This forum is lip opend minded forum

[Rilles]

7 minutes ago, itachi uchiha said:

U cannot say something is dogmatic when u know nothing about it

 

 

Then go to Islam with all your heart and leave the rest behind. If you feel its not sufficient in the end then there are always other paths to try. I wish you well!

[LastThursday]

3 hours ago, itachi uchiha said:

But isint the motto of the forum to be open minded and searching truth

The forum doesn't have a motto. But being open minded and being allowed to say whatever you want, is not the same thing. The forum has rules like any other place. If your post gets locked, either find a different way to say what you want, or move on.

 

[omar30]

@Rilles @LastThursday

if you are truly open-minded as you claim take some time and contemplate on the Quran. don't take it literally because you want to prove it wrong. 

Instead of criticizing religions, people who are being dogmatic cannot see different perspectives.

True Islam is Quran being applied what I mean by Islam is the state of full submission to God which is above 200 in Hawkins maps of consciousness in fact if you are below that don't read the Quran because will misunderstand it.

if you were able to contemplate on the Quran you will know that Muhammed (saw) is the most enlightened being who ever existed more than budhha and Jesus. simply because there is no powerful teaching other than the Quran. 

you can say that I am being dogmatic here that's because you haven't understood the Quran yet.

people who don't contemplate the Quran are missing a lot of wisdom.

[Raptorsin7]

25 minutes ago, omar30 said:

if you were able to contemplate on the Quran you will know that Muhammed (saw) is the most enlightened being who ever existed more than budhha and Jesus. simply because there is no powerful teaching other than the Quran.

Have you studied Christianity and Buddhism?

How can you be sure Muhammed was the most enlightened being ever, when you have no direct experience of Buddha or Christ?

What do you think of Salafi Islam? Is there any place on earth that practices the "true" Islam you are describing

[AsEyeAm]

2 hours ago, itachi uchiha said:

U cannot say something is dogmatic when u know nothing about it

 

 

You speak as if knowing a certain kind of "something" is the reason you're being labeled dogmatic. 

The definition of dogmatic is simply believing insistently that what you know and believe is 100% true. Believing or knowing a certain something (Islam, Christianity, Actualized.org etc.) never makes anybody dogmatic just through the sheer knowing or believing of it.

How dogmatic someone is being can be measured by how closed off someone becomes to alternate beliefs systems and other ways of "knowing" in favor of the belief they're 100% sure is true. 

Knowing Islam doesn't make you dogmatic and you won't become dogmatic simply from studying it. It's the HOW you convey and talk about what you know with 100% certainty that has people on this forum labeling you as "dogmatic with Islam".

My personal opinion of the forum here is that people are pretty open minded. At least that's what I "know" and "believe". I'm not going to insist that what I know and believe is 100% true for everyone....even though it is 100%  true for myself as an individual that this forum is open minded. Cause that would be dogmatic of me to try and suck you into that frame. THAT being said, if the forum is going to remain open minded. Then it needs to be closed minded towards dogmatic close-minded people in order to keep the open mindedness from getting closed down. Bit of a paradox ?‍♂️. Hope this helps ?

 

[omar30]

 

3 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Have you studied Christianity and Buddhism?

 

I have studied some Buddhism.

 

5 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

How can you be sure Muhammed was the most enlightened being ever, when you have no direct experience of Buddha or Christ?

because Christ said it. you are funny.

One of the preserved lines of Jesus' gospel, they say is in Mark 1:7, where Jesus supposedly prophesied of Muhammad, "There cometh after Me he that is mightier than I." Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father."

even though I haven't studied Christianity I have proved that Muhammed is more enlightened from Christ himself 

8 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

What do you think of Salafi Islam? Is there any place on earth that practices the "true" Islam you are describing

it is up to you to practice true Islam because it is a state of being not a religious dogma. get religions out of your head and let god guide you that is Islam. 

what I think about Salafi Islam is that it is a distraction there is only one Islam that is described in the Quran. 

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا لَسْتَ مِنْهُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ ۚ إِنَّمَا أَمْرُهُمْ إِلَى اللَّهِ ثُمَّ يُنَبِّئُهُمْ بِمَا كَانُوا يَفْعَلُونَ

As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah. He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.

[Shin]

21 minutes ago, omar30 said:

it is up to you to practice true Islam because it is a state of being not a religious dogma. get religions out of your head and let god guide you that is Islam. 

what I think about Salafi Islam is that it is a distraction there is only one Islam that is described in the Quran. 

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا لَسْتَ مِنْهُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ ۚ إِنَّمَا أَمْرُهُمْ إِلَى اللَّهِ ثُمَّ يُنَبِّئُهُمْ بِمَا كَانُوا يَفْعَلُونَ

As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah. He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.

Pure open mindedness heh

[LastThursday]

1 hour ago, omar30 said:

people who don't contemplate the Quran are missing a lot of wisdom.

Probably.

How was that for open mindedness?

Open mindedness is not blind acceptance nor is it blind rejection. It is about practising non-judgement. But once you have contemplated something, then you should make an informed judgement for yourself. And you should be prepared to change your views on it again in future. Do you think I understand open mindedness?

 

[omar30]

@Shin

19 minutes ago, Shin said:

there is only one Islam that is described in the Quran. 

Yeah because as I said it is a state of being. can a state be other than one?

I am not saying that Islam is not described in other spiritual texts do you understand ???

Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to Allah and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

So set thou thy face steadily and truly to the Faith: (establish) Allah's handiwork according to the pattern on which He has made mankind: no change (let there be) in the work (wrought) by Allah; that is the standard Religion, but most among mankind understand not.

Say: 'We believe in Allah and that which is sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the tribes; to Moses and Jesus and the Prophets from their Lord. We do not differentiate between any of them, and to Him, we are submissive (Muslims). ' (136)

Edited December 1, 2021 by omar30

[omar30]

2 hours ago, LastThursday said:

But being open minded and being allowed to say whatever you want, is not the same thing

how can you understand someone if you don't allow him to say whatever he wants ???

Characteristics of Open-Minded People :

They are curious to hear what others think.

They want to hear what other people have to say.

They believe others have a right to share their beliefs and thoughts.

 

[Shin]

35 minutes ago, omar30 said:

@Shin

Yeah because as I said it is a state of being. can a state be other than one?

I am not saying that Islam is not described in other spiritual texts do you understand ???

Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to Allah and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

So set thou thy face steadily and truly to the Faith: (establish) Allah's handiwork according to the pattern on which He has made mankind: no change (let there be) in the work (wrought) by Allah; that is the standard Religion, but most among mankind understand not.

Say: 'We believe in Allah and that which is sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the tribes; to Moses and Jesus and the Prophets from their Lord. We do not differentiate between any of them, and to Him, we are submissive (Muslims). ' (136)

 

Why the emphasize on the Quran though ?

Like the Bible, it's just so cryptic and misleading, there are more direct and simple teachings nowadays.

There are so many spiritual books that are just objectively better than the Quran, the Bible or even Buddhisms scriptures, so much so that most of them are unknown because there are too many enlightened masters in our time.

[Carl-Richard]

Openmindedness means you're open to new things. It does not mean you stop making distinctions. There are different interpretations of Islam, and some of them are less conducive to self-actualization and spiritual work than others, and some are also less openminded. Are you open to a pluralist, non-literalist interpretation of Islam?

Pluralist and non-literalist religiosity appreciates many different religions and many different interpretations. It's more openminded than absolutist and literalist religiosity. Although the former is more inclusive than the latter, it doesn't exactly include the latter. Therefore, if you present a closeminded view to an openminded space, you shouldn't expect to be included.

[LastThursday]

10 minutes ago, omar30 said:

how can you understand someone if you don't allow him to say whatever he wants ???

Because what s/he says has been said before. And you already understand what is being said and reject it. But the rejection comes from an informed point of view - because you (or collectively) have already open mindedly contemplated it. It isn't blind rejection.

 

[omar30]

11 minutes ago, Shin said:

Like the Bible, it's just so cryptic and misleading, there are more direct and simple teachings nowadays.

There are so many spiritual books that are just objectively better than the Quran, the Bible or even Buddhisms scriptures

you have the choice to choose the spiritual teaching that works best for you.

I am not going to say to you Why the emphasize on the whatever though ? 

you should focus on the content, not the structure. it's all about the interpretation of the spiritual text.

I can tell you What is The Supreme Being or Allah from the Quran ?

The Wisdom of The Supreme Being /Allah in The Quran

The Defenition of The Supreme Being

112: 1 say, "it is The Supreme Being  for anyone,

112: 2 The Supreme Being, the Source of everything.

112: 3 not it generates forms and nor it is generated by any.

112: 4 and Not exist to it an equivalent, anyone."

The Supreme Being is the framework in which our Body, Mind and Self-Awareness exist.

85: 9 To who belongs the dominion in The High Awareness and The Field of Mind. And The Supreme Being over all things is Witness.

The Supreme Being can be reached by a human being through his Consciousness by being in the Coherence and rhythmic vibration with it.

110: 1 When given the aid of The Supreme Being and the opening,

110: 2 And you observe The Vibrations entering into Coherence with The Supreme Being in concentration,

110: 3 Then advance in acceptance to your Consciousness (I AM /The Conscious Being) and ask protection from errors to it. Certainly, it is ever Accepting of returning to it.

Nurturing The Supreme Being in its Coherence will allow you to feel it.

98: 5 And not they were commanded except to Nurture The Supreme Being, sincere to it in The Coherence, in the right state, and to establish the Connection, and to give purification to the self. And that is the correct Coherence.

do you understand now, how can you say There are so many spiritual books that are objectively better than the Quran?

it is all subjective to you.

16 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

There are different interpretations of Islam, and some of them are less conducive to self-actualization and spiritual work than others, and some are also less openminded

that's right 

 

[omar30]

28 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

But the rejection comes from an informed point of view

Leo said in his video about Islam that when you get the heart of Islam you throw the Quran away you don't need to read it. 

what an informed point of view. 

The Quran has many names, each revealing an aspect of its reality. It is al-Qur’a¯n, or “recitation,” which also means “gathering” or “concentration.” It is al-Furqa¯n, or “discernment,” because it provides the criteria for discerning between truth and falsehood, goodness and evil, beauty and ugliness.

It is Umm al-kita¯b, the archetypal book containing the root of all knowledge, and it is al-Huda¯, the guide for the journey of men and women toward God. For Muslims, the Quran is the source of all knowledge both outward and inward, the foundation of the Law, the final guide for ethical behavior, and a net with which the Divine Fisherman ensnares the human soul and brings it back to Unity.

The Quran contains several grand themes.  it deals with the nature of reality, with the Divine Reality and Its Relation to the realm of relativity.

are you sure that what this forum thinks of religions and spiritual texts isn't a blind rejection?

as you guys like to follow Leo like sheeps

[Thought Art]

6 hours ago, itachi uchiha said:

@Tim R yes islam has answer for every aspect of reality.but how do u know it is dogma when u know nothing about the subject.it is u being not open minded

Basically we are saying when you say a single finite system such as Islam is a complete system you are being dogmatic.

Islam might have answers for many areas of life. I actually enjoy what I know about Islam and look forward to learning more over time about it and all the religions and mystical schools.

You may find Islam solves all your problems because its a dogma you find yourself able to enjoy and resonate with. But, it's still dogma which goes against some of the major goals here with actualized.org imo.

Dogmas aren't ideas we want to spread. A lot of us are open minded to learning about Islam. But, we don't enjoy communicating with people who are locked in to a finite system and defending it as the only path or system.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

3 hours ago, omar30 said:

I have studied some Buddhism.

because Christ said it. you are funny.

One of the preserved lines of Jesus' gospel, they say is in Mark 1:7, where Jesus supposedly prophesied of Muhammad, "There cometh after Me he that is mightier than I." Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father."

even though I haven't studied Christianity I have proved that Muhammed is more enlightened from Christ himself 

You didn't really prove anything here.

You appealed to a string of authority (of which you have no direct experience of a buddha, Christ or Muhammad you only assume they existed) and made appeal to authority to a book  which vaguely mentions Jesus saying that some other being coming after him who would be 'mightier'. Jesus didn't like, name Muhammad in that so how do you know he meant him? If he even said that?

How are assumptions and appeals to authority proof of any kind?

Not denying the potential enlightenment of any prophet. Just noting the structural and epistemological assumptions and weaknesses with this type of thinking in my opinion.

Shouldn't you focus on both content and structure to interpret a spiritual text?

The more I study these religions and spiritual schools the less I consider one more powerful than an other. They all contain a thread running through them and address different aspects and nuances of love, God and truth.

 

1 hour ago, omar30 said:

you should focus on the content, not the structure. it's all about the interpretation of the spiritual text.

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Thought Art

[Yarco]

Getting banned seems pretty difficult actually, you have to say something pretty egregious.

I feel like a good proportion of people seem pretty stuck in groupthink though, especially in the Society/Environment/Government/Politics section. Even the open-minded and spiritually advanced have their biases.

[Raptorsin7]

@omar30 Well at least I can have 4 wives under Islam, so that can be something to look forward when the Caliphate rises 

[omar30]

21 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

You appealed to a string of authority (of which you have no direct experience of a buddha, Christ or Muhammad you only assume they existed)

how would you know that I didn't have any direct experience of any prophet? 

do you know something called dreams? you can talk to any prophet if you develop yourself spiritually.

29 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Not denying the potential enlightenment of any prophet. Just noting the structural and epistemological assumptions and weaknesses with this type of thinking in my opinion.

 

the reason I said that the prophet Muhammad (saw) is the most enlightened being is that he predicted everything that is going to happen with so much accuracy that is mind-blowing and you can't deny it and say epistemological assumptions. 

every single sign he said had happened.

here is one of them :

B) New York Is The Evil Of September The 11th, Al Duhaima In Ahadith, Allah Declared This Today; Ibn Masood (ra) said the fitnah of the Duhaima will be so sever and it’s deception so great, that a muslim will not be safe from his own companion, he should be like a statue in his own house to avoid it; Amr ibn Waabisah related from his father from Ibn Mas’ood who said, “I heard the Messenger of Allah say (and he mentioned part of Abu Bakrah’s Hadeeth, mentioned later, “let him betake himself to his sword, crush its blade with a rock”) “All of those killed in it (the fitna) are in the Hellfire.” Waabisah asked, “And when is that, O Ibn Mas’ood?” He said, “Those are the days of much killing, when a man will not be safe from the companion he sits with.” Waabisah said, “And what do you order me to do if I reach that time?” He said, “Restrain your tongue and your hand, and be a fixture from the fixtures of your house.”(Abu Dawwud) The People Of New York Will Not Be Able To Move In The Next Life Without Earning Hell, This Is Their Punishment In The Akhira, It Is What They Forced Onto The World And How They Expected The World To Be, Statues In Their Own House At The Pain Of Death; Imam Nu’aym ibn Hammad, who was one of Imam Bukhari’s teachers, in his work al Fitan narrated from Abu Hurayrah (ra) that he said: “The fourth fitna (September the 11th) is blind and dark, rolling like the ocean. It will not leave a single house of the Arabs or the ‘Ajam without filling it with humiliation and fear. It will go around Sham (Greater Syria), cover ‘Iraq, and batter the Jazirah with its hand and foot. During it, the Ummah will be torn by wars, and the tribulations will become so severe that right will be considered as wrong, and wrong will be considered as right. NO ONE WILL BE ABLE TO VOICE THE LEAST OBJECTION (TO BEING KILLED). Every time they resolve it in one place, it will afflict them with division (EVIL) in another place (the splitting up of societies). During it, a man will be a mu’min (BELIEVER) in the morning and become a kafir (HE WILL LOSE HIS FAITH) by the evening, and no one will be saved from it except one who supplicates like a person drowning in the ocean would supplicate. It will last for twelve years, then it will end when it ends (“IT WILL CLEAR AFTER 18 YEARS”), and then the Euphrates will uncover a mountain of gold. They (the Arabs) will fight over it until seven out of every nine are killed.” Abu Bakrah related from his father, who related that the Messenger of Allah said, “Indeed there will be a tribulation — the one who is lying down during it is better than the one who is seated; the one who is seated is better than the one who is standing; the one who is standing is better than the one who is walking; and the one who is walking is better than the one who is seeking it out.” Abu Bakrah said, “O Messenger of Allah, what do you order me to do [then]?” He said, “Whoever has camels, then let him go to his camels; whoever has sheep, then let him catch up with his sheep; and whoever has land, then let him go to his land. And whoever does not have any of that, then let him betake himself to his sword, crush its blade with a rock, and then save himself as much as he is able to do so.” (Abu Dawud; a similar Hadith is found in Muslim).

for further reading.

https://ghayb.com/syria-and-signs-of-the-hour/

https://ghayb.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/The-Lifespan-Of-Islam-On-Earth.pdf