I am a virgin loser and here's my questions on Leo's "How to get laid" series

[bloomer]

Virgin loser here, 21 year old guy, never been on a date, never had a girl friend, never kissed a girl, never held a girls hand, never held/hugged a girl, never had a girl show me any sort of affection. Listened to Part 1 and Part 2. About to embark on the long journey of listening to the third video now. So I have specific questions about some of the ideas in the videos. I know there's the mega discussion thread on this topic. I will post there as well but I don't want to completely derail the thread with my questions and tangents which is why I've made a separate topic here. Hope that's okay. So I have made a bunch of notes and appreciate Leo and you all talk about this topic because I have found the videos insightful. Warning this is going to be a long thread. 

So Leo makes a list of reasons as to why you aren't getting laid.

1. Not being social enough

How many girls do I meet and talk to a week? Fuck all. I know I need to change my lifestyle. I'm living a very anti-social life. Leo mentions that the pain of being anti-social needs to become more painful than the pain of being social to get me out of my house and into the real world. I think for so long since youth pretty much, never really had friends in high school, I've been alone and struggle to talk with people. I don't know how to go from 0 and to just throw myself out into the world with no experience and no skills.

So how do I get out and meet women and girls without being seen as a total creepy weirdo?

2. You're not going out

Again, same thing pretty much. I spend all day at home. I need to get the fuck out the house and try to talk to people but I'm completely socially retarded.

3. Not approaching

"Even if you come into contact with women when going out you're not approaching."

Yeah I wouldn't even know how to go about that. I've never approached a girl and never really even been around women. The idea of going up to some girl and starting some conversation without me being expressing interest in her is alien enough. 

4. No flirting skills

"Not communicating with women in a romantic flirty way but as a logical friendly business man sort of way." I'm a very logically minded guy. My parents and others have worried that I might be on the spectrum but I don't want to know honestly because if I am I might just give up hope. 

5. Not sure what attracts women

Here's Leos list of what does and doesn't attract women.

Women are attracted to "masculine energy". Strength, confidence, charisma, humour, cocky, funny, wit, fun, adventurous , playfulness and even drama. Take a woman through an emotional rollercoaster with lots of ups and downs. Women like strong personalities and men with passion. A man who expresses himself in a unpremeditated sort of way and exhibits a strong personality authentically. Regardless of the personality. High or low energy, doesn't matter. Just express your personality strongly and assertively and don't hold back. Never be vanilla. Women want deep intimacy. Women love balls, edgy and boldness. Women are obsessed and very attracted to celebrity, social approval, high status. Attracted to guys who have a life purpose more important than them. Moment you put her above your mission you lose. Women love strong eye contact. Women like guys who are fit, well dressed, well-groomed and smell nice.

The number one thing that propels women is neediness and desperation. Don't put her on a pedestal and treating her like a qween. Don't be too nice to her. Fear, insecurity, lack of balls and shyness. Women hate men who are immediately sexually vulgar. Fake machismo or strength, much better admitting a weakness than faking a strength. Women are good bullshit detectors. Don't try to be gamey or fake, it's unnatural. Be authentic. Don't brag about yourself, never brag about yourself. It makes it seem like you're trying to impress. Do the opposite (not serious self-deprecation that makes you seem like a loser), make it look like you don't give a fuck. Women don't like boring logical talk or serious guys. Don't be business like with girls you're trying to date. Never force a woman to lead, never ask her where to go or for her to lead. Don’t be creepy ever. Game is all about being smooth and not creepy. Don't put women in a position where she feels awkward.

So of the positives to attract women, I guess I'm not really vanilla maybe??? I hope I'd be capable of deep intimacy whatever that means but I doubt it. I'm pretty fit and do a lot of running and lifting but it hasn't helped me. I do dress well and groom.

As for the negatives probably shyness and insecurity. I'm not a sexually obsessed or vulgar person. I don't try to bullshit people so that's a good thing. Nor do I brag. But I definitely am the logically spergy kind of guy. 100% if I was to approach a woman I'd end up putting her and myself in a position where we both feel awkward which is why I avoid doing it because I don't want to creep out or make someone else feel awkward. That and I'm a pussy lol.

I know you might not care about me personally and my circumstances but I thought if anyone can offer tailored advice based on my traits that could be helpful that would be appreciated. Which is why I bothered saying them.

6. Insecurity complex

"Have a victim mindset and think you're ugly etc… That gets communicated to women. If you have this mindset you can't escape. You think, what's the point of even trying and approaching women when I already know they're going to reject me? It's a self-fulfilling you process. Or another problem is thinking that you're not good enough and put women on a pedestal. In part you're not entitled enough. You think you don't deserve attractive women."

"I'm too fat, I'm too short, I'm too ugly yadda yadda. Is it because you're short that you're getting laid, or the fact that you're insecure in the fact that you're short and that prevents you. How would you know the difference?"

I wouldn't know the difference. But here's where I do go into the incel lookism stuff. In the video Leo mentions that on dating apps it's 90% about looks. That looks are how women judge you and if you don't have the looks you're going to get rejected. Well tinder and dating apps are the real world. Most people today meet of tinder and similar dating apps like bumble etc... So the fact that they have that preference for looks on these apps, why doesn't that also translate into real life? Doesn't that just reveal what women want when they can have it?

7. Not willing to work on yourself

"On the other hand you have an entitlement mentality that you shouldn't have to change to get am attractive women. You believe hot women should like you naturally. The slob, immature boy that you are. Rather than working on yourself."

At this point I don't really think I or anyone else for that matter deserves anything. Life isn't fair, some people have rich love lives and get everything, several women a day, and are born handsome, tall, good looking and grow up without constant adulation to become charismatic and self assured. Others are born ugly, short, bad looking and grow up with constant rejection and hostility and become isolated and self loathing stuck with masturbation and a computer screen. 

That aside I do work on myself, I run three miles a day. I work out several times a week. I read a lot, I play guitar. I'm starting to meditate. So what? I don't think women are after some guy whose this self improver. Plenty of women lust after immature boys or even scumbags because they have what I don't. 

I don't believe hot women should like me for me. I'm just embittered by the fact that no women like me and I don't think I'm a bad guy. When their are plenty of others guys who have far more than I ever will and didn't have to put any effort into getting it.

8. Paralysis analysis

"Stuck getting caught in what to do rather than doing anything. Don't think it's too late to start."

The fact that I'm not social and not good with women isn't going to solve itself. I need to put in more work obviously. I know that. Writing all this has just made me realize that I'm in paralysis. But I'd rather putting into words what's in my own head and have you guys judge it than leave them there hidden away doing damage without me knowing about them. 

 

So in the end Leo gives five steps to getting laid. Well he said he gave five but I think he got lost on a rant and only really gave three. Unless I wasn't paying attention.

1. Envision yourself getting laid and getting cute girls

2. Study the principles of attraction

3. Go out and socialise every week

At this point I don't even know what getting affection or girls would look like so it's a bit hard to imagine. I guess I'm studying the principles of attraction now? Again I don't really know how to get out and socialise.

One thing that I did find tremendously helpful and made me feel better about myself was though the question. 

"I'm too fat, I'm too short, I'm too ugly yadda yadda. Is it because you're short that you're getting laid, or the fact that you're insecure in the fact that you're short and that prevents you. How would you know the difference?"

Maybe that is true. Also the simple fact that the number one problem is you're not being social enough and that much is clearly true.

I'll make another post on the second video in a minute. If anyone has any advice from what I've wrote here it would be appreciated. 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

1) Google the best bars/clubs in your city.

2) Make a commitment to visit them every Fri/Sat at least.

3) Approach people and talk.

- - - - -

No girls likes you because you haven't even presented yourself to a girl. How can she like you when you sit at home all day???

This isn't rocket science.

[Federico del pueblo]

Seminar for year 1: Go out and talk to people

Seminar for year 2: implement all of the attraction tactics etc.

 

Just think of a view things you can use as canned openers and use them, this is ok, because you won't be able to think of something spontaneously due to your fear and lack of experience.

"Hey you guys look like fun, so I wanted to say hi"

"Hey, you look interesting, so I was intrigued and wanted to meet you...Hi I'm bloomer, what's your name?"

"Hi, you guys have some great vibes goin on here, so I wanted to come by for a moment, I'm bloomer, who are you?"

"You look like cool people and I think cool people should meet other cool people..."

Or make your own versions.

[bloomer]

@Leo Gura

Thanks for the quick reply. I will do those three. 

Just now, Leo Gura said:

1) Google the best bars/clubs in your city.

I already know a few. Not from having been in them just generally from people and knowing the city I live in. 

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

2) Make a commitment to visit them every Fri/Sat at least.

I will do, but I don't think I'm even capable of really having a conversation with anyone.

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

3) Approach people and talk.

No one even wants to talk. Everyone is always in their social cliques and groups and only talk really among themselves. It was the same thing in college, all the girls would sit among themselves, would never talk, would always be on their phones scrolling through social media and as soon as class would end they would as fast as they can pack up their shit and be out the door before you could even say hello. 

Outside everyone is always on their phones, never looking away and not even paying attention to where they're going. I think the biggest things that fucked me over and got me where I am is not being on social media and being ugly.

They're all avoidant. Most guys don't get girls from cold approaches. They get them through friends and social groups. I'll be a fucking autistic weirdo if I start approaching people and girls who don't want to be approached in a bar or club. I doubt I'll even be let into a club. I will try anyway just so I can say that I did try if it doesn't work out.

Wouldn't I also develop a bad reputation if I started hitting on all these girls and being rejected by 100s of them? 

It's like no one even wants to talk. It's like there is this social media wall that people use to vet you to avoid real life face to face confrontations. Online they have total control of who talks to them. They don't want me talking to them. But I will eventually force some awkward interactions because it has got to the point for me that the pain of being an anti social hermit is worse than being seen as a creepy weirdo. 

I know it reads like a list of excuses but I will go out and to bars and try this out. I'll probably just start out going there and not talking with anyone and drinking/smoking alone until I can muster up the courage. It just seems like I've been forced into ridiculous public antics just to have interactions with people and women. 

I'm cutting out all the negative "blackpill" incelly content I've been watching and reading anyway in the mean time. 

[bloomer]

@Leo Gura

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No girls likes you because you haven't even presented yourself to a girl. How can she like you when you sit at home all day???

This isn't rocket science.

You're right. I will approach some and even if they reject me at least then I'll know for sure they don't like me. 

@Federico del pueblo

5 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Seminar for year 1: Go out and talk to people

Seminar for year 2: implement all of the attraction tactics etc.

Well I'm only thinking what I'm planning on doing this Saturday lol. But I appreciate you bringing it back so can look at it in the long term. 

6 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Just think of a view things you can use as canned openers and use them, this is ok, because you won't be able to think of something spontaneously due to your fear and lack of experience.

It'll come across as awkward but I will write down some ideas for openers with people.

[bloomer]

@Thunder Kiss

?Everyone is horrid expect me (and possibly you.) 

Love the pfp Thunder.

Just now, Thunder Kiss said:

would you ever consider getting a job as a bartender/table waiting?

Funny enough I am working in customer service at the moment. It has helped a lot. Just a year ago I wouldn't be able to do half the things I can now. It's extroversion via osmosis.

2 minutes ago, Thunder Kiss said:

I would hate going over and taking a tables order but then after a while I became quite casual and extroverted about it.  It could be a baby step. Plus you will probably have female colleagues and serve lots of women. 

The job I'm currently working is cutting hours back in December and January quite a lot. So I do need a second part time job. I'll think about applying for some bar work. Thing with females colleagues is I worry if I approach them and fuck things up (which is honestly the most likely scenario) it could backfire and effect my job and make for an awkward work environment.   

[Raze]

https://www.davidtianphd.com/masterclass-content/

https://toddwinnergame.com/get/

you can try using these for more resources, they are free they just want an email.

[bloomer]

I may as well post my notes, thoughts and questions on the second video. 

“The best game looks so effortless and natural it isn’t seen as game. That’s not game he’s just a cool extroverted guy.”

I'm so unbelievably robotic when dealing with people it's insane. I think up a line to say to someone thinking "this is what human beings say to one another" then wait until silence or some opportunity to spew that line like I'm some actor reading a script and it always seems forced and unnatural. But I struggle to let my guard down with people, get out of that logical state of mind and relax and speak my mind with people. So it might not be rocket science for some people but it feels that way for me. 

Day Game VS Night Game

Okay Leo splits it into day game vs night game. Day game is meeting some girl whose a stranger in public and starting a conversation with her. This is in a park, in a mall, in a café etc… Second, night game, is meeting some girl at night at a bar, nightclub, party, festival, concert etc… and striking up a conversation with her. Now both have their pros and cons. Day game is a lot more low energy, but requires you to be more socially adjusted and know what you're doing. You and her are probably sober, there's a lot more social knowledge needed. But it's better for getting dates and finding a gf. You exchange numbers and then move on. Whereas night game it's a lot more high energy, alcohol is usually involved. So night game is for more extroverted people. You can find more women in the night, they're more receptive to going home and sleeping with you. So this is better for one night stands. There's more room for social mistakes because people are drunk and loose. There are more women to approach and they're usually dressed up and trying to look their best which makes them more intimidating.

Once you approach don't be half assed, no meekness or 50%. You're all in. Get her attention. No ambiguity. Open with "hey, excuse me". Or "can I stop you for a moment". Get her attention first, make eye contact. Don't just blurt out, "I THOUGHT YOU WERE BEAUTIFUL". Make sure there's a pause and smile. So smile because this is a weird thing to stop a stranger, she doesn't know you, doesn't know if you're trying to sell her something or if there is some kind of threat or danger. Once that's all down now give your opener. The opener doesn't matter honestly just say anything. The difficultly is keeping the conversation going. Here's Leo's opener, "hey I know this is very forward, but I just saw you and thought you were very attractive, so I wanted to come over and speak to you. Hi my name is Leo what's your name?." Something of that sort. If they still want to carry on about their day after that then just say "take care, have a good day" something of that sort.

You need to relax, any anxiety and fear in you will translate to her. As mentioned yesterday they don't want to put in an awkward situation. Social situations are supposed to be smooth. If you're approaching a girl in the day be super calm and at ease. Make inferences based on what she's wearing or doing etc… Dressed in all black, flowery dress, what I say doesn't even need to make sense. Just say shit that’s interesting. Don't be logical be as emotional as possible. Ask emotional questions about "what are you passionate about?" rather than "where do you work?". Ask quickly if they're single or not.

ACT LIKE YOU'RE ABOVE HER
DO NOT SELL YOURSELF TO HER

Best line after meeting a girl, talking with her, potentially going on an instant date for some coffee or whatever and where ever. To get you laid is "can I come with you?". Where ever she says she's going, for a drink, with some friends, going home etc… is "can I come with you?". By the end of the night she's going to be at home or in a bed. If she says yes to coming with her where ever she's going this is how you get laid. Girls don't lead you to sex you lead them to sex. Girls don't take responsibility for sex.

So I'm going to work on building my way up. Since I've never even been to a bar with any mates I can go in and just observe and people watch, have a drink and smoke. No pressure to even talk to anyone, that will put me at ease. Then try to make some friends that would be a next important step, slowly incrementally getting better and better. I'm not thinking two years ahead. But thanks @Raze I will use those links. I have watched some PUA stuff before.

These were Leo's step by step for newbies on the vid for talking anyway.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

1) Google the best bars/clubs in your city.

2) Make a commitment to visit them every Fri/Sat at least.

3) Approach people and talk.

1. Find clubs/bars that are good for approaching

2. Go out every Friday/Saturday

3. Get over your approach anxiety, approach and build state.

4. Do a solid approach

5. Work on solid eye contact, firm voice, smiling

6. Be positive and put yourself into a happy mood when talking to girls

7. Keep talking to she blows you out or tells you to leave

8. Always try to end the interaction with a phone number, instant date or moving to a new location

^ those 8 are the 20% you need to know to get 80% of the results

[Leo Gura]

59 minutes ago, bloomer said:

No one even wants to talk. Everyone is always in their social cliques and groups and only talk really among themselves.

BS excuses.

YOU don't want to talk. That's the problem. You are afraid so your mind invents excuses. And it will invent 100 more excuses even if you overcome this particular one. Your mind will lie to you endlessly in this process.

[bloomer]

So it took Leo 450 approaches to get his first lay. I'm supposed to go out and approach 100s of girls just to find one that might find me attractive enough to sleep with me and I have to approach 1000s in the year to find maybe 3-10 girls who would actually be down to fuck me. How am I supposed to do that without developing a reputation for being a creepy weirdo?

Also how am I supposed to be confident? Confidence I heard somewhere is the memory of winning. If you've only lost how am I supposed to be confident? How are you supposed to remain to motivated when you're facing all those rejections? 

Also is it possible that I would get bullied and fucked with if I go to bars and clubs by myself? I always feel like a fish out of water in social environments and I think others pick up on that as well. Smelling the fear on me like a shark smells blood. I don't want to get into any fights with people. Before I get the "man up and stop being a pussy" shit. All you're doing is some machismo posturing and I don't give a fuck about that. It's a reasonable question to ask because going to club and bars by yourself to talk to strangers is weird social behaviors that most normal people don't have to resort to. Forgive my hesitancy. 

[bloomer]

@Leo Gura

Just now, Leo Gura said:

YOU don't want to talk. That's the problem.

This weekend I'll go about myself to a bar and I will try to talk to someone. You're right though, I don't want to force conversation with strangers. Especially with girls who are probably going to reject and embarrass me. Maybe even spread rumors about me and get me seen as the creep weirdo who has no friends and has to resort to awkwardly hitting on them. 

[Leo Gura]

@bloomer Start by talking to clerks at the mall.

A college campus would also be great for you.

[bloomer]

@Leo Gura

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Start by talking to clerks at the mall.

A college campus would also be great for you.

I will. I also have a works do coming up soon that has me anxious. So I do want to go to bars and out at night just for preparation so I'm not a nervous wreck on that night. There is a girl I am interested in work but I'm not going to approach her or fuck it up. 

[mandyjw]

Why don't you do online dating? I think you would do well there. You're a good communicator, you're engaging, friendly, honest. Your communication via writing is very good. I have a hard time believing that girls wouldn't like you off the bat. There are tons of girls in the world who want to have, good, deep conversations and I'm assuming you'd like the same kind back. Your inexperience in that scenario is more honest and endearing than a set back. In a club or bar scene it's much more out of place. Even if that's what you really want, I have a hard time believing that you wouldn't be very quick to loosen up to being able to express yourself as well in person. There are a lot of people who cannot even express themselves or connect via text writing in conversation. I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Essentially it's all about going for what you want and letting go of thoughts that say "I can't". 

 

 

[Federico del pueblo]

1 hour ago, bloomer said:

It'll come across as awkward but I will write down some ideas for openers with people.

It might. But it will also come across as awkward if you don't say anything at all and stand there silently in the corner with a drink in your hand.

The main reason you'll come across as awkward will be your anxiety and probably weak delivery.

You could also say these openers as though they just came to your mind right before talking to the people, not like you're saying some memorized line.

You can always still think of something spontaneously yourself and say that.

[Federico del pueblo]

23 minutes ago, bloomer said:

Also how am I supposed to be confident? Confidence I heard somewhere is the memory of winning. If you've only lost how am I supposed to be confident? How are you supposed to remain to motivated when you're facing all those rejections?  

That's the kind of bath in steel you have to go through to become strong.

You may very well have sex with a girl before 500 approaches, especially if your standards are not incredibly high. Don't expect to have sex with a model within your first few hundred approaches, but normal girls should be possible.

You'll have to change all of these limiting beliefs like "nobody wants to talk to other people" etc. Start assuming things like "everybody wants to meet new interesting people, and I'm one of them". You have to start somewhere...

Rejections are not bad, but opportunities to grow and have fun with. Just wonder "what was funny about this rejection?" and then keep going.

A successful approach is accomplished the moment you managed to utter a sound to a stranger, from this point forward you will rate the approach as a 100% succes, even if you vomit in the girls face and shit your pants out of fear that same moment, or she throws her drink at you.

I know all of this feels like you have to bullshit yourself, and that's true.

Though you are already bullshitting yourself anyway with your negative thoughts and assumptions, so you'll keep bullshitting yourself just with more helpful bullshit ok?

Good luck.

[bloomer]

@mandyjw

20 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Why don't you do online dating?

Because I think I'm ugly and the only thing that matters online is the way you look. That and I have no photos of myself. I think all the pictures would be of me alone in my room lol and for any thinking girl that's a redflag. 

21 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

You're a good communicator, you're engaging, friendly, honest. Your communication via writing is very good. I have a hard time believing that girls wouldn't like you off the bat. 

Damn thank you very much. 

22 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

There are tons of girls in the world who want to have, good, deep conversations and I'm assuming you'd like the same kind back. 

Where am I supposed to find these girls? Also how far are we talking? Tinder isn't the place for deep conversation. I have tried talking some girls I've met online on discord and snapchat. Recently even I started sending songs I learnt on guitar for her and other stuff like pictures of myself which got me out of my comfort zone. I know it's pathetic that I'm not even comfortable sending messages to a woman in another country lol. But the likelihood of finding a girl who want a relationship and those kind of conversations near me is very slim. 

22 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

I have a hard time believing that you wouldn't be very quick to loosen up to being able to express yourself as well in person. There are a lot of people who cannot even express themselves or connect via text writing in conversation. I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Essentially it's all about going for what you want and letting go of thoughts that say "I can't". 

Well I'll try to communicate and express myself in person. That trying paired with alcohol I might be able too. I know Leo said don't drink but I can't envisage myself going out talking to girls without it. 

I will start going after what I want.

@Federico del pueblo

26 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

It might. But it will also come across as awkward if you don't say anything at all and stand there silently in the corner with a drink in your hand.

Yeah but at least I'm more comfortable with the drink in hand. 

26 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

You could also say these openers as though they just came to your mind right before talking to the people, not like you're saying some memorized line.

You can always still think of something spontaneously yourself and say that.

I'll write down some stuff as a general idea and try to improvise in the situation.

13 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Don't expect to have sex with a model within your first few hundred approaches, but normal girls should be possible.

I'll be happy with anything human and female at this point lol. I'm joking a bit. I still have standards even though I'm in no position to.

13 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

You'll have to change all of these limiting beliefs like "nobody wants to talk to other people" etc. Start assuming things like "everybody wants to meet new interesting people, and I'm one of them".

Feels like I'm lying to myself when I say those things. But I am cutting out negative self chatter. Otherwise I wouldn't even be bothering to watch these videos and try this stuff.

15 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

I know all of this feels like you have to bullshit yourself, and that's true.

Though you are already bullshitting yourself anyway with your negative thoughts and assumptions, so you'll keep bullshitting yourself just with more helpful bullshit ok?

How can you bullshit yourself when you know it's bullshit? Isn't the trick to forget that you even bullshitted yourself to begin with?

15 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Good luck.

Thanks

@Thunder Kiss

13 minutes ago, Thunder Kiss said:

Once you get comfortable being girls and realising they aren’t so frightening then you will have grown a bit and will feel more confident with chatting to random girls who hang out at the bar etc.

I understand that. But it's when it comes to attraction. I've befriended girls who are work colleagues and classmates before. It's just going from there into flirting and similar that is where I crash and burn. 

14 minutes ago, Thunder Kiss said:

Also forming friendships with other guys is important!

I know but I don't want to fuck guys. Joking but yes I want mates but that's also easier said than done and I know of no one who made a mate approaching at a bar lol. 

15 minutes ago, Thunder Kiss said:

this is great way to chat with a woman without feeling like you have to try and pull her.

I've done this actually. Well now I have a new barber and I like his cuts so I'm sticking with him. But I am capable of having conversations with women as long as they're not my age and if I don't find them remotely attractive. The moment I desire her and see potential I fuck it up always. It's really a situation of the hungry don't get fed lol.

[mandyjw]

4 minutes ago, bloomer said:

@mandyjw

Because I think I'm ugly and the only thing that matters online is the way you look. That and I have no photos of myself. I think all the pictures would be of me alone in my room lol and for any thinking girl that's a redflag. 

I highly doubt that's even close to the truth. Women don't care about looks. The ones that do project their insecurity on you. Because looks for women are made into such a big deal in society, that's a common issue. But it's not an issue at all, as long as you understand it has nothing to do with you or how you look. More Disney movies like Brave and plus size Victoria Secret models will hopefully make this less of an issue for future generations. It's a huge blockage to intimacy. The karma of it hurts men as much as it does women, if not more. All it's made up of are self doubting thoughts. These can be dropped. Take a picture of yourself outside then. As a happily married lady in her 30's I'll even give you feedback on your pics and profile if you want. But even so, it's just an opinion and doesn't mean anything. 

8 minutes ago, bloomer said:

Where am I supposed to find these girls? Also how far are we talking? Tinder isn't the place for deep conversation. I have tried talking some girls I've met online on discord and snapchat. Recently even I started sending songs I learnt on guitar for her and other stuff like pictures of myself which got me out of my comfort zone. I know it's pathetic that I'm not even comfortable sending messages to a woman in another country lol. But the likelihood of finding a girl who want a relationship and those kind of conversations near me is very slim. 

To be honest I've never used online dating myself, my only experience is with it hanging out with my female friends who did it and seeing profiles there. There are sites that are much better than others for actual relationships. Tinder isn't great for that from what I've heard, it's more in the hookup bar/club scene category. Just look and ask around for good dating sites. Discord is ok, but find a site you can talk to local girls you can actually meet in person. That's awesome that you've already started opening up more. Songs on a guitar... see? I just don't think you fully appreciate how much you have to offer. 

[bloomer]

@mandyjw

7 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

I highly doubt that's even close to the truth. Women don't care about looks. The ones that do project their insecurity on you.

Look when you say women don't care about looks but then go on to in the next sentence to contradict yourself. That makes me skeptically that women don't care about appearance. ESPECIALLY on something like Tinder. I think women care more about looks than men do honestly. But no doubt do films and fashion companies affect the way we see the world and judge other people. 

10 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Take a picture of yourself outside then. As a happily married lady in her 30's I'll even give you feedback on your pics and profile if you want. But even so, it's just an opinion and doesn't mean anything. 

Sure when I take some pictures I might send some your way to see if they would be good on a dating profile. I would need some advice and criticism on that and it'll be helpful coming from a woman. 

15 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

There are sites that are much better than others for actual relationships.

I'll look into it. I doubt I'll find many 21 year olds on them. 

16 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Tinder isn't great for that from what I've heard, it's more in the hookup bar/club scene category. Just look and ask around for good dating sites.  Just look and ask around for good dating sites. Discord is ok, but find a site you can talk to local girls you can actually meet in person. That's awesome that you've already started opening up more. Songs on a guitar... see? I just don't think you fully appreciate how much you have to offer.  

Yeah I think the same thing, that tinder is similar to the bar/club scene. Also a relationship isn't really real unless you meet in person I think. As for discord and finding girls that I can actually relate with on a deeper level. I have found one that I do get really along with and I think of myself as a romantic sort of person. Since I haven't had any relationships before I take this long distance relationship seriously and act all lovey dovey. Hence the songs. Which I actually think is a bad thing lol. I never thought I would get to this point where I'm now messaging a girl (not going to say in love) who's in another country because I'm too much of a socially maladjusted idiot to meet any girl locally in person. It's a bad coping mechanism and I fear that if I was to meet this girl in person I would fuck things up. It's a lot easier to be cooler and come across as a normal person when you get to type your messages or think about your voice recordings.

But thanks a lot for the kind words. 

 

[How to be wise]

@bloomer If you just want to lose your virginity, get 100 bucks and have a hooker come to your place. She will fuck your brains.