Is inner game everything? And are these claims realistic?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, subterfuge said:

so you certainly seem to understand what this guy is telling me. Yes, his theory is that attraction is both irellevant and also super easy to get. Now you just keep asking for small comliance steps all the way to to sex. And you 'solve' the issue each time she rejects comliance (either with a tease or with some sort of logical objection handling line such as 'I have to be up early too' if she says she can't come back because she was work in the morning)

Yes, I understand that method.

I have heard that some very advanced guys boil their game down to this: you basically go to a club and quickly compliance test every girl until you find one who is very compliant and down. You spend most of your time just screening for logistics rather than getting all fancy with your verbals. You don't waste time running long sets for 30+ mins. Instead you quickly test girls out for 5 mins to see how down they are. If she isn't down, you eject and move to the next. This may be the most efficient mechanical way of getting laid.

I think there is some truth to this, but it's not entirely true.

I think attraction is a factor. But of course attraction can be generated with solid game.

I think if you limit your game to just pure compliance testing that's too mechanical.

Then again, I am not some master at game. It can also be hard to know which PUA coach to trust. They're not exactly trust-worthy or objective people. They tend tend to be scummy and dishonest.

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But I have been testing it though ,and as expected, girls will fail to comply, assuming i'm not her type, as soon as teh compliance test is anything that could be sexual. No matter how small I increase each compliance test there is a 'line' where, if i'm not her type, she won't comply. But he says that's now how it works and he can bang 10/10 models every night etc which is what I want to do!. lol.  But maybe it 'works' for him because he's much better looking than me? I don't know. Although he of course says he's not and that girls do'nt care about looks anyway. Guess  it's hard to test stuff like this. My really handsome wingman can (and does) get laid being ridiculously direct so you could say his style works, but for most guys it's suicide lol

Yes, it is hard to test stuff like that.

In practice, most guys who are really good with game also have fairly good looks, which creates a killer combo. And then it become very difficult to know which is doing the heavy lifting in the interaction.

Looks are certainly a factor. Online game proves this conclusively. Now in-person game is very different, but still you would be a fool to assume that the #1 factor in online is completely nullified with game. Game can get you far, but you cannot game your way into a girl's pants if she is simply not attracted to you physically at all.

Sometimes you run very solid game but the girl is just not interested. This is pretty common actually. The key is just to move on to another girl who is.

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Is your friend really good looking?

It's hard to say. I would say he's got a pretty dashing look. But he's not some jacked, tall, muscular, big-jawed dude. He does not fit the classic jock or Chad stereotype. But I would say he's well above average.

He is extremely charismatic and charming, and has insane verbal game.

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Sounds like his results are better than any PUA i've ever read about or on youtube.

He's a lesser known pickup coach. I'm not going to name him.

To be fair, his theory is that girls do not have a type. He believes if his game is good enough any girl will sleep with him regardless of type. Be believes the girl will backwards-rationalize that he is her type after she sleeps with him.

I'm not sure if that's true. I'm just telling you his mindset. It's hard to measure these things objectively.

I'm open to the idea that girls don't really have a type. But I think some girls simply won't be attracted to you physically, and you should therefore move on to other girls.

In my own experience I've noticed that Asian girls are more easily attracted to me than other kinds of girls. This suggests that type does play a factor. Then again, it's hard to measure this objectively.

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And this is using the same compliance method?

No, his game is a lot more charming, charismatic, and verbal. It's not so mechanical as just compliance testing.

[subterfuge]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

es, I understand that method.

I have heard that some very advanced guys boil their game down to this: you basically go to a club and quickly compliance test every girl until you find one who is very compliant and down.

That's where his theory and you understanding of his method is a bit different I guess. He said  it's not about finding one who is compliant and down. His theory is that they are ALL compliant and down (assuming they are straight) and that with that in mind he will just choose the hottest girl and pull her home

 

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Sometimes you run very solid game but the girl is just not interested. This is pretty common actually. The key is just to move on to another girl who is.

Yes, that's always been my general thinking too. I think a LOT of the time you can run really good game, but she's just not interested/attracted/whatever, and so will of course fail your compliance tests as soon as they are very 'man-to-woman'. He says that basically never happens though and is remedied with his operant conditioning etc

 

Just hard to know who to believe and stuff nowadays. I've seen millions of infields from the apparent 'best' and honestly i'm rarely impressed (I can tell within seconds, from her level of instant attraction, whether the infield will be a success or not and i'm basically always right! The PUA is good at capitalizing on existing attraction, but he can't 'convert' a girl from 'no' to 'yes'). But it seems to the only people who claim to have this super power of banging whoever they want due to almost mind control level game are people on forums and reddit and stuff who also don't have infields. Kind of frustrating

[something_else]

This dude on reddit is not a healthy role model, stop listening to him or consuming any content written by him

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, subterfuge said:

That's where his theory and you understanding of his method is a bit different I guess. He said  it's not about finding one who is compliant and down. His theory is that they are ALL compliant and down (assuming they are straight) and that with that in mind he will just choose the hottest girl and pull her home

I understand what he's saying.

In my experience that won't work. But maybe I'm just not good enough at the method.

3 minutes ago, subterfuge said:

The PUA is good at capitalizing on existing attraction, but he can't 'convert' a girl from 'no' to 'yes').

Of course it's way easier to capitalize on immediate attraction.

Converting from no to yes is an uphill battle. I'm sure it can be done but I'm not sure how consistently.

In the end, try it and see what results you get. You have to learn to lead her regardless.

[subterfuge]

24 minutes ago, something_else said:

This dude on reddit is not a healthy role model, stop listening to him or consuming any content written by him

He's one of the few people who claims to be able to do what I want to be able to do so I keep getting roped into his posts lol.

 

However, one massive alarm bell is that he seems to think john anthony is the best there is. I've seen john anthony's infields. They are not good!

 

 

i've seen his 'premium' infields and John Anthony can't seem to convert an girl from no to yes and he can't get compliance when the girls aren't into him. So if the reddit guys hero can't do it, I wonder whether the reddit guy is living in a fantasy land lol. I'd love to see in person someone using variuos methods to take girls home who clearly seem uninteretsed and unattracted to the guy on his approach. It's talked about but basically never been shown. A bit like alien life haha

[Leo Gura]

You can certainly flip a girl around if she is cold on approach.

But it's not going to be something you do consistently.

Just focus on improving your game rather than aiming for some magical 100% consistency.

Even the best guys in the world get blown out all the time.

I know many guys who are very good. And they have bad nights frequently. It's a very chaotic process.

[Karmadhi]

@Leo Gura

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

In my own experience I've noticed that Asian girls are more easily attracted to me than other kinds of girls. This suggests that type does play a factor.

Asians tend to like white guys for some reason. I am not even that white but i look caucasian and asian girls by far have the highest percentage of physical attraction towards me compared to other races.

Type definetly matters but it is very subjective. I have heard all sorts of weird shit. A girl once mentioned how she was attracted to fingers in guys, another cared a lot about ears being cleaned inside (weird i know).

Worrying about type is really silly imo. Just improve your appearnce and you re good to go.

 

[universe]

On 22.11.2021 at 11:31 PM, subterfuge said:

Was reading someone on the seduction sub on reddit...

He said he believes he can bang ANY girl if she is straight.

Yeah well, don't believe him.

 

The nice thing with compliance is that it gets guys to stop sabotaging themselves.

Instead of leaving her because you think she doesn't like you, you push the conversation forward and have a chance to find out she IS into you.

[Hardkill]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can certainly flip a girl around if she is cold on approach.

But it's not going to be something you do consistently.

Just focus on improving your game rather than aiming for some magical 100% consistency.

Even the best guys in the world get blown out all the time.

I know many guys who are very good. And they have bad nights frequently. It's a very chaotic process.

I believe that it's similar with sales/marketing, TV shows/movies/commercials/record companies/high intellectual visual and performance art shows, college level/professional level sports, job applications, entrepreneurship, social circle, etc. Regardless of how talented or skilled you are for any kind of career or for any kind of activity, most of the new products you try to sell/market to consumers will be rejected, most of your auditions for any kind of showbiz or commercials or for any kind of high intellectual visual and performance art shows will fail, most of your tryouts for college-level/professional-level athletic careers will fail, most employees will turn you down even when it comes to applying to many regular kinds of jobs, most businesses you start will end up failing fast, most people will not want to be friends with you. Isn't that right?

 

 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Hardkill said:

I believe that it's similar with sales/marketing, TV shows/movies/commercials/record companies/high intellectual visual and performance art shows, college level/professional level sports, job applications, entrepreneurship, social circle, etc. Regardless of how talented or skilled you are for any kind of career or for any kind of activity, most of the new products you try to sell/market to consumers will be rejected, most of your auditions for any kind of showbiz or commercials or for any kind of high intellectual visual and performance art shows will fail, most of your tryouts for college-level/professional-level athletic careers will fail, most employees will turn you down even when it comes to applying to many regular kinds of jobs, most businesses you start will end up failing fast, most people will not want to be friends with you. Isn't that right?

Pretty much.

Nor should you even care about getting some high conversion rate.

In online sales, a 2% conversion rate is considered good. You don't even need 10% conversion rate to get amazing success in life. If you are seeking a conversion rate over 10% you're barking up the wrong tree.

You can approach 20 girls in a night at a busy club. If you had a 5% conversion rate you'd be sleeping with 100+ girls per year, which is just silly.

[The0Self]

On 11/22/2021 at 5:31 PM, subterfuge said:

"<blah blah blah>" And then the next sentence is "So what've you got going on today after this?" And you proceed to find out her logistics - what time she gets off work and if she's busy later. Once you figure that you, you can go into the date invite in the form of: "Do you like X activity?" -> yes -> "okay cool, we should do X activity [after work or sometime soon], sound good?" then once she agrees to that you can nail down the specifics.

So I see very little in the way of  'game' there

Then you’re blind.

Edited November 24, 2021 by The0Self

[subterfuge]

1 hour ago, The0Self said:

Then you’re blind.

lol. There's no attraction material.

If you're not her type, she answers your quetsions (, 'i'm just going home after work', 'yes I like wine' etc, and then says 'no thanks' when you ask her out haha). That's called asking a girl some questions, but maybe you consider it 'game'. Different strokes

Edited November 24, 2021 by subterfuge

[FlyingLotus]

10 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Asians tend to like white guys for some reason.

That’s because we’re super racist.  You all look the same and we’re mistaking you for some other white dude.

[subterfuge]

6 hours ago, universe said:

Yeah well, don't believe him.

 

yes, speaking too another pickup guy on reddit, it appears he may well have lots of usernames and is likely 'john anthony' himself (who appears aweful at game from his infields as well as being exposed a few times) shilling for business and making up lies so yeah. Not surprised the compliance theory makes no sense. It's all about attraction. If you're not her type, she fails to comply with any sexual compliance test, no matter how small you try to 'baby step' it

Edited November 24, 2021 by subterfuge

[something_else]

13 hours ago, subterfuge said:

yes, speaking too another pickup guy on reddit, it appears he may well have lots of usernames and is likely 'john anthony' himself (who appears aweful at game from his infields as well as being exposed a few times) shilling for business and making up lies so yeah. Not surprised the compliance theory makes no sense. It's all about attraction. If you're not her type, she fails to comply with any sexual compliance test, no matter how small you try to 'baby step' it

I would say as a rule anyone who presents to you an all-encompasing, 100% success rate, too good to be true kinda system like this is just outright full of shit. It has that "one simple trick" kinda vibe

There is no simple trick and no shortcut.

Anything that refers to a 'system' or a complete 'theory' you should follow is probably total horseshit. At least any time I've seen that kind of 'system' or 'theory' mindset from pickup people it's just sounded really dumb

Even if he could get this to work, chances are you can't because you don't have whatever he had that made it work, and so you should focus on just doing your own thing, pushing your own boundaries, finding out what you can do and what you can get away with

Then throw in some basic technical/theoretical advice on top from various different sources as well, places like this that discuss and compile a lot of attraction theory in a (mostly) pretty ethical way are good. But the focus should always be on the practical side and learning by experience instead of looking for handbooks and systems

[Lyubov]

All those premium systems, exclusive programs and complete theories from pick up guys are played up way more than they are worth and used to grift desperate guys out of cash. They can create a lot of tunnel vision for guys and I've seen a plenty get stuck in the theory loop or even just stuck in one approach hopping from one program to the next making little progress. You can learn a thing or two from them for sure but I remember seeing some of them costing like $5000..... the fuck 

Real ones know that pick up theory is basically useless once you reach a level of consciousness, usually through trial and error, where you realize it's about the principles and values you embody and aligning yourself with authentic desire. The theory I oddly find most helpful now will be books on more broader topics on relationships, sex and love, and even then I'm very hesitant and flexible when applying such theory. It's about finding out what works through experience, reflection and flexibility, not trying to shoehorn your experience desperately trying to get it to fit some theory you overpaid for. 

[PurpleTree]

Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, so I am changing myself.

 

Rumi

Edited November 25, 2021 by PurpleTree