Why does isolation mess up prisoners but not monks?

[johnlocke18]

If you’ve looked into solitary confinement, it was made to make prisoners “meet god”, but the isolation ruins them mentally. However, with monks it makes them more peaceful. I figured a may because one is forced and the other isn’t? Also that they’re out in nature.

[ItsNick]

99.99% of people or so can't handle it.

Even most monks can't.

 

Isolation is a broad term though.

But only a very small exceptional group of monks could go through "solitary confinement."

It being forced on you doesn't help of course. It's very different when it's a conscious choice you make for your spiritual advancement.

And a big difference is that the monk can choose to stop it at any time. And they're trained, gifted, etc.

 

On top of that prisoners that end up in solitary confinement probably already have a very low level of consciousness and development so yeah...

Edited November 21, 2021 by ItsNick

[Jordan]

I have thought for a while that I would like solitary confinement for maybe a month or so at a time rather than being in a normal prison cell. I am not sure how it would be unless I experienced it though. 

I think for most people they really do need some human interaction to feel safe. Trying to suppress feelings of boredom, fear and loneliness and retreating into your imagination will make people crazy though understandably.

I am pretty sure the light is on all the time so you can’t sleep well. It may also be too cold and uncomfortable with crappy food. These discomforts will eat away at you over time. 
 

I am curious how I would experience it and how a monk would experience it.

[Carl-Richard]

Trauma, depraved environment and lack of practice.

[Willie]

Hmmmmmmm...mid-March through late May last year was basically solitary confinement for me. I went to the grocery store when I needed more stuff, and I interacted with people on the phone and internet. And I have my dog with me, so we walked around outside a LOT. But aside from those caveats, I pretty much stayed alone in my apartment for 2 months. It was nice! It wouldn’t have been if either of those were taken away, though...

Edited November 22, 2021 by Willie

[Matt23]

4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Trauma, depraved environment and lack of practice.

Makes sense.

Imagine not knowing anything about meditation or spirituality, probably having mental health issues, being in an aggressive and threatening/unsafe environment, being forced to be there (not having the mental peace of at least knowing you could just leave if needed), being in a place that's aesthetically displeasing, eating crap food (I assume).  ...

As opposed to being in silent retreat in the mountains, in your own hut/place, being able to walk around outside in nature whenever you want, feeling in a safe atmosphere without guards or other inmates, not being forced to be there, knowing how to practice meditation and knowing and studying spirituality, eating perhaps better food, and maybe having better mental health. 

[Carl-Richard]

@Matt23

The thing about isolation as a tool for spiritual work is that it's supposed to streamline your attention and amplify your practice. Isolation on its own, without purpose or direction, will amplify mental instability and deteriorate your mind. Social interaction gives direction and meaning which stabilizes the mind, but it can distract you from spiritual work.

[Yarco]

Imagine someone throws you in a dark closet for an hour against your will, vs paying to go in an isolation tank for an hour. It's all about mindset and perspective. And most importantly, the voluntary aspect of devoting yourself to monkhood vs the state forcing you to become a prisoner.

[Salvijus]

I don't know but I think simply being quiet by yourself is a spiritual practice already. Simply being without any sense stimuli and no distractions you're being forced to be aware of what is happening within you. This awareness starts to burn ego and burn the mind and it can be very challenging. A monk is a very advanced meditator who had developed sufficient awareness to stay equanimous when ego starts to go crazy. A prisoner is simply incapable of facing his inner demons so direcly. We can only face the truth to the extent that we are ready for. If you experience something that you're not ready to accept it can traumatize you.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Salvijus

[mandyjw]

A prisoner is thrown in there against their will because they are assumed to be wrong, bad, unworthy of love and need fixing, You reap what you sow. It's not that the prisoner is a bad seed, it's that the intentions for doing such a thing are misunderstood. Now if one were to do the same thing to themselves, they might realize the error of their own intentions which would be an incredible breakthrough. If someone did such a thing for themselves out of curiosity and love, they would also reap what they sowed. 

[Nahm]

@johnlocke18

That there are monks & prisoners is already isolating (insanity). 

[mandyjw]

@Nahm ?

[TheWhollyTrinity]

If you had your memory wiped and then you were to watch the scariest horror movie and then you were put in isolation, do you think you would suffer from the memories of the horror movie? 

If you had your memory wiped and then watched a wonderfully-uplifting movie that gave you a tool to process your thoughts and emotions before being put in isolation, do you think you would suffer the same amount?

When in isolation, you only have the contents of consciousness. When you've done nefarious things that you haven't made peace with then it can feel like you are living in hell (because you would be living in a sort of hell).

[Leo Gura]

Why does rape mess people up but not sex?

[Preety_India]

Because it's self imposed isolation. 

 

[How to be wise]

I doubt sadhguru will enjoy isolation.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

I doubt sadhguru will enjoy isolation.

The dude sat in samadhi for 13 days straight. I think he'll handle it.

[cetus]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

The dude sat in samadhi for 13 days straight. I think he'll handle it.

That's cheating- cheating the system....

[Matt23]

11 hours ago, Nahm said:

That there are monks & prisoners is already isolating (insanity). 

This statement is above our pay-grade lol.  Too high for some/many probs.  But I see your point.  

20 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

@Matt23

The thing about isolation as a tool for spiritual work is that it's supposed to streamline your attention and amplify your practice. Isolation on its own, without purpose or direction, will amplify mental instability and deteriorate your mind. Social interaction gives direction and meaning which stabilizes the mind, but it can distract you from spiritual work.

Also interesting...

Rings true as a description for much of my experience fosho. 

Cheers

[How to be wise]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

The dude sat in samadhi for 13 days straight. I think he'll handle it.

So he said...