Shadow Work and Painbody

[The White Rabbit]

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

Change = experience. 

Fair enough.

But that relative truth was trying to express another aspect through that, I think.

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

Shift from the focus on thoughts about a self, to receiving the guidance of the emotion. 

What if the emotions comes off as panic, about let's say getting insane from the experience?

“The psychotic drowns in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight.”

It doesn't feel good because it isn't true, but the emotion feels like sheer horror. What should I do?

Perhaps I am going to book a session with you to help me with all that stuff.

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

You will, and it will rock reality. 

[The White Rabbit]

46 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Spiritual bypassing is just putting thinking over feeling. The only way I can bypass, resist or seperate is by thinking.  It's the same old thing, believing a thought that feels off over listening to the feeling. Spiritual bypassing itself could become a thought that isn't resonating, rather than a helpful term. I don't abide by rules. I don't live in time. I don't have a painbody or a self concept outside of practical thought and language but this isn't because I did anything to get rid of them, you already don't either. This is already the case, prior to thought, except for maybe there are thoughts believed that it is otherwise.

But I am quite sure emotions can be off as well, and these find their root cause in a thought. Often the real thought is hidden, clouded by self deceiving ones.

My problems seems to be more on an emotional level that at a thought level, which is why I am interested in the painbody. How would you deal with recurring feelings of low self-worth, shame, fear of being unloveable and flawed?

In anyway, thanks for your help and commentaries. It's helpful.

[mandyjw]

3 minutes ago, The White Rabbit said:

But I am quite sure emotions can be off as well, and these find their root cause in a thought. Often the real thought is hidden, clouded by self deceiving ones.

Yes, so ultimately there is no real separation between emotion and thought, the emotion is the indicator of where the thought is coming from, what belief is behind the thought and how true it is. There is no "real thought", thought avoids thought with more thought. Feeling itself in real time cannot avoid. A thought of an emotion is a thought. Depression is a thought. Anger is a thought. In the present moment, in real time, ONLY are those emotions felt and they are not. You know what happens when we try to avoid thought? We think it. Don't think about purple elephants, don't think that, DON'T DO IT. Except since you don't give a damn about purple elephants, that example sort of sucks, because there already is no belief or attachment that that thought is bad. There may be though with the thought "depression". If feeling is guidance of how "true" a thought is and I think. "I'm depressed." Feeling will respond negatively, I will have negative emotion. But if I don't understand that feeling is for feeling, NOT for thinking and is NEVER a thought, I will interpret that negative emotion AS the depression. ??????? Holy shit Batman. That's all I have to say about that.

10 minutes ago, The White Rabbit said:

My problems seems to be more on an emotional level that at a thought level, which is why I am interested in the painbody. How would you deal with recurring feelings of low self-worth, shame, fear of being unloveable and flawed?

Feelings, feelings, really feelings? Nuh uh. You are mistaking thoughts for feelings. Those are thoughts. Thoughts that aren't true. That feeling is saying nope to them. Duped. You been duped. Feeling is now. Now. Now. Now. Now. Now.

 

Now.

 

 

Now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Still now.

 

 

 

 

 

Only now.

 

11 minutes ago, The White Rabbit said:

In anyway, thanks for your help and commentaries. It's helpful.

[The White Rabbit]

9 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Feelings, feelings, really feelings? Nuh uh. You are mistaking thoughts for feelings. Those are thoughts. Thoughts that aren't true. That feeling is saying nope to them. Duped. You been duped. Feeling is now. Now. Now. Now. Now. Now.

 

Now.

 

 

Now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Still now.

 

 

 

 

 

Only now.

It happens that in the now, while the present moment in actuality is peaceful, an emotional reaction in my body isn't.

I am subject to negative emotions overtaking my body due to some triggers. In this circumstances, there is nothing to do but to witness and accept it. But I don't always manage to do so, because sometimes, I trigger emotions which seem too strong to cope with and generate a thought emotion loop.

Edited December 5, 2021 by The White Rabbit

[mandyjw]

10 minutes ago, The White Rabbit said:

It happens that in the now, while the present moment in actuality is peaceful, an emotional reaction in my body isn't.

I am subject to negative emotions overtaking my body due to some triggers. In this circumstances, there is nothing to do but to witness and accept it. But I don't always manage to do so, because sometimes, I trigger emotions which seem too strong to cope with and generate a thought emotion loop.

So while this is your experience and truth and I don't want to disrespect that, how does it feel to write/read/think those words? Might you write me a version of this that states how you intend to or want to experience emotion? What are the most beautiful, profound emotions, what do they feel like? How do you feel when you listen to music you love? How does it feel to drop a thought that feels bad or see that it is not so? If you drive 4 hours and think you forgot something really important you needed but realize you were mistaken when you find it, how does that relief feel to realize nothing was missing? You could say that every thought that feels horrible has behind it, a flip side of very strong relief, bliss even. Worth investigating. You have to get curious about it. Get playful, have fun with it. Curiosity is a special kind of stupidity that is prior to and foundational for knowledge. They aren't separate.

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, The White Rabbit said:

What if the emotions comes off as panic, about let's say getting insane from the experience?

That’s one of the beauties of using the emotional scale, panic & insanity aren’t emotions. 

1 hour ago, The White Rabbit said:

“The psychotic drowns in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight.”

It doesn't feel good because it isn't true, but the emotion feels like sheer horror. What should I do?

Use the scale, start with whichever emotion on the scale seems most like the emotion you are experiencing. Horror is fiction, and is also not on the scale. I don’t mean that as your experience is not valid of course, but there is a certain honing of acuity in understanding using the scale. Of course, it is just one tool of many. 

1 hour ago, The White Rabbit said:

Perhaps I am going to book a session with you to help me with all that stuff.

Anytime. ?? 

[Mosess]

9 hours ago, The White Rabbit said:

Thank you for your answer, even though it wasn't exactly what I was expecting

Maybe what you are expecting is what needs to be sit through, felt, accepted and let go of