Let’s we all stop calling WOMEN over 18 girls

[At awe]

@LastThursday What about rest of the world??

Should I ask someone’s birthday right after “ Hi” and hold my breath so that they will not be offended by that question?

Edited December 2, 2021 by At awe

[LastThursday]

@At awe no man. Context. Context. Context.

The word "man" or "woman" is only ever used third person. You don't go up to a person you don't know and say "Hey woman! My name's LastThursday, what's yours?" or even worse "Hey girl! My name's LastThursday, what's yours?" (my stomach's churning already).

And in a group situation you should already have enough information to know whether woman or girl, man or boy is acceptable. Nothing wrong with saying "Hey boys let's go out on the town and smash it.", because you know each other and it's ok. Context. If in doubt use man or woman.

[Vivaldo]

12 hours ago, FlyingLotus said:

In a social context you can try saying "ladies" instead of "girls."  Ladies is still feminine but also sophisticated like a woman.  

Yes I will....

I think collectively we shall start changing our perspective around the word "woman". This will eventually lead to clarity amongst folk.

[Mason Riggle]

"Chicks"

[Vivaldo]

Also a quick question for all 

When I  talk to guy I usually refer to him this way "wassup dude?" Or "thanks brotha" 

However I don't how to refer to women in the same way... 

Should I say "okay girl"?  I don't like saying the previous, can someone please render me better alternatives?

Edited December 2, 2021 by Vivaldo

[LastThursday]

Here in the UK "mate" is nearly gaining gender neutrality. I've heard "dude" used with women here, although more so between women. "Thanks Sista" maybe, but only between women also. "Fam" is becoming popular with either sex, but has more of an urban feel. I'm out. Then there's a load if you're very familiar with them: love, darling, chick, lover, princess, gorgeous, and so on.

[Nos7algiK]

I'm just going to use both until the actual individual tells me otherwise. Then their wish will be respected. I've seen this topic talked about quite a few times in my life and it seems from observing what women have to say, it's about a 50/50 slit on if they are offended if someone calls them "girl". Since there doesn't seem to be a majority that would take offense then I have no reason to consciously change my wording, again unless asked. Though, primary women is the term I use.

[At awe]

@LastThursday

The whole thing sounds like a screw that is tightened till it snapped. Sounds like some are trying to carve something in stone. I understand what You are saying but I personally will never obey these kind of cultural norms. In fact if I ever have a discussion with a female who gets offended by the word girl, she becomes instantly my science project. I will dig as deep as it’s  necessary to find out where the trauma is or why it’s offensive to them.

[Preety_India]

18 minutes ago, At awe said:

@LastThursday

The whole thing sounds like a screw that is tightened till it snapped. Sounds like some are trying to carve something in stone. I understand what You are saying but I personally will never obey these kind of cultural norms. In fact if I ever have a discussion with a female who gets offended by the word girl, she becomes instantly my science project. I will dig as deep as it’s  necessary to find out where the trauma is or why it’s offensive to them.

Me too. I'm finding it absurd and ridiculous that someone is offended by something as insignificant as this. Smh

 

[Danioover9000]

@Jennjenn

On 11/30/2021 at 5:05 AM, Jennjenn said:

That’s the post. She’s a WOMAN. Full blown and grown, most likely sexually active, full of wants and desires  WOMAN 

Thank you ??

   I'm confused. Are you asking us all to stop calling women over 18 girls, or are you asking yourself to stop calling women over 18 girls? And what are you going to do when that woman prefers to call herself an over 18 girl?

[LastThursday]

2 hours ago, At awe said:

The whole thing sounds like a screw that is tightened till it snapped. Sounds like some are trying to carve something in stone.

Not really.

Words are powerful. They shape our perceptions. The word "woman" means something different from the word "girl". There's differences in connotations of maturity, age, formality, familiarity, slang, achievement and so on. Both have their contexts and uses. Use the most appropriate word in the context. But, the most neutral term to use for an adult female is "woman" - especially ones you are not familiar with.

Using the word "girl" can give the impression that a woman is immature (and by implication not to be taken seriously or needs protection or mollycoddling or doesn't know her own mind); that you believe her to be more familiar than she actually is or wants to be with you; (as a man) that you have or believe you have some sort of dominance relationship with a woman. None of these senses are empowering for women.

I suspect the discomfort or reluctance to use the word woman, or denial that there's even a problem, is ultimately all to do with how women are perceived. If the two words were really interchangeable, then why would @Jennjenn even have bothered posting?

[Loba]

Call me whatever, I don't care just as long as it isn't a rude slur.

[At awe]

@LastThursday

Sure. But... She doesn’t know if I’m using the word girl to measure her maturity. Well, in a way I am, because if she gets upset about something simple  like that, she’s most likely not my type. Meaning her ability to control her emotions is low and it will cause instability in a relationship. Also, if she starts assuming too much, another red flag. 

I’m constantly questioning the role of words and their power. And I am choosing them probably more carefully than others do. Great tools to analyze and play with reality. In the end  they are just concepts. 

The reason why Jennjenn reacted is that she sees the word as demeaning. But the word is neutral. The reaction is in her. It’s learned behavior. The child that sees a polar bear at the zoo has most likely different feeling than a person that lives on Svalbard and lost half of the family in polar bear attack. 

[At awe]

Leo’s video “ Understanding meaning, purpose and value” 

[LastThursday]

4 hours ago, At awe said:

because if she gets upset about something simple  like that,

It's far from simple.

4 hours ago, At awe said:

She doesn’t know if I’m using the word girl to measure her maturity.

It's not about you.

4 hours ago, At awe said:

But the word is neutral.

It's not.

4 hours ago, At awe said:

The reaction is in her. It’s learned behavior.

I'm sure @Jennjenn is an intelligent woman who knows her own mind. Stop gaslighting and insulting her.

8 hours ago, Loba said:

Call me whatever, I don't care just as long as it isn't a rude slur.

That's your prerogative and I would respect that.

[Preety_India]

I'm usually suspicious of guys who act like white knights. 

And less suspicious of guys who call women girls. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Preety_India

[At awe]

@LastThursday

Everything is simple. Your mind has a capability to make it complicated.

Word is neutral. Unless you let the culture to connect a certain “weight “ to it. 

I’m also sure Jennjenn is intelligent. That’s beside the point. One can be intelligent but can still prefer the reality to be in a certain way. And it hardly ever is. That’s a clue.

The feeling of getting insulted is happening “inside the person” . That’s also a clue. It’s inner work that is needed.  What if there’s a person who protests at every word. Should the whole vocabulary get reworked or could the protester sit down and wonder: What is causing this reaction? What’s triggering me? Is my perception warped? 

My intention is NOT to insult. So there’s no attack here. 

Have you seen some 60 year old women light up when called girls? I have. They smile, adjust their hair etc. No problems.

 

Edit: The line between acceptable and no no words is arbitrary.

Edited December 3, 2021 by At awe

[LastThursday]

@Preety_India fair enough you're entitled to what you feel. But I'm basically arguing from the same position as you:

Using the word "girl" deeply impacts the way we view women (negatively), that's my entire argument.

[Preety_India]

5 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

Using the word "girl" deeply impacts the way we view women (negatively), that's my entire argument.

The word girl is neutral in my opinion. It does not come with an implied connotation. Any connotation is only an assumption and projection on part of the listener. If it were a derogatory term that would have been understandable and reasonable enough. However that's not the case.  

Some things are just blown out of proportion. 

Whenever someone calls me a girl, i take it as an endearing term. Nothing more nothing less. If they used the term woman, that would actually feel alienating. 

Girl seems a bit of a closer bond as compared to the term woman. 

For example if someone said to me, "girl, you really need to get your ass off the couch. " this would seem endearing,  there is a caring attitude reflecting in that statement. However if a guy said, "woman,  you really need to get your ass off the couch, " that would seem a bit commanding, authoritarian, formal and alienating. 

You see what I mean?

 

 

[LastThursday]

49 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Girl seems a bit of a closer bond as compared to the term woman. 

So it's not neutral? Using girl implies some amount of familiarity or closeness - that is one of its connotations. I would argue that using woman is more neutral because it doesn't imply closeness, it has less baggage. When you are referring to strangers, implied closeness should be seen as weird.