God Is Blind?

[Will Bigger]

I ask this because it suddenly occurred to me that I remember nothing of my deep sleep. When I am in the state of pure consciousness called sleep, though it is infinitely peaceful, I return and there is no memory: not even a passing memory as would be expected of a dream.

So I ask, is pure consciousness blind to itself; does it need The Witness in the form of the organism to observe itself? In other words, does nonduality need duality to know itself?

Edited December 27, 2016 by Will Bigger

[Prabhaker]

@Will Bigger

The moment samadhi has happened, you are not there to remember it. Samadhi never becomes a part of memory because the one who was is no more. As they say in zen, ”The old man is no more and the new one has come...” and these two have never met, so there is no possibility of there being any memory. The old has gone and the new has come, and there has been no meeting between the two, because the new can come only when the old has gone.

Only when somebody is not there, is absent, does he reach. Somebody moves into meditation, somebody comes out of meditation – that is the feeling of the soul. But nobody reaches samadhi, because when samadhi is reached, nobody is there.

34 minutes ago, Will Bigger said:

I return and there is no memory.

You go out – you leave the body, the mind, the ego – and you come back again. It is not the point of no return; there is every possibility of coming back. You come back because the whole mechanism is still there waiting for you. You come back and again the whole thing begins to work. All that is left then is the memory of the gap. But that gap calls you back again and again.

It is not samadhi because there is still a possibility of coming back. The ego did not die, you only jumped away from it temporarily. For a moment you were out of its grip, but now you are back again.

[cetus]

1 hour ago, Will Bigger said:

I ask this because it suddenly occurred to me that I remember nothing of my deep sleep. When I am in the state of pure consciousness called sleep, though it is infinitely peaceful, I return and there is no memory: not even a passing memory as would be expected of a dream.

So I ask, is pure consciousness blind to itself; does it need The Witness in the form of the organism to observe itself? In other words, does nonduality need duality to know itself?

@Will Bigger Something tells me yes. Consciousness is blind to itself. 

Pure consciousness or God has no self awareness. It's perfection is that it knows not of itself and yet it gives everything. Only through the eyes of imperfection can God be realized. That is the magic of it all. The great dance. Everything is happening, and at the same time, nothing is happening at all.

[Bob84]

@Will Bigger The eye can never see itself. And it doesn't give a shit either

[WaveInTheOcean]

9 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

@Will Bigger

The moment samadhi has happened, you are not there to remember it. Samadhi never becomes a part of memory because the one who was is no more. As they say in zen, ”The old man is no more and the new one has come...” and these two have never met, so there is no possibility of there being any memory. The old has gone and the new has come, and there has been no meeting between the two, because the new can come only when the old has gone.

Only when somebody is not there, is absent, does he reach. Somebody moves into meditation, somebody comes out of meditation – that is the feeling of the soul. But nobody reaches samadhi, because when samadhi is reached, nobody is there.

You go out – you leave the body, the mind, the ego – and you come back again. It is not the point of no return; there is every possibility of coming back. You come back because the whole mechanism is still there waiting for you. You come back and again the whole thing begins to work. All that is left then is the memory of the gap. But that gap calls you back again and again.

It is not samadhi because there is still a possibility of coming back. The ego did not die, you only jumped away from it temporarily. For a moment you were out of its grip, but now you are back again.

Be careful listenting to what Prab says here. It's all symbolism.

I like to speak of these matters more directly. While "more directly" may be more conrecte than the symbolic wording that Prab uses, it is still all symbolism though.. It's all concepts... Words can never replace a direct experience.

Enlightenment of the mind can only happen if there is a very high degree of awareness present within the mind the moment the no-mind-non-experience (ego death) happens.

In fact no-mind-non-experience happens for everyone daily: going to sleep and waking up. The thing is just that the brain is wired to minimize the awareness of the mind to zero just before sleep happens. This idea naturally explain why none can remember the experience of falling asleep.

When mind death happens when high awareness is present there is a mind seeing the kill (just before the no-mind-non-experience) and there is a mind seeing the rebirth (just after the no-mind-non-experience). The mind naturally gains a dramatic shift in perspective after having witnessed its own death and rebirth. The mind can thus directly see that it comes out of nothing. When a mind has fully realized (= seen) that it comes out of nothing, a mind naturally becomes enlightened... A mind thus sees for itself that it itself is just a temporary gateway between consciousness and happenings (experience). That consciousness and happenings will never cease to exist because it has always been and will never not be.

A mind thus sees its own true nature as a gateway, and thus it also sees that such a gateway can be shut down anytime ... -- eventually one will be permanently shut down (physical death happens for everyone) -- just as one can be opened at anytime (new creatures with complex nervous systems are being born every second -- if not on this little insignificant sphere of dirt and water we call Earth then on some other planet of the 500+ trillions of stars in the observable universe (500,000,000,000,000+).

This conclusion can one rationally come to just by using pure logic (combined with radical open-mindedness).
Of course logic + direct experience -> direct experience alone -> logic alone.

So is God/consciousness blind to itself? The answer is both yes and no.
If you think about it long enough, you'll see that it can in no possible way be either "yes" or "no" alone.

Yes, pure empty consciousness needs a pretty developed mind (=a highly developed organism, we currently only know one= humans) to see its own nature.

The world/reality you find yourself in is fundamentally dualistic. If anyone says it's non-dualistic they have no deep understanding of reality.

Non-dualism is simply the pure (clear vision) study of reality (= dualism) from an imaginary "outside" perspective of reality.

To fully understand yourself, you have to first fully lose yourself.
To become fully sane, you have to first become fully insane.
To fully understand the dualistic nature of the world, you need to have experienced seeing yourself leave the world and come back again ... You leave the world and come back again everyday (sleeping and waking up)... Problem is : No awareness present... Combine awareness and departure and you will get it.

Edited December 27, 2016 by WaveInTheOcean

[Will Bigger]

@Prabhaker @WaveInTheOcean

I think what we can gather is that there is a kind of cycling effect. At one moment, you are consciousness (nonduality) and at another you are conscious (duality) as an organism. And the goal of spiritual practice is to be both together. This goes beyond just enlightenment, which is simply a realization of your true nature. 

I like when Sadhguru spoke of Kriya yoga, he made it clear that the path of Kriya is for much more than just enlightenment.

[key]

20 hours ago, Will Bigger said:

So I ask, is pure consciousness blind to itself

"Pure" consciousness is always, the ordinary and extraordinary, which you might define as buttering your bread, tying your shoelaces, reading this post, having an experience of sustained bliss or meditation high, reading a book or jumping into a pool, anything that happens to you or anyone else is perfect for the fact it's appeared

13 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

Enlightenment of the mind can only happen if there is a very high degree of awareness

First what is enlightenment? The realisation of your nature, which some claim as everything, or Consciousness, God, Infinity, whatever symbol you wish to label it, although the moment we attempt to label it we reduce it, for words are bound in the apperance of themselves, so I honestly don't know what my nature or anybody else's is, for I see "nature" as another symbol,

Yet how can our claim we present to reality as eternal, whole, perfect & infinite, also be claimed as having levels or a hierarchy to it? High awareness vs low awareness, duality vs non-duality, Higher self vs Lower self, aware vs unaware, blind vs seen, we reference these terms in relation to ourselves, but if the very nature of our identity is an illusion, or a misconception, anything we term in realition to ourselves also falls under the category of illusion or misconception, for again, language and thoughts are bound in the appearance of themselves, while at the same time "bound" is yet another word, 

Yet the apperance of all, including all thoughts, all experiences, ect.. is nothing but the appearance of itself.

I don't really know, confused myself writing this honestly, so it's just a thought  

Edited December 28, 2016 by key

[cetus]

@Will Bigger Tao Te Ching     It isn't aware of it's greatness therefore it is truly great

[AlwaysBeNice]

Afaik the experience of Samadhi is absolute awareness, not no awareness. There is no person there as an artificial construct, but you are very much present. 

Also there have been many reports of yogi's being aware of their deep sleep. 

Also, Martin Ball speaks how some people completely do not remember their 5-MeO breakthrough, I belief he indicated that it was because it was too much of a shift, whereas other remember it very well, it seems to be a matter of consciousness evolution.

[Telepresent]

I haven't read through the other replies.  I just wanted to say: return to "I".  Contemplate "I".  What is the difference between "I" asleep (the subject of the dream) and "I" awake (the rememberer of the dream)?

[Telepresent]

On 27/12/2016 at 9:52 AM, Will Bigger said:

When I am in the state of pure consciousness called sleep, though it is infinitely peaceful, I return and there is no memory:

Will, sorry, I also have to ask: is this your language or someone else's?  Has someone else taught you to talk about 'pure consiousness' like this?  I ask because it doesn't seem like a very natural way of expressing yourself