Meditation vs. ‘THIS’ (& The Dangers of Neo Advaita Explained)

[VeganAwake]

Enlightenment isn't a real happening within time and space. It's the end of something that never actually started but was experienced as real (illusion of self). And in that sense it could be described as a non happening.

 

[Salvijus]

@Nahm idk bro... i don't think you're being fair here. I ask you a simple question. Isn't it true that there is a fear of snake and awareness that a snake doesn't exists removes the fear of snake? Is this insight not real? Why do you say this insight is illusion?

Edited November 22, 2021 by Salvijus

[dorg]

15 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Yes there is nobody to do anything. Doer does not exists. Doer is the illusion. But how to brake this illusion? This illsuion of a doer is causing all the problems. To realize there is no doer one has to become aware of this truth totally. This insight is not a consiquence of a doer doing things, this insight is a consiquence of an intense awareness that penetrates the illusion of the doer. Makes sense?

You do not have to break the illusion. It is an illusion. It does not actually exist. The illusion of the doer is only a belief. There is no one really there/here to become aware. Thus, no insight is required. An insight would only be required by an illusory doer- and there has never actually been one.

Edited November 22, 2021 by dorg

[Salvijus]

@BipolarGrowth yeah i wasn't talking about the end of pain. I was talking about the end of resistence. I think I was very clear on this.

9 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

I don’t have fear of death on any type of existential/spiritual level

I would question this. I don't think you understand what no fear of death really means. 

[Salvijus]

5 minutes ago, dorg said:

You do not have to break the illusion. It is an illusion. It does not actually exist. The illusion of the doer is only a belief. There is no one really there/here to become aware. That is the illusion. Thus, no insight is required. An insight would only be required by an illusory doer- and there has never actually been one.

Aaaa i see your point. But why does the illusion of doer exists then? So everybody can understand that doer is a belief. But why can't you drop the belief that you're a doer if you know it's not true? Everybody understands that the snake is just a rope. But why do you still feel fear when you see the rope?

I would say because it's only intelectual. A real insight that comes out of awareness removes the belief in the doer on experiencial level. And removes all fear of death. Would that make sense to you? It's not enough to understand there is no doer, it has to become your insight.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

22 minutes ago, dorg said:

You do not have to break the illusion. It is an illusion. It does not actually exist. The illusion of the doer is only a belief. There is no one really there/here to become aware. Thus, no insight is required. An insight would only be required by an illusory doer- and there has never actually been one.

Sorry I think my reply was a bit confusing. Ill try again.

Illusion of the doer exists, right? And this illusion is causing fear right? So is it possible to have an experiencial not intelectual realization that the doer is actually not real? I say yes. How? By becoming aware of the illusion. Awareness of the illusion will destroy the illusion. Who will become aware of the illusion? Will the doer become aware of this illusion? No. Awareness will become aware of delusions. It's not something that the doer does. It's a consiquence of intense awareness.

I think this is a clearer answer.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Salvijus

[Nahm]

18 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Nahm idk bro... i don't think you're being fair here. I ask you a simple question. Isn't it true that there is a fear of snake and awareness that a snake doesn't exists removes the fear of snake? Is this insight not real? Why do you say this insight is illusion?

There could certainly appear to be that experience, sure. 

[Salvijus]

4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

There could certainly appear to be that experience, sure. 

Thank you. So this insight liberates one from the fear of illusionary snake, right? 

In the same way the insight that self is not real will also remove the fear of mortality, is that not so?

Edited November 22, 2021 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

Open thoughts.

Fear of mortality can only happen if you're in delusion. If there's a clear awareness that there is no you, fear is impossible.

Yes, no?

[Mu_]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

@Mu_ sorry, I'm not sure what to make out of what you wrote ? It's too many things all over the place.

And it doesn't adress my point really. That resistence to pain is caused by the illusion that you can die. Because there is a belief that self exists. This belief causes fear of death. If there was a clear experiencial insight that comes from a very high state of awareness that "I don't exist" everything appears just in an empty space, would that end my fear of death or no? I say it would. Because it's logical. What do you think? Isn't it logical for you too?

Your logical reasoning of how you imagined it may happen may turn out like that or similar, but then again maybe not. 

For me it seemed to happen in a different way. It was realized that there is only existence which is not a something or a nothing but could be said to include such. It’s never not been the case. Existence never came from somewhere it is all that’s ever been and what’s reading this is it and what’s typing this is it. It could never be wrong or happening incorrectly nor was there ever a moment in which god/reality/existence came out of alignment with itself. 

There was never a moment in which human or animal was unaligned or away from god/existence for only existence ever was. 

There has ever been and could only ever be wholeness and   complete perfection. Even if it feels uncomfortable, this is included in existence and is not opposite or better than comfort. 

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

 

On 20/11/2021 at 20:11, Nos7algiK said:

 

On 20/11/2021 at 15:28, VeganAwake said:

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Open thoughts.

Fear of mortality can only happen if you're in delusion. If there's a clear awareness that there is no you, fear is impossible.

Yes, no?

No, you may be aware of the unreality of the dream but when a real threat presents itself, instinct takes over. You could control the fear but it would still be there. So fear is part of the illusion. Another thing is that the ego's horror of non-existence, of its disappearance, does not exist. if you are aware of the illusion and of what you are, it is that your ego is transparent. He will continue to fear, but in a weaker way. you can enter death with joy, although at the same time fear

[Salvijus]

12 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

if you are aware of the illusion and of what you are, it is that your ego is transparent. He will continue to fear, but in a weaker way.

That's because your awareness of the illusion of self is not total yet, it's partial. When awareness hits the peak, the illusion of self becomes apparent in it's totally. And then fear is gone. The level of awareness decides how much delusion it penetrate through. That's where degrees of awakening come from. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Salvijus

[Nahm]

29 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Thank you. So this insight liberates one from the fear of illusionary snake, right? 
 

No. Insight is illusory. One liberated, is illusory. 

Quote

In the same way the insight that self is not real will also remove the fear of mortality, is that not so?

Insight is illusion. 

Also, causation is illusory. 

[Salvijus]

@Mu_ i resonate with it. Not sure what to comment about it tho. I feel it's a different topic altogether. Everything is always perfect. Yeah it's cool. Just not a today's topic maybe ? 

[Salvijus]

@Nahm no bro insight is not an illusion.

A clear recognition that the self is not real ends all fear of mortality. I think you can't deny this. I can't see you making a good objection to this statement.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Salvijus

[dorg]

1 minute ago, Salvijus said:

Sorry I think my reply was a bit confusing. Ill try again.

Illusion of the doer exists, right? And this illusion is causing fear right? So is it possible to have an experiencial not intelectual realization that the doer is actually not real? I say yes. How? By becoming aware of the illusion. Awareness of the illusion will destroy the illusion. Who will become aware of the illusion? Will the doer become aware of itself? No. Awareness will become aware of delusions. 

I think this is a clearer answer.

No, the doer does not exist, it may only appear to. Awareness of illusion does not destroy illusion, There is no illusion.

 

[Salvijus]

6 minutes ago, Nahm said:

One liberated, is illusory

I didn't say "somebody" got liberated I sayed, fear has ended and that's it. You are being too picky about every word I say. ? 

[Salvijus]

6 minutes ago, dorg said:

No, the doer does not exist, it may only appear to. Awareness of illusion does not destroy illusion, There is no illusion.

 

Yea there is an illusion. Illusion means you believe in something that does not exist. The belief is still there, and the belief is causing fear. Awareness of this false belief removes the belief and the fear.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Salvijus

[Breakingthewall]

16 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Yea there is an illusion. Illusion means you believe in something that does not exist. The belief is still there, and the belief is causing fear. Awareness of this false belief removes the fear.

Illusion isn't a belief, illusion is what you are. Awareness of that you are a illusion could make the fear weaker, but unless you disappear, so there isn't illusion anymore, fear will exist. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Salvijus]

16 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Illusion isn't a belief, illusion is what you are. Awareness of that you are a belief could make the fear weaker, but unless you disappear, so there isn't illusion anymore, fear will exist. 

What causes fear? It's a belief that I exist and I'm mortal. If recognition that I don't exist is total, then fear is impossible. Total is the key word here. If there is awareness of the false belief in I but there is still fear. Than recognition is not yet total. Some remnants of illusion are still causing fear. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Salvijus