Meditation vs. ‘THIS’ (& The Dangers of Neo Advaita Explained)

[Salvijus]

@Breakingthewall fear is impossible when all illusions are seen through. For this awareness is needed. Not intelectual understanding.

[BipolarGrowth]

This seems like the conversation has just turned into a dumpster fire lol…

[Salvijus]

1 minute ago, BipolarGrowth said:

This seems like the conversation has just turned into a dumpster fire lol…

It's actually getting somewhere I believe

[Salvijus]

Okey so anybody has any last words? It's late already where I'm from. I'll be going to sleep now. 

Regards to all who read this thing ?

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

What causes fear? It's a belief that I exist and I'm mortal. If recognition that I don't exist is total, then fear is impossible. Total is the key word here. If there is awareness of the false belief in I but there is still fear. Than recognition is not yet total.

You are an ego. The ego is all the universe. The ego is fear and attachment. There is not a false belief, it's real. The ego exist, you exist, the universe exist, as illusion from the point of view of the limitless emptiness that loves himself and dreams the infinite illusion as an emanation of his love, creative passion. It is not belief, it is real. fear is real, as it is the basis of illusion. As long as you are illusion, which you are, there will be fear

[Breakingthewall]

23 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Breakingthewall fear is impossible when all illusions are seen through. For this awareness is needed. Not intelectual understanding.

26 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

.

You could do a simple experiment.  reach a state of full understanding, enlightenment as buddha. then lie down on the ground and tell a friend to proceed by pounding the bones of your feet one by one with a hammer. You will see that you are the illusion and you cannot escape from it. And when you see the next hammer blow coming, you will feel fear. You could say : there is people, like the monk who fired himself in Vietnam, that aren't the dream anymore. I don't think so. They have a total control of himself, but they still are the dream. They feel fear but they totally control it. The only scape of illusion is death

Edited November 22, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Nahm]

37 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Nahm no bro insight is not an illusion.

 It is. 

37 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

A clear recognition that the self is not real ends all fear of mortality. I think you can't deny this. I can't see you making a good objection to this statement.

The “recognition that the self is not real” still includes a self, which was recognized as not real.

42 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

I didn't say "somebody" got liberated I sayed, fear has ended and that's it. You are being too picky about every word I say. ? 

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

 So this insight liberates one from the fear of illusionary snake, right? 

[Consilience]

56 minutes ago, Nahm said:

The “recognition that the self is not real” still includes a self, which was recognized as not real.

Disagree wholeheartedly. If this was recognized by a self, then it would not be the insight that the self is not real. Which is the akin to the Neo Advaita trap of over intellectualizing this stuff. If you disagree, then it is due to a communication barrier and limitation of words. The recognition that the self is an illusion occurs to nothing, no one, yet occurs though simultaneously having always been - paradox. 

[Nahm]

@Consilience

I think we’re saying the same thing here. 

[mandyjw]

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

What causes fear? It's a belief that I exist and I'm mortal. If recognition that I don't exist is total, then fear is impossible. Total is the key word here. If there is awareness of the false belief in I but there is still fear. Than recognition is not yet total. Some remnants of illusion are still causing fear. 

It's still spinning a story of an I that is threatened (not by some actual threat but by being subject to the experience of fear) getting to a place where the I is secure. 

If I tell a story about being fearless as being a condition that marks my recognition of my fearlessness, I will naturally resist and reject fear. That resistance and rejection is actually the fear itself. 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by mandyjw

[Consilience]

3 hours ago, mandyjw said:

It's still spinning a story of an I that is threatened (not by some actual threat but by being subject to the experience of fear) getting to a place where the I is secure. 

If I tell a story about being fearless as being a condition that marks my recognition of my fearlessness, I will naturally resist and reject fear. That resistance and rejection is actually the fear itself. 

 

Not necessarily. Yes that could happen, but then that wouldn't be what this pointing out of fearlessness points towards, nor does this pointing out of the nature of self and fearlessness necessitate the spinning of a story of an I that is threatened getting to a place where the I is secure. 

True fearlessness has no problems experiencing fear. We can hold space for this actuality when communicating about this clear seeing into the nature of self such that there is no longer fear, the simultaneous seeing that there was never fear. Again, paradox. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Consilience

[VeganAwake]

Fear is an inescapable phenomenon of a properly functioning body/mind organism.

Ignorance can appear as fearlessness. (a body that simply doesn't recognize an obvious threat to its survival)

Also external appearance doesn't reveal internal experience.... a body appearing fearless externally could be screaming in agony internally.(poker face)

None of which has anything to do with enlightenment.

❤ 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by VeganAwake

[RMQualtrough]

9 hours ago, Nahm said:

The “recognition that the self is not real” still includes a self, which was recognized as not real.

In my experience I didn't interpret any self to be able to think it is not real. I know that all aspects of the self including the word "I" seemed to be very distant from where I then was, and what I was, was at that time made of nothingness. The I thought and self and all things seemed very distant.

What to make of that? Is the nothingness still referred to as the self? I'm not sure because I don't like terms like "you're imagining the laws of physics". It seems whatever is responsible for that contains no element of me AT ALL, but vice versa what that is contains me...

I didn't feel the nothingness I became had any control, or at least as nothingness I could not will a million bucks into my lap etc. I didn't suddenly know everything. I am nothingness right now. And maybe the nothingness is omniscient (it must be), yet I am not even though I am it. That's strange.

[VeganAwake]

48 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

In my experience I didn't interpret any self to be able to think it is not real. I know that all aspects of the self including the word "I" seemed to be very distant from where I then was, and what I was, was at that time made of nothingness. The I thought and self and all things seemed very distant.

What to make of that? Is the nothingness still referred to as the self? I'm not sure because I don't like terms like "you're imagining the laws of physics". It seems whatever is responsible for that contains no element of me AT ALL, but vice versa what that is contains me...

I didn't feel the nothingness I became had any control, or at least as nothingness I could not will a million bucks into my lap etc. I didn't suddenly know everything. I am nothingness right now. And maybe the nothingness is omniscient (it must be), yet I am not even though I am it. That's strange.

Those experiences don't mean anything, there not important.

Imagine what a schizophrenic could write on this forum.....endless wild experiences.

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by VeganAwake

[Salvijus]

11 hours ago, Salvijus said:

A clear recognition that the self is not real ends all fear of mortality. I think you can't deny this. I can't see you making a good objection to this statement.

 

10 hours ago, Nahm said:

The “recognition that the self is not real” still includes a self, which was recognized as not real.

Nahm can we settle this once and for all? Does this recognition that the self is not real end the fear of dying or no?

You already agreed that the recognition that a snake doesn't exist end the fear of a an illusionary snake. 

The realization that the self is not real, and the fear of mortality that is caused by this illusion, when it is seen through. It dissapears.

Who attains this realization? Nobody. It's a consiquence of awareness.

Like who attains realization that a snake is an illusion? Nobody, it's a consiquence of having eyes and becoming experiencially aware that snake is just a rope. 

Awareness ends all illusions.

[Salvijus]

11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

You are an ego. The ego is all the universe. The ego is fear and attachment. There is not a false belief, it's real. The ego exist, you exist, the universe exist, as illusion from the point of view of the limitless emptiness that loves himself and dreams the infinite illusion as an emanation of his love, creative passion. It is not belief, it is real. fear is real, as it is the basis of illusion. As long as you are illusion, which you are, there will be fear

I'm not the ego. And I'm not the illusion. Illusion causes the fear of mortality. Once this illusion is seen through, fear dissapears.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

You could do a simple experiment.  reach a state of full understanding, enlightenment as buddha. then lie down on the ground and tell a friend to proceed by pounding the bones of your feet one by one with a hammer. You will see that you are the illusion and you cannot escape from it. And when you see the next hammer blow coming, you will feel fear. You could say : there is people, like the monk who fired himself in Vietnam, that aren't the dream anymore. I don't think so. They have a total control of himself, but they still are the dream. They feel fear but they totally control it. The only scape of illusion is death

No. So wrong on so many levels. Illusion itself implies that it's not real. How can I be something that is not real? I can only believe it. But it will never be true.

It's like saying rope is a snake. No that is only a belief and illusion. The truth is that there is no snake. But it has to become experiencial. Than fear of snake is gone. It's not partialy gone, it's not weaker. It's gone 100%.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

2 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Fear is an inescapable phenomenon of a properly functioning body/mind organism.

No. Fear is psychological, fear is not natural. Fear is caused by the belief and illusion that I am mortal. Once this illusion is seen through, fear is gone. Because truth is that there is nobody that dies. 

Like saying being afraid of ropes is natural. No. The fear of ropes is caused by the unawareness of the truth, that rope is not snake but a rope.

[WelcometoReality]

@Consilience Thank you for taking time to write this. I do feel the same way that it can become a big trap for many people. The ego can easily hide within the neo advaita message and thus creating a huge blind spot.

On 2021-11-20 at 9:03 AM, VeganAwake said:

LOL...

More like a reaction to beliefs being threatened....

The sense of self got brainwashed into thinking meditation is the way to enlightenment....bottom line.

Once this is recognized, it will feel better trust me... the body will no longer be a slave to thought based meditation practices as being important for spiritual growth and all that blah blah.

There's nowhere to get to and no one who could get there.

❤ 

 

This could be a projection. Of course you have to look for yourself to see if that is the case.

[Salvijus]

8 hours ago, mandyjw said:

If I tell a story about being fearless as being a condition that marks my recognition of my fearlessness, I will naturally resist and reject fear. That resistance and rejection is actually the fear itself. 

I agree. Rejection of fear is fear itself. But that's not what I'm saying. Please read more carefully what im saying. I'm saying seeing all fear is caused by illusions. And seeing through unreality of illusions will end the illusions and fear.

It's not an I that bocomes fearless. It's a simple recognition that snake is not real. And fear is a joke. Because death doesn't exists.