Guns make people too hot-headed

[Chives99]

I don't have a problem with using guns to hunt game and  wild animals, but why does the public need dangerous weapons for protection against people. Don't forget other people can carry guns too, not to mention they are also dangerous in which people can be harmed from firearms accidents. Guns give people a lot of power and power can go to your head, if you think you would come off worse from an altercation you wouldn't get involved in an altercation and you could always be stopped by members of the public. That doesn't happen with guns you can kill someone in an instant and noone can stop you as it takes a split second to pull a trigger.

Gun related homicides make up around 3/4 of all homicides in the US and the US has the highest homicide rate in the developed world not lagging far behind south and central American countries with cartel problems. There are a lot of people who feel they have nothing to loose and they want to express themselves before they kill themselves or throw their life away in jail and guns most certainly give people the means to carry this out which can be very alluring when you feel very low.

It is also said by mental health experts in the media that giving people distance between them and the means of suicide drastically reduces suicides, a gun goes off in a second, theirs no pain, no time to calm down, no time to prepare, you can have a certain urge in a split second and then its all over. I feel its the same way with shooting homicides you can have one very bad day and you have the instant means at your disposal to kill a lot of people in a short amount of time, you know the statistics from the media so you know the chance of success to express yourself.

The media sensationalising shootings bombarding the public with constant news footage about every single aspect of the persons life and the incident turns the perpetrator into a nihlistic anti- hero for people that have similar disgruntled feelings about society or certain groups of people, which can be a source of inspiration in that they are making a difference for whatever they believe, so the media certainly doesn't help as well. Whenever their is a shooting in the media authorities are on alert for copy cat killers or other people that have been inspired by constant news footage 

 

I acknowledge we have a knife problem in the UK and even more shockingly its the Gen Z's aged between 12 and 15 that seem to be carrying out most of these attacks that have happened in my country in the past 10 years, but you can't massacre a lot of people with a knife as you can be easily disarmed and killing yourself afterwards with a knife isnt very appealing, which at least provides somewhat of a deterrent; stronger laws to punish carry knifes are what is needed.

[DocWatts]

Gun culture in the US is a dumpster fire of toxic masculinity, unexamined privilege, corporate propaganda by arms manufacturers, and a noxious soup of fear, suspicion, and conspiricism.

So what if anything is a legitimate reason for owning a firearm (outside of hunting)?

As someone who's not enamored with guns and finds the lack of firearm regulations in the US to be batshit insane, some pro gun right advocates on the Left like Vaush have made what I consider to be a convincing argument that it would be an incredibly bad thing if the radicalized far Right are the only ones who manages to arm themselves if and when society ever seriously destabilizes as the world deals with catastrophic climate change over the upcoming century.

Edited December 1, 2021 by DocWatts

[Terell Kirby]

Guns don't make people hot-headed, it's hot headed people who use guns to project their ignorance / lack of wisdom onto others.

As long as idiotic and low consciousness humans exist, we will have guns.

The question is, how do we fix idiocy and low consciousness in humans?

It's surely a close to impossible tasks, hoping that culture can naturally evolve through trial and error to not need guns.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Terell Kirby

[Preety_India]

Pretty much agree with all the points by OP and @DocWatts

[Terell Kirby]

6 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Pretty much agree with all the points by OP and @DocWatts

what about me? lol 

My opinion is unpopular, but it's as close to the truth as I can fathom. Guns are not the problem, it's the folks that yield them.

[Preety_India]

33 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

what about me? lol 

My opinion is unpopular, but it's as close to the truth as I can fathom. Guns are not the problem, it's the folks that yield them.

Nope. Guns are a problem. Guns make people aggressive. If I had a gun I would have ceased to exist on this forum long ago. Not saying that there aren't other ways to off myself, but a gun is too tempting to not put into use, guns are unique weapons, unlike knives and guns tend to motivate an individual to violence, although there is no science to back it up, you can see empirical evidence in the ruthless usage of guns, it's pretty easy to not only access guns but also use them irresponsibly and something about guns that makes their irresponsible use much easier and the grandiosity associated with guns, it's kinda glorified among gun enthusiasts, you never hear something like knife enthusiasts or knife target practice, it's impossible to not get totally messy while using a knife, stabbing is much harder and clumsy, so I definitely think guns contribute big time to violence one way or another and tend to invoke violent feelings or at least encourage such feelings, I'm even going to say that guns are weapons of Evil as they encourage violent feelings even in non violent people, they're psychologically destructive since the presence of a gun is too tempting to resist, it's like a drug or alcohol, if it's not present around then it would be better, if it's somewhere around it tends to produce a temptation to want to use it in a fit of anger, human nature being fragile is very tempted to do so. Just like alcohol and drugs are poison that destroy families, so do guns. Better keep away. 

 

 

[Terell Kirby]

9 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Nope. Guns are a problem. Guns make people aggressive. 

People can be violent without the use of a gun. Just like they can be violent with the use of other weapons.

If someone is addicted to eating food, and goes crazy on cookies, cakes and ice cream .. we don't say that the desserts are the problem. It's the psychology of the person that is the issue.

I'm not pro-gun rights, but these kinds of topics are more complex than just outright banning guns. We have to shift the mindset of humans to where they don't even see the need to own a weapon in the first place.

[Preety_India]

Just now, Terell Kirby said:

People can be violent without the use of a gun. Just like they can be violent with the use of other weapons.

If someone is addicted to eating food, and goes crazy on cookies, cakes and ice cream .. we don't say that the desserts are the problem. It's the psychology of the person that is the issue.

I'm not pro-gun rights, but these kinds of topics are more complex than just outright banning guns. We have to shift the mindset of humans to where they don't even see the need to own a weapon in the first place.

Actually this not true. I'm less addicted to soda if it's not lying around. My addiction is abetted or aided if I have large number of Soda cans lying around and I can't resist 

Human nature is naturally addictive. It's very hard to control. Most people can't. It's best to not have access to addictive things rather than try to change that is natural and hard to control. 

Making addictive things easily accessible is almost a crime, like selling junk food and guns, America is well known for capitalising on addictive stuff by mass production and selling of such things to their public. They encourage the consumerism of addictive things on a mass scale. This is a crime against humanity, only a white collar crime. By this, American companies and manufacturers do make a lot of money, yet this ruthless capitalism that relies on people's addictions is also responsible for huge loss of lives every year in America, that's the price of toxic capitalism that America doesn't see. They continue to encourage the sale of goods that are not good for the general public, whether it's products like Coca Cola, Cigarettes, sleeping pills, guns or addictive junk food. America is largely responsible for introducing addictive things in large quantities to the world and make a business out of it. In a way its a sin because it destroys humanity in slow subtle ways. Big Tobacco is responsible for cigarette addiction in Indonesia. PepsiCo is responsible for the massive epidemic of Coca Cola addiction in Mexico. 

American companies are ruthless at exploitation on a global scale. 

America is also a huge weapons and Mass ammunition exporter. Thus it is actively contributing to violence around the world. 

Guns in America are allowed not simply because of the 2nd amendment in the Constitution, there is much deeper and sinister reason for it, it's political, these guns are necessary for profit, America makes a ton of profit on weapons. That's why they don't stop it's production, there are many factors at play. 

American public needs to take strict action against guns. Guns are responsible for violence. Not saying that violence cannot happen without guns, but guns make it much easier. 

I read about 2 active mass shootings this week in America. They have basically normalized mass shooting and irresponsible use of guns. 

 

 

[Terell Kirby]

5 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Actually this not true. I'm less addicted to soda if it's not lying around. My addiction is abetted or aided if I have large number of Soda cans lying around and I can't resist 

Even if this is the case, to fix the problem would you:

1. Go on a campaign to ban soda worldwide?
2. Deeply investigate your cravings, change your relationship to soda?

Addiction is not about the substance, it's what we are seeking to use it for .. 

Same with guns, they are not the originator of violence .. a person's twisted psychology is. After all, someone has to pull trigger for the gun to do it's job. I advocate focusing on the psychology of the trigger man/woman versus the tool itself.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Terell Kirby

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

Even if this is the case, to fix the problem would you:

1. Go on a campaign to ban soda worldwide?
2. Deeply investigate your cravings, change your relationship to soda?

Addiction is not about the substance, it's what we are seeking to use it for .. 

Same with guns, they are not the originator of violence .. a person's twisted psychology is. After all, someone has to pull trigger for the gun to do it's job. I advocate focusing on the psychology of the trigger man/woman versus the tool itself.

Well I'm not denying that an addictive mindset exists neither am I denying to focus on its resolution. 

Yet, the presence of addictive substances enables or fuels this addiction even further 

We don't give candies to children because if we did, they would eat candies all day. Even if we call ourselves adults, we have the same cravings that children do and it's hard to control these cravings even as an adult. 

Yes if soda is destroying lives and if I was in the position of an American politician I would definitely pass laws and regulations to stop its widespread distribution..

This needs to be done. Addictive things need to be either banned or controlled just like hard drugs.. 

 

[DocWatts]

Again, we have to ask what are the legitimate roles of firearms within a society.

Owning a firearms for hunting, sport shooting, etc. seems like a fairly straightforward and innocuous example.

Personal protection is murkier, because in principle it makes sense but the problem is what's considered necessary for 'personal protection' will get stretched to the point where open carrying an automatic rifle in public will be considered by some as necessarily for 'personal protection'.

Obviously at a certain this becomes quite ludicrous, as collecting arsenals in one's basement is far and away beyond what can reasonably defended as necessary for one's personal safety.

If the role of these weapons is supposed to be for personal protection, than limiting these weapons to one's home/property and not allowing them to be carried in public seems like a reasonable way to facilitate that. If these weapons leave the house, they need to be unloaded and stored in a locked container. Allowing members of the public to open carry is batshit insane.

Concealed carry should be limited to people who can prove that they have a legitimate reason for doing so because of their occupation (for example a private investigator, trained security guard, etc).

Gun suicides present another difficult challenge, but at the very least lengthy waiting periods and much more thorough background checks should be a no-brainer.

Edited December 1, 2021 by DocWatts

[Terell Kirby]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

Well I'm not denying that an addictive mindset exists neither am I denying to focus on its resolution. 

Ok thanks for clarifying.

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

Addictive things need to be either banned or controlled just like hard drugs.. 

I don't think this possible. Notice how folks are still able to attain hard drugs and other illegal substances, hell .. we talk about using psychedelics on the forum all the time lol.

History has shown us this .. we've tried bans on alcohol, porn/prostitution, the 'war on drugs' via Nixon administration. All have failed, humans find ways to get their hands on what they crave the most.

Draconian efforts to ban things is like putting a band-aid over a festering wound. We need to address the wound which mostly comes from issues with mental health. Money and resources need to be poured into resources for psychology issues than into outright banning things we deem bad for our health.

Take Oregon for example, who recently legalized tons of substances to not fill up prisons, and focused on more on recovery programs. We can make the same case of the legalization of weed. Gun control is needed, but we have more foundational things to address as a society.

 

1 minute ago, DocWatts said:

Concealed carry should be limited to people who can prove that they have a legitimate reason for doing so because of their occupation (for example a private investigator, trained security guard, etc).

Gun suicides present another difficult challenge, but at the very least lengthy waiting periods and much more thorough background checks should be a no-brainer.

Agreed.

[Preety_India]

21 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Gun suicides present another difficult challenge, but at the very least lengthy waiting periods and much more thorough background checks should be a no-brainer.

Agreed. 

20 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

Draconian efforts to ban things is like putting a band-aid over a festering wound. We need to address the wound which mostly comes from issues with mental health. Money and resources need to be poured into resources for psychology issues than into outright banning things we deem bad for our health.

Agreed. Outright banning is also a problem. I think a balance between banning and controlling and improving people's psychology is where a solution can be reached, a plausible solution. 

[ZenRising]

5 hours ago, DocWatts said:

Gun culture in the US is a dumpster fire of toxic masculinity, unexamined privilege, corporate propaganda by arms manufacturers, and a noxious soup of fear, suspicion, and conspiricism.

So what if anything is a legitimate reason for owning a firearm (outside of hunting)?

As someone who's not enamored with guns and finds the lack of firearm regulations in the US to be batshit insane, some pro gun right advocates on the Left like Vaush have made what I consider to be a convincing argument that it would be an incredibly bad thing if the radicalized far Right are the only ones who manages to arm themselves if and when society ever seriously destabilizes as the world deals with catastrophic climate change over the upcoming century.

 I couldn't agree more... the arguments generally thrown around about the role of gun ownership in 'protecting democracy', and particularly with regard to the founding fathers' intentions, are wildly misinterpreted and misrepresented by the right wing...

[hoodrow trillson]

I know an avid gun owner who goes to target ranges, collects guns and mods them.  He told me he'd have no problem turning his guns in if it means less people dying, less provocation and less mass shootings.  He said it's a cool hobby but ultimately it IS a weapon to hurt another person or animal.

[Willie]

1. Rittenhouse trial ended not even 2 weeks ago, acquitted on all counts because of self-defense.

2. Brand new gun store and indoor shooting range opened up last week about 4 miles from where I live.

3. A school shooting happened yesterday about 25 miles from where I live.

’MURRICAAAAAAAAA

[sholomar]

I promote the idea of firearm ownership because I don't trust human nature. The more checks and balances we have to keep human nature in check the better. Plus, the number of actual firearm fatalities in the US is rather low compared to say overdoses, abortions, and any other of number causes of death. I usually like to bring up the fact there are 850,000 abortions per year in the US compared to 30,000 non suicide firearm fatalities.

AND on top of it, many of the firearm deaths occur in heavily blue cities that do things like hand out signature bonds, go soft on crime, and in general have policy that increases crime and blames it all on systematic racism and makes the problem worse.

I wouldn't mind having a registration system that can tie guns to owners to better track the flow of weapons though. The problems is serial numbers can be removed, guns can hit the elicit areas and end up being illegally modified.

Edited December 2, 2021 by sholomar

[kray]

@DocWatts Say that again if someone tries breaking into your home

[DocWatts]

53 minutes ago, kray said:

@DocWatts Say that again if someone tries breaking into your home

I think you may have misunderstood or misread one of my previous posts, because it was my assertion that keeping a firearm in your home for the purposes of self defense is a completely legitimate reason to own a gun, and not something I have a problem with.

My reservations were specifically for open and conceal carry (ie bringing a gun with you to a supermarket, restaurant, public venue etc).

Open carrying should be flat out illegal. Conceal carry should be much more restricted than it is now, limited to people with an occupational need to carry a firearm (for example private investigators, security guards, people who transport cash, etc).

Barring these need based exceptions, there should be a requirement that legally owned guns which leave your home must be unloaded and stored in a locked container.

Edited December 2, 2021 by DocWatts

[ZenRising]

2 hours ago, sholomar said:

... the number of actual firearm fatalities in the US is rather low compared to say overdoses, abortions, and any other of number causes of death. I usually like to bring up the fact there are 850,000 abortions per year in the US compared to 30,000 non suicide firearm fatalities.

These are obviously not comparable metrics... maybe try comparing the US with other industrialised liberal democracies?