Aubrey Marcus @ Covid Vaccines

[Carl-Richard]

On 30.11.2021 at 8:47 AM, Space Lizard said:

Their main concern isn't studying the evidence with an independent mind, but looking at the tribal markers of people involved and immediately labelling anyone of the bad tribe with demeaning language ("anti-vaxxer", "climate denier", etc.). 

I'm going to assume that this is not a metatheoretical observation of human nature, but rather of "those people". I'm going to argue for the former: that when it comes down to the fundamentals of sensemaking, it doesn't help to point the finger.

What you're reacting to is not the naive adherence to authority. It's rather the ramifications of collective responsibility. This can be demonstrated very simply: What do you mean by "studying the evidence with an independent mind"? You mean reading news outlets? Academic papers? Scientific theory? Are these not authorities? Are you the sole source of that information? From whom did you learn how to interpret that information?

The truth is that no one is independent, neither epistemologically nor socially. That is the psychosis of radical individualism. One is always reliant on authority, and this doesn't suddenly change just because you watch one youtube channel over another. What you're really opposed to is recognizing your duty as a member of a society; to see how your individuality is intrinsically tied to the collective, how absolute freedom is not a given, how spreading disease is not a point of pride, and how threatening people's right to survive is not an exercise of individuality. If society is dying, you're dying. No society, no individuality.

Is this me arguing against independent thinking as an ideal? Nope. I'm just saying that in practice, it's not something as straightforward as making a choice. If people could just "reclaim their minds" and instantly become objective, independent, sober dispellers of untruth, would we have any disagreements in the world? Polarization is a fact of life. The ability to worry about weighing petty issues like polarization over human life is a good showcase of the levels of social privilege that is granted by a stable collective.

[Tanz]

The two people had side effects to the vaccine, its not fair to label them as antivaxxers.  They are just some people that share there experience that is all.

Honestly people are making such a big deal about it on either side

[vladorion]

Collective responsibility is not something that is the same for all people.

For one person it means taking the vaccine and for another it is sharing information about the dangers of vaccines.

People who choose not to take the vaccine don't do so because they're irresponsible and don't care for others.

Some people here are really attached to the idea that people who didn't get vaccinated are somehow bad immoral people, lol. 

[Ry4n]

On 11/30/2021 at 10:16 AM, Leo Gura said:

Meh

lazy

[LfcCharlie4]

19 hours ago, Tanz said:

The two people had side effects to the vaccine, its not fair to label them as antivaxxers.  They are just some people that share there experience that is all.

Honestly people are making such a big deal about it on either side

 

+1 

I mean in the UK we have 100,000 Healthcare workers that are losing their jobs as they don't want to take the jab. They've been on the frontline for the best part of 24 months, so surely its important to understand why they won't...

Not just 'Anti-Vaxx' 'granny killer' 

[Carl-Richard]

10 hours ago, vladorion said:

Collective responsibility is not something that is the same for all people.

For one person it means taking the vaccine and for another it is sharing information about the dangers of vaccines.

People who choose not to take the vaccine don't do so because they're irresponsible and don't care for others.

Some people here are really attached to the idea that people who didn't get vaccinated are somehow bad immoral people, lol. 

This is true. People have different ideas about how dangerous the virus is and how safe the vaccines are, and some of these ideas are more paranoid and less well-informed, and some are not. It's still the case that the individualistic meme that is circulating in the West at the moment has a strong absolutist, ideological bent. It's more or less equal to "my right as an individual is to act like an isolated unit separate from the larger society". To then perpetuate this belief and call it collective responsibility, from a system aware view, is quite ridiculous.

But it's true that the individual and the collective is always weighed up against each other. However, it's nevertheless the case that system awareness is lacking in society, and it's impacting the perception of the problem. Society as a collective is a huge system of complex relationships that stretches out horizontally, and this is what the virus is working on. In response to such a problem, an absolutist version of the individualist meme, that has a strong vertical>horizontal bent, quickly becomes problematic.

[Isa]

@Ry4n honestly, that's the best answer he can give, considering the possibility that he has some rules to play as well

[TDLH]

Sorry to have missed all the fun.  I was away from my computer yesterday!

 

I would like to add that “And this is just my perception”, that many people in these forums like to project they are somewhat enlightened, conscious, aware, and love tossing words like; Nothingness, Love, Duality, Somethingness, Compassion etc. at the end of a statement or argument, which seems they are using to double down and add to their identity as an expert in the field of spirituality.  

And yet, these very same people have no problem taking a side in the pro-vax party, or anti-vac party as if they know for a “FACT” that their “Truth” is right, and the other side/party is wrong!

What ever happened to all the podcasts Leo made about critical thinking and having an open receptive mind etc. 

Even the North American Natives understood the pit falls of being engrossed with a belief, an identity, and with emotions.  They understood that if you want to find a truth, you must walk in the opposite direction with an open mind and an open heart, IE walk a mile in another person’s moccasins before accepting a truth!

On another note; what the hell does an opposing point of view have anything to do with “Collective Responsibility”?

A collective society can only be healthy when all POVs are accept as having a seed of truth!

Labelling “ALL” Antivaxxers as being selfish, self-centred, narcissistic, deplorable, mindless bottom feeders is a state of closed Mindedness at it’s best and worst!

I have been experiencing this Earth reality for over sixty years, and believe me when I tell you that your ideas, beliefs, feelings, emotions and the truths that you cling to today will change drastically in twenty years from now!  

For most of you, your POV of today on this topic will be different tomorrow, why?  

Those that continue to do the work and question, discern, discriminate every thought, idea, image, belief, feeling and emotion with an open mind will expand their consciousness and begin to see the truths behind the truths, which are behind more truths!  Your truth today, will not be your truth tomorrow!

Again, I am not for or against the vaccine, and I have played my part!  But I am really starting to question the validity and the mind set the pro-vax (sorry, it's just a label to make a point) that are blindly following the dogma of “Lets just keep on taking booster shots to combat every new Covid variant that shows up”!   Let’s close the borders and lock our doors! 

Really, that’s the answer?  That’s our collective responsibility?   I am not saying it is wrong, but I do question the rabbit hole the pharmaceutical companies are trying to sell us!   And so should You!

Just sharing a few thoughts, ideas and beliefs!

Edited December 1, 2021 by TDLH

[Ry4n]

13 hours ago, Isa said:

@Ry4n honestly, that's the best answer he can give, considering the possibility that he has some rules to play as well

Yep, when it comes to intellectual honesty do as I say not as I do. It’s so obviously biased. 

[sholomar]

On 11/30/2021 at 1:07 AM, herghly said:

I don't see any problem talking about the concerns of the vax. I have two friends that went to the hospital after the vax. One has a preexisting blood clot issue and the other is healthy.

Both have been experiencing heart issues since they've had the vax and have experienced A LOT of hate (like what Aubrey talks about in the podcasts) for coming forward discussing their side effects.

This is my issue with the pro-vaccine crowd is they are rabid so and many of them filled with intolerance and anger for what are legitimate concerns about new vaccine technology. These aren't Covaxin and Sinovac (inactivated virus vaccines) or Novavax (protein subunit technology)  ... who's to say they affect everyone the same. They shouldn't downplay side effects if they are occuring. If anything they should make it easier for other vaccine technology to get passed in all countries. This idea that the FDA has to do their own seperate vaccine trials when other reputable health organizations have found them safe is a little silly. It's said Novavax has very little side effects compared to all the vaccines released in the US.

I'm pro vaccine but also pro-choice. I don't believe in forcing vaccines. Others can do as they wish. Classical liberalism compared to modern progressives who have taken on a more authoritarian demeanor lately. Not good in a country (the US) set up with extra sets of checks and balances to keep tyranny in check, a nation heavy on state's rights with a culture that has a more alpha, less submissive demeanor that doesn't like to bend over to authority figures or the state without a fight.

Edited December 2, 2021 by sholomar

[Hardkill]

@TDLH @sholomar The COVID-19 pandemic is a global emergency. There's no time for any us to debate whether or not we should take the vaccine. The survival of human race is at stake. Millions upon millions of people around the entire world have already died from this lethal virus. Millions upon millions of people around the world have already suffered the loss of their love ones from this deadly virus. Millions upon millions of people around the world who are still alive have already suffered the deeply tragic loss of their love ones from this deadly virus. Millions upon millions of other people throughout the entire planet have already been incredibly traumatized from almost having died from COVID, but were truly lucky enough to have survived it.

As extreme as this may sound to you guys, if you are not pro vaccine mandate, then you are automatically PRO-VIRUS. You like every other republican or conservative moron out there believes that it is okay to just let the virus continue to spread throughout the rest of the country, let alone the entire world. You also seem to be okay with letting the virus mutate into even more deadly and more transmissible kinds of variants. You even prefer having the deadly virus over COVID vaccines. You also want your friends, your family, your relatives, and other close to you to get infected, hospitalized, and die from this virus. No matter what your argument or excuse is this is the reality you have to own.

Furthermore, Leo already talk how there is a time and place for debating, being skeptical, and critically thinking about certain issues. However, he also has mentioned a number of times that there are also moments where there is no time to think or question about doing what you need to do in order for you and your community to survive. Why do you think the military teaches their soldiers to obey and immediately carry out commands without question, especially during times of battle or war? It's because that is a major part of what is absolutely necessary for maximizing the chances of survival for each and everyone own of their troops. It's also vital for the greater good of protecting their country.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Hardkill

[TDLH]

On 12/3/2021 at 0:09 AM, Hardkill said:

if you are not pro vaccine mandate, then you are automatically PRO-VIRUS. You like every other republican or conservative moron out there believes that it is okay to just let the virus continue to spread throughout the rest of the country, let alone the entire world. You also seem to be okay with letting the virus mutate into even more deadly and more transmissible kinds of variants. You even prefer having the deadly virus over COVID vaccines. You also want your friends, your family, your relatives, and other close to you to get infected, hospitalized, and die from this virus. No matter what your argument or excuse is this is the reality you have to own.

Nowhere in my posts did I state that I am against Vaccines!

It is obvious that you are engrossed in your fears, and consumed within your emotions so much so that you most likely never watch the podcast NISTAKE presented. Nor did you really read his intro to the podcast, which stated:

Just found this podcast the other day. First and foremost, this is NOT an anti-vaxx podcast. This is as objective as it gets and we really do need conscious podcasts like this. Please listen to this with an open mind.

Topics include:

- What is COVID exactly

- What is mRNA

- Role of science when it comes to viruses

- Where and how vaccines should be used

- Potential risks of vaccines

- Vaccine injuries

- Media, politics, censorship

The name calling and labelling BS has got to stop!

Do you not realize when you blindly come out swinging a club at a “perceived” opponent, that you are only increasing the gap between peoples POV.  You are creating anger, hate and fear.  You are forcing people to draw an imaginary line in the sand and forcing them to come out swinging!

IF you, or anyone else on this forum wants to productively share your POV about this topic, please have the decency to watch the podcast with an open mind.  Observe how your fears, ingrained beliefs and emotions affect your critical thinking and reasoning skills.  Do the research in all directions, and don’t just cherry pick what you want to believe and discredit everything that doesn’t fit your POV.

Let me say this again! I am not Pro-Vax or Anti-Vax!  I am also Not saying everything in the podcast is right or wrong!  But I will say that the podcast does have several seeds of truth that need to be considered before blindly follow the Government and Big Pharma down their rabbit hole!

Seriously, if you want people on the opposing side to hear you, “You” need to hear them and understand them first with an open mind!  And I am NOT talking about the extremist on the right or left side!

Really people, stop with the finger pointing!  And that goes for both Pro-Vax and Anti-Vax.

On 12/3/2021 at 0:09 AM, Hardkill said:

Why do you think the military teaches their soldiers to obey and immediately carry out commands without question, especially during times of battle or war? It's because that is a major part of what is absolutely necessary for maximizing the chances of survival for each and everyone own of their troops. It's also vital for the greater good of protecting their country.

First of all, not that I wanted to share my history with you, but I served the military for 32 plus years!

Your statement is taken completely out of context. Most soldiers only follow leaders that have proven themselves to genuinely care about the troops and their welfare.  They will only storm the suicidal hill if all other options have been exhausted.  Most modern-day soldiers are well educated and would take offense to your statement.  You have been watching way too many movies!

On 12/3/2021 at 0:09 AM, Hardkill said:

Leo already talk how there is a time and place for debating, being skeptical, and critically thinking about certain issues. However, he also has mentioned a number of times that there are also moments where there is no time to think or question about doing what you need to do in order for you and your community to survive.

We have time, you just refuse to see that.  Please don’t let your fears and anxiety get the best of you!

You may be getting caught up in the Media drama.  If we are going to survive this Pandemic (Which we will, and yes, there will be casualties and wounded.) we will need to exhaust all options, and not just blindly rely on Big Pharma’s and the Governments “ONLY ADVISE", which is, "keep pumping the vaccines into everyone’s arm until this is over"! 

Keep pumping the vaccines into the sheep, until the sheep come home! 

Seriously, do you really want to be dumb-down to the mental capacity of sheep that blindly follow, believe, and do whatever Big Pharma and the Government tells "You" to do without questioning their integrity, agenda, rules and laws they dictate to the “Masses”?  Without any accountability or responsibility?  

Do you really want to give your “Power” away and Worship the New "God" called “Big Pharma”? 

Just asking!

Just sharing a few thoughts, ideas and beliefs!

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by TDLH

[vladorion]

Quote

You like every other republican or conservative moron out there believes that it is okay to just let the virus continue to spread throughout the rest of the country, let alone the entire world. You also seem to be okay with letting the virus mutate into even more deadly and more transmissible kinds of variants.

The virus has already spread, there is nothing that can be done about it.

Most people by now have already had the virus. For example, 92% of people in the UK have antibodies.

By getting vaccinated you're not protecting anyone but yourself (if you're in the risk group). Vaccines lower mortality risks for those who take them; they don't prevent one from getting sick or spreading the virus.

There is no herd immunity from this.

P.S. Your post doesn't sound ideological at all.