in the Red states, they will be forced to move, some cant afford it. They will be forced live under the most theocratic system ever lol. 

[Epikur]

Just now, Rilles said:

The problem is what happens to the Democrats that live in the Red states, they will be forced to move, some cant afford it. They will be forced live under the most theocratic system ever lol. 

There are examples like between Turks and Greeks. It is easy in comparison.

[Preety_India]

9 minutes ago, Rilles said:

The problem is what happens to the Democrats that live in the Red states, they will be forced to move, some cant afford it. They will be forced live under the most theocratic system ever lol. 

A small sacrifice towards a bigger cause.

[Rilles]

9 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

A small sacrifice towards a bigger cause.

A sacrifice nonetheless. I guess there would have to be a system in place to help people move if they wanted to.

Its better than a civil war or total collapse. Imo. Still a very messy solution. And it doesnt help people evolve because it basically legitimizes the traditional system that the Republicans want. 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Rilles

[silene]

This is like turning back the clock and changing the result of the civil war. The Russians and Chinese would love for the US (or the EU for that matter) to split up and reduce their superpower status. And to damage the idea of multiculturalism where we can live together despite our differences. 

Where next, for conservative religions, racial groups to get their own parts? It doesn't bode well for all the other divided regions like Israel/Palestine, former Yugoslavia, the partitioned India, Northern Ireland. 

On the other hand, maybe the whole world should split into two, between people who embrace diversity and those who want stage blue cultural enclaves. 

[Rilles]

3 minutes ago, silene said:

This is like turning back the clock and changing the result of the civil war. The Russians and Chinese would love for the US (or the EU for that matter) to split up and reduce their superpower status. And to damage the idea of multiculturalism where we can live together despite our differences. 

Where next, for conservative religions, racial groups to get their own parts? It doesn't bode well for all the other divided regions like Israel/Palestine, former Yugoslavia, the partitioned India, Northern Ireland. 

On the other hand, maybe the whole world should split into two, between people who embrace diversity and those who want stage blue cultural enclaves. 

Alot of slippery slope arguing here. Whats your solution? 

[mandyjw]

No, we should combine with Canada. Canamerica anyone? Yes we can, I say. 

[Preety_India]

34 minutes ago, silene said:

This is like turning back the clock and changing the result of the civil war. The Russians and Chinese would love for the US (or the EU for that matter) to split up and reduce their superpower status. And to damage the idea of multiculturalism where we can live together despite our differences. 

Where next, for conservative religions, racial groups to get their own parts? It doesn't bode well for all the other divided regions like Israel/Palestine, former Yugoslavia, the partitioned India, Northern Ireland. 

On the other hand, maybe the whole world should split into two, between people who embrace diversity and those who want stage blue cultural enclaves. 

You're trying to paint a picture of beautiful unity between different cultures which is nothing but utopia. In reality it's not that black and white as embracing versus cultural enclaves. Look at what diversity is doing to Europe. If it were that easy to co-exist together, there would be no wars. Not everyone is high conscious enough to be tolerant of other groups. Even if you see US as a multicultural state, I've visited the country and seen that people of different ethnic groups create their own pockets, for example blacks live in black neighborhoods, Chinese people set up their own colony within a city, Mexican create their own Hispanic neighborhoods and so on, unity is only a farce, in reality people tend to segregate and create their own niche comfort groups. This is human nature. This is a form of tribalism that is found everywhere, you'll see a French quarter here and an Italian quarter there, this sounds bad on paper yet reality isn't all that cute, as you would like to assume. 

Segregation is an effective option when people don't get along, instead of forcing them to get along. In fact I think that blacks and whites in America need to be segregated due to intense racial tensions. At some point living together is not worth the trouble. 

 

[silene]

@Rilles  @Preety_India

You're both perfectly right of course. In fact the US is already set up as a decentralised sort of compromise. The "state" is all the individual states, and the federal centre is the Union of states, a bit like the UK and the EU. So one solution is to see that the US is already a collection of nationalities, of countries, which share some functions through the centre. A bit like a congregational rather than an episcopal church.  We can tweak the relationship between states and union by more devolution, or more centralisation, through regular referendums. 
 
As a western european, I certainly recognise this issue of majority local neighbourhoods, vs a postmodern cultural mashup (aka multiculturalism) with supporters and opponents of both. We've got an uneasy compromise which may not last forever, it's under pressure at the moment.

Added to this is the money factor, most people are willing to accept a cultural dissonance if they've got a good job, nice home etc. I.e. as long as capitalism continues to deliver the goods, we're likely to turn a blind eye to the identity politics behind this. Segregation has a very unfortunate history though, as the separated groups end up seeking money and power for themselves, and you need to end up policing the borders created. 

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by silene

[Preety_India]

3 hours ago, silene said:

@Rilles  @Preety_India

You're both perfectly right of course. In fact the US is already set up as a decentralised sort of compromise. The "state" is all the individual states, and the federal centre is the Union of states, a bit like the UK and the EU. So one solution is to see that the US is already a collection of nationalities, of countries, which share some functions through the centre. A bit like a congregational rather than an episcopal church.  We can tweak the relationship between states and union by more devolution, or more centralisation, through regular referendums. 
 
As a western european, I certainly recognise this issue of majority local neighbourhoods, vs a postmodern cultural mashup (aka multiculturalism) with supporters and opponents of both. We've got an uneasy compromise which may not last forever, it's under pressure at the moment.

Added to this is the money factor, most people are willing to accept a cultural dissonance if they've got a good job, nice home etc. I.e. as long as capitalism continues to deliver the goods, we're likely to turn a blind eye to the identity politics behind this. Segregation has a very unfortunate history though, as the separated groups end up seeking money and power for themselves, and you need to end up policing the borders created. 

 

Policing the borders is better than constant racial tensions and communal riots 

 

 

[Rilles]

25 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

This is Russian and Chinese wet dream. Especially Russian, since they are probably looking to invade Ukraine in a few months, and would love nothing more than for USA to be divided. Divide et Impera!

Interesting... Im not a Russian spy... promise...  

[Space Lizard]

Why only two? There's a famous book called The Nine Nations of North America that describes how North America naturally divides into nine economic and cultural regions. That would make more sense than a Red/Blue divide, which looks totally unworkable.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Space Lizard