How do i stop identifying with the body?

[Sine]

I have discovered that a lot of my issues would be dissolved from identifying less with the body. This being for example; abandonment fears, existential loneliness, fear of being hurt in genereal, feelings of being weak, feelings and beliefs about needing protection, eating disorder-stuff etc. and also a sense of me not being able to achieve the same things/reach the same levels of consciousness as men (a deep limiting belief that I have become more and more aware of recently). 

I'm very excited about having discovered this but I'm also frustrated because I want to move on now. 

Basically it feels like a lot of growth would come from me learning to let go of this. So, If you have any recommendations of practices that helps one identifying less with the body and more as the whole universe I would really like for you to share them with me.

I practice Vipassana meditation and have been on retreats - but my problem here is that I "see" a picture of the body parts in my minds eye, when I'm scanning the body. In this video (see the link) Frank Yang recommends to let go of those images. Everything he says resonates a lot with me, but I have anyway not been able to do it, no matter how hard I try, the images keeps being there. I feel like letting go off those images, could be the key to detachment? But it seems almost impossible. If anyone have had struggles like this, and maybe resolved them, I would like for you to share. I feel really frustrated at this point!

(I have done some different psychedelics too so don't worry) 

(It's not that I haven't had experiences of being "more than my body" - I have definitely had them, but I want to make it stick to my daily life)

 Please help me succeed! 

All the love xoxo

 

[Leo Gura]

Psychedelics

You are also the body though.

[Sine]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Psychedelics

You are also the body though.

BUT LEO I DID THEM ! 

[Mason Riggle]

@Sine ask yourself if you are your entire body, or just part of it.

For example, are you 'your hair'?  When you cut off your hair, and it falls to the floor.. is that you on the floor?

What would happen to 'you', if you cut off your hand, would your hand still be 'you' also? Would there be two of you at that point?  

Are you 'your blood'.. or is 'your blood' inside of 'you'? If your blood leaks out a little.. have 'you' leaked out? 

[Batman]

Ask "Who am I?" and "What am I?". Be open to the possibility that you don't know who and what you are.

Also, contemplate the "I" thought. What is this thought? How did it came to be? Who or what does it refer to? 

When you are dreaming at night, is the body that you experience as "You" is who and what you are? Or is it a formed/localized aspect of the your mind that enables appearances from a specific point of view?

Do Psychedelics. If you are doing DMT/Psilocybin/LSD/Mescaline and can't see that life is a dream, amp up your meditation/contemplation practices. You probably have too much illusions or world view built around "life". If you want to speed up the process, I highly recommend Ayahuasca ceremonies. But they are intense and the Truth of who and what you can be extremely painful to a deluded and dense ego.

[BipolarGrowth]

47 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Psychedelics

You are also the body though.

This. If you’re doing vipassana, that’s probably the best “natural” approach, but you can only go so far so fast naturally. Psychedelics can save you quite a bit of time if used properly as is covered in a number of Leo’s videos. 

[Guest EmptyVase]

@Sine

Stop believing/assuming that the thoughts that are appearing in your experience are about you. A lot of thoughts carry the implication that they are about 'a you' - but that's just another thought. Try to look for a you, which is outside of the realm of thinking. I, to this day, couldn't find this person which allegedly exists.

To be clear here, I don't know if all identification stems from thought, but it sure plays a huge role. If someone knows better, I'd love to know.

[BipolarGrowth]

Also remember in Buddhism thoughts/mind is seen as a sixth sense door. The thoughts giving solidity to your body are more fleeting sensations. Maybe focus your vipassana on a balance of No Self & impermanence. 

[Loving Radiance]

5 hours ago, Sine said:

In this video (see the link) Frank Yang recommends to let go of those images. Everything he says resonates a lot with me, but I have anyway not been able to do it, no matter how hard I try, the images keeps being there. I feel like letting go off those images, could be the key to detachment? But it seems almost impossible. If anyone have had struggles like this, and maybe resolved them, I would like for you to share. I feel really frustrated at this point!

Yeah, letting go of these images is like letting go of thoughts. Seems like it's never ending. However, with all things practiced on a consistent basis this too will get easier and fluid. It takes a lot of rewirering for these ingrained habits.

When you drop a thought do you rest as awareness? For myself there is just nothing till another thought arises. Now imagine dropping an image which is attached to sensation. Let go of the image and rest as awareness. Just notice. Feel sensation without adding anything to it. It is a continuous process to arrive at the raw sensation. It takes time to rewire. Diligence & patience. Focus on sensation and come back to it whenever any image is laid onto it.

This was recognized on a vipassana retreat: All these stories coming up and dreams of highly distracting matters (especially having orgies & seeing demon faces lol) are the same as putting any layer on sensation. For a long time it was like awareness was a metal line that went to every body part. It was imagined that a chain lays itself on the parts where awareness currently is to notice sensation. It was assumed that this was awareness and it was normal. Then with more experience about appearing stories and imaginations of all kind this was realized and seen. There was no struggle as you describe it in your op, just a knowing that it's still not what's actual. There was a focus on sensation and letting go of anything else attached to it.

[Thought Art]

I am not sure I understand what your goal is?

[Random witch]

7 hours ago, Sine said:

abandonment fears, existential loneliness, fear of being hurt in genereal, feelings of being weak, feelings and beliefs about needing protection, eating disorder-stuff etc.  

I think that all those can be solved by working on your self image, self esteem and past traumas, it's a long process but fortunately there is so much information in books/web/spiritual and psychological techniques to heal those issues. I'm reading now a book that called "How to heal your emotional self", it's a  nice book with practical exercises that involve working with physical mirror.

7 hours ago, Sine said:

and also a sense of me not being able to achieve the same things/reach the same levels of consciousness as men (a deep limiting belief that I have become more and more aware of recently). 

I can relate to this as well, I think that many of us have those beliefs about ourselves, not just in relation to spirituality but also to achieve anything in life. It's our struggle as women to appreciate ourselves. Men often overestimated themselves while we often underestimated ourselves.

Some people say that we as women have even more spiritual potential than men because various of reasons but the best answer that I can give you is that no matter what our physical body is, we all a consciousness with a growth potential. Your will and intention is enough and there is no limitation to your growth potential. Focus on this and don't compare yourself to men who bragging about their spiritual achievements, take in account that many of them are exaggerating, the same they do with sex, their appearance, skills, and everything in life. Men are mostly exaggerating in order to impress other men.

Everything that men brag about subtract in 50%, it would give you more realistic picture.

 

 

 

 

[Random witch]

55 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

I am not sure I understand what your goal is?

Lol, she wrote it very clear and descriptive. Read again?

 

 

 

[Thought Art]

@Random witch Well, she didn't explain how not identifying with her body would solve any of those issues. I think I mean, I don't understand how your goal of identifying less with the body relates to those things listed.

Seems like maybe its part of it but I am learning the total opposite. That, on some level not to identify with the body... But that most of my trauma and stress is held in the body... Plus the cognitive process.

The body actually holds the key to a lot of those issues, plus if you do therapy, read books related to those issues she is having. There is also a lot of benefit from practicing cessation (my assumption of your goal with your non-identifiying meditation which will have benefits too)

However the quality of your Qi, Organs, meridians, acupressure points, lines of tension, posture, breathing technique all these things tie in to your feeling of safety and well being. Then, maybe doing self image and self love work depending on the root cause of the eating disorder...

Each practice is going to address a single strand in those issues. There is probably a time for cessation and not identifying with the body... and a time for developing a deeper more loving and holistic relationship with it because it holds the key to a lot of your well being and neglecting it more may have the opposite effect than you think. 

But, Maybe I still don't get what she is saying... open minded to my assumptions.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Thought Art

[Random witch]

21 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Random witch Well, she didn't explain how not identifying with her body would solve any of those issues. I think I mean, I don't understand how your goal of identifying less with the body relates to those things listed.

Seems like maybe its part of it but I am learning the total opposite. That, on some level not to identify with the body... But that most of my trauma and stress is held in the body... Plus the cognitive process.

The body actually holds the key to a lot of those issues, plus if you do therapy, read books related to those issues and these other practices she talks about.

Like the Organs, meridians, lines of tension, posture, breathing technique all these things tie in to your feeling of safety and well being. Then, maybe doing self image and self love work...

I think she meant to non-identification with the ego which relates to our physical existence in a physical body, some of our earthy aspects that play a huge role as obstacles to our spiritual growth. She brought examples that explain what she means in "Identifying with the body".

Anyway, it seems to me that your question came from arrogance rather than a real intent to help. I whish I'm wrong.

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Random witch

[Thought Art]

@Random witch Well that was a projection. 

I am just speaking matter of factly from my perspective. Sharing that, the key is in the body and in your self image for a lot of the problems she listed, from my opinion...

I don't see how listing matter of fact things from my research and experience is arrogance. But, It's just text so projection is normal.

I personally, at this moment don't see how that not identifying with the body is a solution to those things she listed entirely. 

I think it's just a strand of a largely puzzle is all I am saying...

I enjoy helping people. But, can't please everyone. Gonna keep growing a thicker skin to other peoples interpretations.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Thought Art

[Kalki Avatar]

Be careful with this one. 

[Sine]

19 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Random witch Well, she didn't explain how not identifying with her body would solve any of those issues. I think I mean, I don't understand how your goal of identifying less with the body relates to those things listed.

Seems like maybe its part of it but I am learning the total opposite. That, on some level not to identify with the body... But that most of my trauma and stress is held in the body... Plus the cognitive process.

The body actually holds the key to a lot of those issues, plus if you do therapy, read books related to those issues she is having. There is also a lot of benefit from practicing cessation (my assumption of your goal with your non-identifiying meditation which will have benefits too)

However the quality of your Qi, Organs, meridians, acupressure points, lines of tension, posture, breathing technique all these things tie in to your feeling of safety and well being. Then, maybe doing self image and self love work depending on the root cause of the eating disorder...

Each practice is going to address a single strand in those issues. There is probably a time for cessation and not identifying with the body... and a time for developing a deeper more loving and holistic relationship with it because it holds the key to a lot of your well being and neglecting it more may have the opposite effect than you think. 

But, Maybe I still don't get what she is saying... open minded to my assumptions.

It's okay, I understand that you don't get it, I can se how it can seem counterintuitive. 

I have done a lot of "shadow work", I have also done a lot of psychedelics and I have lived at an ayahuasca center. I love psychedelics and they are/have been great tools for me.

 In my experience, the Vipassana retreats and daily meditations is also very important, and I like the feeling of how I can reach those divine states sober. I like it because it is then easier for me to integrate it into my normal daily life than it is with psychedelics. 

I have found a lot of growth from using a Vipassana retreat as a sort of integration after multiple ayahuasca ceremonies.

I have felt connected deeply to the whole of the universe and in general I have a sense of everything being one, as you get from psychedelics, but it's clear that I still very much identify with the body in daily life and this annoys me.

It annoys me because the identification as the body and not the whole universe, creates a sense of seperation which is not true. It creates a belief of duality, which is not true.

I don't want to live my daily life untrue. 

I'm convinced that the things i listed has roots in a belief in a of lack of connection. I therefor need to feel more connected. 

8 hours ago, Sine said:

This being for example; abandonment fears, existential loneliness, fear of being hurt in genereal, feelings of being weak, feelings and beliefs about needing protection, eating disorder-stuff etc. and also a sense of me not being able to achieve the same things/reach the same levels of consciousness as men (a deep limiting belief that I have become more and more aware of recently). 

If I am the whole universe concept like abandonment and loneliness would cease to exist.

If I am not the body why should I be afraid of it getting hurt? Why should I be afraid of loosing it. Fear would end.

If I am not the body I would not feel weak

If I am the whole universe I would need no protection, why should I need protection from myself? fear would end.

If I am not the body I would care less about what it felt like/looked like/what other people said or felt about it, because it would not matter as much as it do now.

If I am not the body I am not limited by my sex 

33 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

The body actually holds the key to a lot of those issues

Yes, i agree. However, I am not seeking to escape the body as it seems to me you interpreted. 

I, as I am in my true essence, loves the body and the personality and this figure, I listen to it and I know that it's stories is buried deep in it's physical structure, and I care for this. But still, the truth is that I am not fully this, and I believe I can care even better if i raise above it. Then I will be even less afraid to really look into the traumas that hurts, because I will not identify as them. 

[Sine]

59 minutes ago, Random witch said:

Everything that men brag about subtract in 50%, it would give you more realistic picture.

 

Thank you for reminding me. I have actually read a scientific paper about this. 

[Sine]

3 hours ago, Loving Radiance said:

For a long time it was like awareness was a metal line that went to every body part. It was imagined that a chain lays itself on the parts where awareness currently is to notice sensation.

Yes it is like this! it's difficult to scan the body without having a mental picture of something that is doing it and something that it is being done to! 

[Sine]

8 hours ago, EmptyVase said:

@Sine

Stop believing/assuming that the thoughts that are appearing in your experience are about you. A lot of thoughts carry the implication that they are about 'a you' - but that's just another thought. Try to look for a you, which is outside of the realm of thinking. I, to this day, couldn't find this person which allegedly exists.

To be clear here, I don't know if all identification stems from thought, but it sure plays a huge role. If someone knows better, I'd love to know.

Ahhhh reading this was very helpful. THANK YOU! <3 Yes of course, haha, i totally believe that all the thoughts are about this "me"