Casual sex vs relationships - your opinions?

[Jacquelope]

On 11/30/2021 at 3:05 AM, zazen said:

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Leo's recent burning through karma video has my mind really thinking. Isn't the process of burning through sexual karma by dating and sleeping with people at those peoples / societies expense? 

Doesn't it leave and cause emotional baggage / trauma / collateral damage ?

 

I absolutely believe it does.

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For people struggling with dating this thinking isn't whats needed but for people who are having some success meeting new people intimately or too much success even, it begs the question of whats morally right and how much responsibility we have for others feelings and for the collective. Not as a cop out or rationalising why we suck at dating but as a genuine care for not wanting to hurt others. Knowing people are bound to get hurt when we involve intimacy causes hesitancy in wanting to date around casually to even get to the point of relationship but in 2021 thats the way people in general are getting into relationships, through sleeping around first. The cart and the horse are reversed.

This is why I and others say excessive amounts of sexual intimacy cheapens it and damages one's pair-bonding abilities. For men and women alike. This comes from the prospect of succeeding in dating, not sucking at it. 

I must also bring up the possibility that if one sucks at dating, and they fix the wrong underlying issues that make them suck at dating, then success may bring them worse suffering than failing. A terrible breakup, being cheated on, suffering abuse, etc are a number of potential examples. I was engaged to a woman once in a relationship that made me wish I had replaced those years with involuntary celibacy, it was just that bad. Fortunately it was something I experienced only once. Then again I can imagine what that would have done to me if I had run into that relationship after years of involuntary celibacy. It wouldn't have been pretty.

 

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Could we rationalise to ourselves that it's part of their growth process  to go through heart break and come out stronger, or better them selves..maybe just say its evolutionary pressure for them to strengthen themselves? Even if we are honest and ethical hearts are bound to ache in the dating process and for the conscious aware some of us can double think before we act, or put others feelings before our lower desires. Then again, if we are more actualised than the average person wouldn't those people we sleep with and maybe stay friends with benefit from knowing us in this life time and maybe us being a catalyst of inspiration to develop themselves. The mind can rationalise in many ways...Ram Dass has said who are we to take away another persons suffering, that is their path. Elsewhere he said he stopped getting involved sexually as to not hurt and cause suffering also.

Yeah as long as we don't adapt by making relationships disposable, which is a common defense mechanism developed from breakups.

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Just a thought experiment: could we see dating and even sleeping around  as a higher consciousness activity in that knowing people only change when they have emotional leverage or pain, by being that emotional leverage for someone or multiple people your sleeping with, and stating your standards of what you look for in a partner, you help raise / actualise them selves in order to be with you or win you over into a exclusive relationship. Even if you don't accept being exclusive they would have bettered themselves in the process and for their own life / future relationship anyway..

I don't see how one can do that and remain mentally stable and suitable for a LTR. I admit my perspective has gaps so someone else will have a differing opinion.

 

[Jacquelope]

On 11/30/2021 at 3:53 AM, something_else said:

I read this as "I'm confused by the stats but I don't want to give up my existing notions about bars and nightclubs"

Tons of couples meet in bars and nightclubs. My parents met in a nightclub and married each other lol

Anywhere you have large numbers of men and women mixing together are places where couples meet. Yea these places are heavy on the hookup side, but it's not like they're only for hookups. And things that start out casual can lead to relationships as well

Yea, it's probably the confident and the good looking who thrive in that environment but it's clearly not just a tiny majority of elite men. It's at least 27.5% lol. The average dude has good enough social skills to go to a nightclub with friends and chat up girls. If he does that enough one of them will fall for him

All the game talk here is usually for dudes who are socially fucked in some way or another and need some bootstrapping to fix that

I basically said my existing notions don't agree with the data. One thing is true though, 27.5% of men succeeding in bars and night clubs bodes well for men below the top 20% (elite) group, but it doesn't necessarily open the door to average men. It more likely means above average/below elite men can handle that venue, though. 

So, what kind of women hang out at these venues? I think it's not dumb to assume the women who visit these places are very tough audiences and very defensive. I would be highly surprised if any female patron at these establishments turn out to be tolerant of men who are anything less than very smooth talking and good looking. (This would support the even higher success levels found in online dating.)

[something_else]

1 hour ago, Jacquelope said:

I basically said my existing notions don't agree with the data. One thing is true though, 27.5% of men succeeding in bars and night clubs bodes well for men below the top 20% (elite) group, but it doesn't necessarily open the door to average men. It more likely means above average/below elite men can handle that venue, though. 

Yea, the smooth talkers and the good lookers succeed. But your average dude who is capable of socialising, has a social circle, goes out tons, will get action by sheer numbers of girls he ends up interacting with naturally. It only takes one girl to find him attractive and there you go. Most guys in college/uni end up getting action and that all happens through these kinds of venues that are jam packed with people 7 days a week.

The problem is that there are an increasingly large number of dudes who do not meet this basic social skill requirement. The solution is not telling them to stop socialising with girls and wait for the one to come along. It's the exact opposite. They need as much exposure as they can stomach.

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So, what kind of women hang out at these venues? I think it's not dumb to assume the women who visit these places are very tough audiences and very defensive. I would be highly surprised if any female patron at these establishments turn out to be tolerant of men who are anything less than very smooth talking and good looking. (This would support the even higher success levels found in online dating.)

Normal girls hang out at these venues. Like 90% of the population enjoys a party. Everyone at these venues is there to get drunk and have fun. They go there to meet new people. Dance. Drink. Socialise. If you have even basic social skills you can go to these places, talk and dance with strangers. Clubs are especially good for this because everyone blends into one big mess of people