Joe Rogan IG Post, a Mind Infected by Ideology

[Epikur]

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

@Raptorsin7 This is the crux of the issue: the environment is the bedrock of the individual. The environment is not equivalent to personal responsibility – it is what makes personal responsibility possible. This is basic ecology, sociology, psychology. It does not suffice to hand-wave it away by saying "oh yes, that's one part of the equation too." When you're pointing to the real-life examples of the successes of personal responsibility, you're pointing to places of structural privilege. It's not a coincidence.

 

If that is the case, what is it that the left doesn't understand about personal responsibility? People who condone looting are fringe radicals high on schadenfreude.

Didn't appear that they are so fringe remember:
 

Ramen Guy schools CNN anchor Chris Cuomo about peaceful protests and the constitution

[Epikur]

8 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

"700 years setback" is an unclear statement. If you mean that society lost 700 years of development, that would mean you would have to literally turn the clock back 700 years. That is obviously not the case, because not everything from the Roman Empire was lost. Technological innovation did not stop, and neither did philosophical thought. Single examples do not give a comprehensive picture, because reality is a complex system. That is also why development is non-linear, because apparent setbacks are only partial, never total.

It is not that unclear. The details can be read in history books it is not very controversial.
Progress was more the exception than the rule when you look let us say the last 50k years of history.
https://www.britannica.com/list/6-lost-civilizations

 

[Dryas]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CW7ilW1AYor/

Is it a joke? It doesn’t really matter 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Dryas

[Carl-Richard]

9 hours ago, Epikur said:

It is not that unclear. The details can be read in history books it is not very controversial.
Progress was more the exception than the rule when you look let us say the last 50k years of history.
https://www.britannica.com/list/6-lost-civilizations

I deliberately put "development" in italics, because development is not progress. Progress is a more loaded term. Development simply means a trajectory of "coming to being" (ontogenesis). The development of reality as a whole is the trajectory from simple to complex, and humanity follows the same pattern. What can be defined as a local regression is always a part of a larger scale of development. The death of one cell is a part of the larger evolution of an organism or a species. While one organism dies, and a new one is born. This is the cyclical nature of development. The fall of the Roman empire was important for the development of humanity and provided important lessons for future generations.

[Rilles]

6 hours ago, Dryas said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CW7ilW1AYor/

Is it a joke? It doesn’t really matter 

LMAO! 

[Leo Gura]

The year is 2034, Trump is still running for president, it's still illegal to smoke DMT, conservatives are still crying about cancel culture for using the N-word, Incels are now having sex in the Metaverse with anime chicks, Joe Rogan has become Pope of Metaverse.

[Fleetinglife]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The year is 2034, Trump is still running for president, it's still illegal to smoke DMT, conservatives are still crying about cancel culture for using the N-word, Incels are now having sex in the Metaverse with anime chicks with dicks, Joe Rogan has become Pope of Metaverse.

Quote

DEUS EX: (Man?) Peoplekind Divided

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Fleetinglife

[Danioover9000]

@Carl-Richard

18 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

@Raptorsin7 This is the crux of the issue: the environment is the bedrock of the individual. The environment is not equivalent to personal responsibility – it is what makes personal responsibility possible. This is basic ecology, sociology, psychology. It does not suffice to hand-wave it away by saying "oh yes, that's one part of the equation too." When you're pointing to the real-life examples of the successes of personal responsibility, you're pointing to places of structural privilege. It's not a coincidence.

 

If that is the case, what is it that the left doesn't understand about personal responsibility? People who condone looting are fringe radicals high on schadenfreude.

   Would you agree with this example of personal and collective responsibility?

   Imagine being in a restaurant and you ordered french soup. The waitor/waitress brings the soup, and you see that the french soup not only contains the bread in the bottom of the soup, the onions, the bits of meat and spices, but the bowl holding the french soup is a hollowed out, baked big bread as well. In this example, are you saying to those who over value personal responsibility (the french soup) to also consider eating the bread bowl (value collective responsibility and environment) as well, and to appreciate that the bread being the largest responsibility is holding together different possibilities of personal responsibilities?

[Hardkill]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The year is 2034, Trump is still running for president, it's still illegal to smoke DMT, conservatives are still crying about cancel culture for using the N-word, Incels are now having sex in the Metaverse with anime chicks, Joe Rogan has become Pope of Metaverse.

Trump hopefully will have passed away by then. Lol

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Carl-Richard

   Would you agree with this example of personal and collective responsibility?

   Imagine being in a restaurant and you ordered french soup. The waitor/waitress brings the soup, and you see that the french soup not only contains the bread in the bottom of the soup, the onions, the bits of meat and spices, but the bowl holding the french soup is a hollowed out, baked big bread as well. In this example, are you saying to those who over value personal responsibility (the french soup) to also consider eating the bread bowl (value collective responsibility and environment) as well, and to appreciate that the bread being the largest responsibility is holding together different possibilities of personal responsibilities?

Personal responsibility is the soup, and structural violence is a leaky spoon.

[hoodrow trillson]

Makes me feel safe that Joe Rogan--the zenith of masculinity--is here to protect straight men from all the evils in the world like referring to someone as she or something.

Edited December 2, 2021 by hoodrow trillson

[Danioover9000]

@Carl-Richard

40 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Personal responsibility is the soup, and structural violence is a leaky spoon.

   Alright then, you can keep your leaky spoon, and I'll have the whole soup then 

[Yog]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The year is 2034, Trump is still running for president, it's still illegal to smoke DMT, conservatives are still crying about cancel culture for using the N-word, Incels are now having sex in the Metaverse with anime chicks, Joe Rogan has become Pope of Metaverse.

Mind boggling. Dystopia 2.0. The future is same as the present (not worse).

[Raptorsin7]

On 12/1/2021 at 2:30 PM, Carl-Richard said:

@Raptorsin7 This is the crux of the issue: the environment is the bedrock of the individual. The environment is not equivalent to personal responsibility – it is what makes personal responsibility possible. This is basic ecology, sociology, psychology. It does not suffice to hand-wave it away by saying "oh yes, that's one part of the equation too." When you're pointing to the real-life examples of the successes of personal responsibility, you're pointing to places of structural privilege. It's not a coincidence.

 

I am not denying that the environment is essential to personal responsibility. If the air was poisonous to breathe and our water all turned to poison then yes the conversation about personal responsibility would be misguided.

But are you saying that is the case for poor communities, like black america? Is the government actively committing genocide against them? Are mobs of white people going around hunting innocent black people walking in the streets?

The better question is what role do black people play in shaping their own environments?

When 80% of children are born to 18% of the men leading to an epidemic of single motherhood, how are you going point to the environment without a serious analysis of individual decision making?

On 12/1/2021 at 2:30 PM, Carl-Richard said:

If that is the case, what is it that the left doesn't understand about personal responsibility? People who condone looting are fringe radicals high on schadenfreude.

The left won't even begin to discuss the relationship between choice, values, and individual change in improving society and poor communities.

I already asked many times, show me where on the left there is a serious discussion of black single motherhood and welfare, or black on black violence? Or how the cultural values shape the outcomes?

These topics get shouted down because people assume it will be used as fuel for the right, so they avoid the topic all together. 

Politicians, political organizers etc have more power and control when they can blame external structures like white supremacy, or blame republicans. But actually addressing the issues and doing boots on the ground work to change individuals is not something that these types have any expertise or interest in

[Rilles]

Lmao, you have been discussing all week, you could have read a whole book and learned something during that time Raptor.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6792458-the-new-jim-crow

Maybe something for you.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Rilles

[Raptorsin7]

1 minute ago, Rilles said:

Lmao, you have been discussing all week, you could have read a whole book and learned something during that time Raptor.

Lol. I have learned from the conversation. Hopefully people following have learned something too.

There is very little effort required for these kinds of conversations

Edited December 3, 2021 by Raptorsin7

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I am not denying that the environment is essential to personal responsibility. If the air was poisonous to breathe and our water all turned to poison then yes the conversation about personal responsibility would be misguided.

But are you saying that is the case for poor communities, like black america? Is the government actively committing genocide against them? Are mobs of white people going around hunting innocent black people walking in the streets?

It doesn't matter how much you hyperbolize and handwave it. The left, as in academia and public policy, is very interested in these concerns. Take up a book on community psychology or watch a lecture. It's not just happening within the framing of "we need a conversation about bootstrapping" and the insistance of downplaying the primacy of systemic issues. That is what is not happening the left. If you want to shift the conversation to "but the online left doesn't care", tell me, what has online political discourse ever achieved? It's a cesspool of contrarianism. Of course nuance is lost.

[Raptorsin7]

10 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It doesn't matter how much you hyperbolize and handwave it. The left, as in academia and public policy, is very interested in these concerns. Take up a book on community psychology or watch a lecture. It's not just happening within the framing of "we need a conversation about bootstrapping" and the insistance of downplaying the primacy of systemic issues. That is what is not happening the left. If you want to shift the conversation to "but the online left doesn't care", tell me, what did the online left ever do? It's a cesspool of contrarianism. Of course nuance is lost.

My issue is  with modern leftists, Sam Seder, Michael Brooks, Vaush etc. I can't say i'm familiar with academic leftists but given what I saw at my time at higher education in Canada, I am not confident there is a lot of wisdom coming from academic leftists.

I am for downplaying the primacy of systemic issues, so attention can be placed in areas where you will see actual results. 

Whatever is currently being done by politicians and organizers is clearly not very effective. Why is it the case that black people have seen improvements in the structural and systemic aspects of discriminations, and yet the actual outcomes are dramatically worse off than before the civil rights movements. 

In my view political thought is dominated by morons who lack wisdom and true intelligence, but I doubt that will change anytime soon  

Edited December 3, 2021 by Raptorsin7

[Carl-Richard]

16 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

My issue is  with modern leftists, Sam Seder, Michael Brooks, Vaush etc. I can't say i'm familiar with academic leftists but given what I saw at my time at higher education in Canada, I am not confident there is a lot of wisdom coming from academic leftists.

Just being in higher education doesn't exactly mean you'll soak up all the intricacies of unrelated faculties by osmosis

 

16 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I am for downplaying the primacy of systemic issues, so attention can be placed in areas where you will see actual results.

Great. Bring your buddies, create some policy suggestions, run for office, or get a research grant, establish an NGO and work directly with marginalized communities or change public opinion. The world is your oyster ...oh wait, these are systemic interventions (Doh!)

[Raptorsin7]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Great. Bring your buddies, create some policy suggestions, run for office, or get a research grant, establish an NGO and work directly with marginalized communities or change public opinion. The world is your oyster ...oh wait, these are systemic interventions (Doh!)

There is a difference between a governmental plan to solve an issue that targets personal responsibility and individual decision making, and a collectivist meme that reinforces victimhood mentalities and absolves people of personal responsibility and empowerment like you see with modern leftist thought.

I would say if you really want to a make change innovate and invent something and use the excess resources to fund change without overhead and bureaucracy. That's the potential power of individual empowerment. And I don't have to blame white supremacy or the British for any of it!