The unhealthy aspect of Actualized.org

[ZenSwift]

On 11/30/2021 at 8:52 AM, roopepa said:

This is the basic structure of Actualized.org:

1. There is ignorance (you are here)
2. There is correct understanding
3. You have to do XYZ to arrive to correct understanding
4. XYZ = Actualized.org, or "spiritual work" as it is often called here.

Isn't this literally just like everyone's marketing/selling strategy?

[Ry4n]

3 minutes ago, johnlocke18 said:

Is saying we are all god the best you can come up with?

"Nothing but God" would be a superior teaching from the perspective of the human ego.

[Thought Art]

35 minutes ago, ZenSwift said:

Isn't this literally just like everyone's marketing/selling strategy?

It's literally how every school/ course/ coaching works. People create a system of teaching and provide it to people lol.

[roopepa]

7 hours ago, ZenSwift said:

Isn't this literally just like everyone's marketing/selling strategy?

 

6 hours ago, Thought Art said:

It's literally how every school/ course/ coaching works. People create a system of teaching and provide it to people lol.

Teaching implies ignorance to fix. Coaching implies problems to fix. It's like a wheel spinning in it's own mud. These have really nothing to do with truth, only marketing and supply for demand. The best schemes are those which create both the demand and supply themselves.

Being a "spiritual teacher" is a lot like being a "lightworker". Many lightworkers love to talk about dark forces and stuff like that. In other words, they keep creating stuff to work their light on. Wouldn't make much sense to be a lightworker if light was all there is.

[TheAlchemist]

2 hours ago, roopepa said:

 

Teaching implies ignorance to fix. Coaching implies problems to fix. It's like a wheel spinning in it's own mud.

What do you think about a perspective like Jean Kleins? Watch this clip for a few minutes from the timestamp.

"The teacher, he presents never himself as a teacher, because he is love. He is consciousness. So he will never take you as an ignorant, as a student. "

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by TheAlchemist

[Thought Art]

2 hours ago, roopepa said:

Teaching implies ignorance to fix. Coaching implies problems to fix. It's like a wheel spinning in it's own mud. These have really nothing to do with truth, only marketing and supply for demand. The best schemes are those which create both the demand and supply themselves.

Being a "spiritual teacher" is a lot like being a "lightworker". Many lightworkers love to talk about dark forces and stuff like that. In other words, they keep creating stuff to work their light on. Wouldn't make much sense to be a lightworker if light was all there is.

Because for those who resonate with Leos work there is ignorance, problems... There are truth seeking technologies, Truth seeking practices, tools, teachings etc... Teaching does have something to do with the Truth. If you are ignorant and confused how would you find the truth? All Religions or groups had people teaching. People are in school, or working a 9-5. Leo does play a role in society.

Do you think people are just doing fine out there? There are depressed people, abusive people, suicidal people, insane people, dogmatic people, people who don't feel they have a purpose in life.... These people are very grateful for Leo's work... Leo is not just creating an empty marketing funnel to make money. To me that is a gross over simplification. 

Are you contradicting yourself with the light worker comment? Light obviously isn't all there is, and there are obviously problems and ignorance in peoples lives. That IS part of the perfection.

Business is how humans spread ideas, change lives and make the world a better place. I don't really think it deserves the judgement as it's a foundational part of human existence.

Yes, he has to earn money to survive... But, who doesn't? It's actually a good thing because it allows him to put more time into this work while we do other things... division of labour in the social matrix.

I think boiling down teaching and helping others simply to marketing and supply in demand is a confused perspective. 

Also, it should be obvious that Actualized.org is not the truth. But, a finite aspect of it which is attempting to point to itself and guide 'Others' toward it.

But, Actualized.org didn't start out as a spiritual school either... It turned into one over time.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Thought Art

[caspex]

I get what you are pointing to. Therefore I am planning to never fall into the inferiority/superiority trap and also the narrative trap that builds as you build your spiritual vocab.

But I think narratives are necessary until you can throw them away. Lots of thought and contemplation is necessary before you can go for no-mind.

You have a cycle and you need to get to B from A. The first 90% of the path is road, but the last 10% is a river you need to cross. Now you can travel from A to the river on your cycle, throw your cycle away and swim to B. But what you're saying comes off as throwing your cycle at A or midway. But I feel what you're really trying to say is to not try to swim with your cycle!

I think Actualized.org doesn't create that space between ignorance(A) and understanding(B), but rather makes you aware that their is indeed a path between them and a journey to be made. It gives you the cycle and tells you how to ride it. Now it's your job to ride it till the river, then throw it away and swim to B. An animal also doesn't have such narratives, but so does a person at B. Both don't have a cycle but one's clearly at A and another at B.

The metaphor breaks when you realize how the person at B ultimately realizes there is no real distance between A and B. But even to realize that some sort of journey was made.

And yeah I also feel some sort of devotion some people have towards Leo that is of the unhealthy sort. Like "I can never reach as high as Leo!". But what spiritual community doesn't have that towards their teacher?

[roopepa]

This isn't really about Actualized.org. This is about me. I had spirituality backwards. The Actualized - part is just projection.

The name of this thread should be: the issue with spiritual seeking/work.

The issue with seeking/work is that it is fundamentally already based on untruth. From the perspective of direct experience and the law of attraction, it's backwards. Seeking implies something missing, and work implies something to be done, somewhere to get. This is the wheel spinning in mud, getting nowhere.

It's really just about being who you are. No teaching/learning, but expression. No understanding, but meditation.

[Mason Riggle]

@roopepa this is perhaps one of the simplest/most profound truths there is.. nothing to do, no one to do it.  You couldn't 'not be who you are' even if you tried, because this would obviously just be more 'you being who you are', which you are always already effortlessly doing. 

[Moksha]

5 hours ago, roopepa said:

It's really just about being who you are. No teaching/learning, but expression. No understanding, but meditation.

The irony of spirituality is that the more enlightened you become, the less of the apparent you there is. Awakening is the realization that your apparent identity is not who you actually are. It is the first step on the path of enlightenment, which gradually dissolves the bonds of your conditioning, until only a translucent apparent self remains. Consciousness, which is who you actually are, shines more brightly through the apparent self the less bound it is to identity within the dream.

[Nahm]

8 hours ago, roopepa said:

This isn't really about Actualized.org. This is about me. I had spirituality backwards. The Actualized - part is just projection.

The name of this thread should be: the issue with spiritual seeking/work.

The issue with seeking/work is that it is fundamentally already based on untruth. From the perspective of direct experience and the law of attraction, it's backwards. Seeking implies something missing, and work implies something to be done, somewhere to get. This is the wheel spinning in mud, getting nowhere.

It's really just about being who you are. No teaching/learning, but expression. No understanding, but meditation.

That is sheer beauty if I’ve ever seen it. ??