Meditation vs. ‘THIS’ (& The Dangers of Neo Advaita Explained)

[Salvijus]

24 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

I have understood everything you're saying

It doesn't look like you understood what I sayed. You're not able to pick any flaw in my previous post that I asked you to comment about. This fact remains the same no matter how many times you repeat your definition of enlightenment.

You can’t find anything worng with what I sayed. You're simply putting your own definition of enlightenment on top of it and say "this is enlightenment" and everything I say is just "belief" and "preconceived notions".

What I sayed makes so much sense... it really pains me to see that you can't admit something so obvious. Total pain I tell you. Pissed me off even ? sorry but it's true...

Edited November 22, 2021 by Salvijus

[Nahm]

@VeganAwake

Well he’s got ya bruh. You got enough gas and a camcorder over there? Hmu if you need a hand. ?? 

 

[Salvijus]

@Nahm lol guys ? please don't make it into a duel here ? lets just explore what makes sense and what doesn't, lets be on the same team. Only then I'm interested ?

[Salvijus]

Nahm what do you think? Does it make sense that a realization that there is no owner/doer/experiencer removes self-grasping and selfishness? If it doesn't make sense then why not. ?

[Fearless_Bum]

11 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Nahm lol guys ? please don't make it into a duel here ? lets just explore what makes sense and what doesn't, lets be on the same team. Only then I'm interested ?

@Salvijus it's too late for you as you've caused too much trouble. 

Now a member of the High Council (Nahm) has arrived to put a stop to this madness ?‍♂️.

[Salvijus]

@Nahm does it make sense that self grasping is caused by the illusion of self? So automatically it means that if you brake this illusion of self, self grasping will be gone. 

Also does it make sense that self grasping is the cause of resistence and suffering?. One who doesn't resist anything and doesn't have a Self to protect, one who experiencially knows nothing ever bad can happen to him because he doesn't exist. Wouldn't such a being be in total acceptance of everything? Because he experiencially knows not just intelectually that he can't die. So the fear of death and resistence to pain should be gone. Does that make sense? If it doesn't make sense then why not? ?

Edited November 22, 2021 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

4 minutes ago, Fearless_Bum said:

@Salvijus it's too late for you as you've caused too much trouble. 

Now a member of the High Council (Nahm) has arrived to put a stop to this madness ?‍♂️.

Dude please don't do this ? 

Why does it have to be a battle? Can't we explore together what makes sense and what doesn't? We should be on the same team, only then will this have a happy resolve, don’t you think? 

[Fearless_Bum]

@Salvijus ?

I'm just playing lol, no one's cornering you here, you're safe. 

[Salvijus]

Just now, Fearless_Bum said:

@Salvijus ?

I'm just playing lol, no one's cornering you here, you're safe. 

Lol I actually read it the second time and I got the joke ? sorry mb.

[Salvijus]

@Fearless_Bum I wonder if there's anybody at all to whom this makes sense ? idk why but it makes total sense to me...

[Fearless_Bum]

@Salvijus if someone's really mad at you, he won't put a wizard emoji in his message ?.

[Salvijus]

@Fearless_Bum yeah, I think that's what I missed the first time I read it ? 

[Nahm]

23 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Nahm what do you think? Does it make sense that a realization that there is no owner/doer/experiencer removes self-grasping and selfishness? If it doesn't make sense then why not. ?

Self-grasping and selfishness are concepts based on self or selves, which there aren’t, but appear to be. 

11 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Nahm does it make sense that self grasping is caused by the illusion of self? So automatically it means that if you brake this illusion of self, self grasping will be gone. 

Self grasping is also the cause of resistence and suffering. One who doesn't resist anything and doesn't have a Self to protect. One who experiencially knows nothing ever bad can happen to him. Wouldn't such a being be in total acceptance of everything? Because he knows he can't die experiencially. So the fear of death and pain is gone. Does that make sense? If it doesn't make sense then why not? ?

Imagine one of those snow globes that you shake up and then it snows inside, and imagine that snow globe & snow inside it is an appearance. The people inside can feel the snow landing on them, and they can also realize they are that which is appearing as the snow globe, and therefore there isn’t a snow globe with people inside. 

[Mu_]

13 hours ago, Gidiot said:

@VeganAwake in a sense it’s just such a mindfuck cause it truly does seem like there are higher and higher states of consciousness and that you can progress but then you have to ask “to where”? And that’s when I think the bullshitting starts cause how could an apparent person outline for someone a point when they are enlightened I mean you can’t know if you’re enlightened cause there’s no one and there never was and even I don’t know how that can be said definitively. It just seems to be like beyond whatever this is anything and everything is bullshit language concepts stories etc and the sense of self for sure but again no one can know it.

 

like I feel that there is an apparent  path to walk and practices to do but I also don’t think they mean anything just like it doesn’t mean anything intrinsically to go to the gym you just have apparent benefits from and it alters the appearance but I’m probably preaching to the choir here.

Ya pretty much, perhaps with a few caviets that seem to come from different individuals, flavors if you will, but all intrinsically the same stuff.

[Salvijus]

6 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Imagine one of those snow globes that you shake up and then it snows inside, and imagine that snow globe & snow inside it is an appearance. The people inside can feel the snow landing on them, and they can also realize they are that which is appearing as the snow globe, and therefore there isn’t a snow globe with people inside. 

I don't get this ? how does that have anything to do with what Ive sayed? ?

[Salvijus]

10 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Self-grasping and selfishness are concepts based on self or selves, which there aren’t, but appear to be. 

See, this is what I'm saying. There is no self. But there's an illusion of self and this illusion is causing resistence and fear of death. Do we agree on this?

Edited November 22, 2021 by Salvijus

[Mu_]

29 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Nahm does it make sense that self grasping is caused by the illusion of self? So automatically it means that if you brake this illusion of self, self grasping will be gone. 

Also does it make sense that self grasping is the cause of resistence and suffering?. One who doesn't resist anything and doesn't have a Self to protect, one who experiencially knows nothing ever bad can happen to him because he doesn't exist. Wouldn't such a being be in total acceptance of everything? Because he experiencially knows not just intelectually that he can't die. So the fear of death and resistence to pain should be gone. Does that make sense? If it doesn't make sense then why not? ?

Even the notions of selfish and resistence are concepts of a self or doer or so called perceiver.

Go out and poll so called enlightened people, at a certain point you'll realize that there is apparant differences.  Some will say selfishness disappears, others will not.  Some will say bliss remains, some will say bliss comes and goes like anything else.

Ask these teachers what they mean by selfishessness, you'll notice here differences, commonalities and what not.  You won't find an agreed definition.

This is IT, so called selfish, so called good/bad, so called comfortable/uncomfortable.

Even in pain/suffering area's, you poll some teachers or random people, and you'll find out one persons pleasure is anothers pain.  I like to poke my gums till they bleed sometimes, others find this painful, I do not.  Some like really salty, others feel sick from this.

Now you could come up with all pains = pains, maybe mine comes from hot water and yours comes from dildo's in a ass (some like this by the way).  But you could say my pain = your pain.  Maaaaaybe... but you still don't know what my pain is nor your pain is in relation.  

All interesting things to consider.

From my point of view, you really can't nail down ANY-THING, perhaps because there are ultimately no-things, just existence appearing as things and non-things.  Also realizing existence doesn't necessarily mean it will eliminate what you call selfish.  Hell you could be mother theresa, but another person may find your driving habits or friendship dynamics selfish.  This is their experience, but doesn't mean it defines a real thing called objective selfishness.  

[Salvijus]

@Nahm If the illusion of self got totally broken, than all fear of death would go away. Because you would know experiencially you can't die because you don't exist. So fear goes away. If fear goes away, resistence goes away and total acceptance of everything becomes possible. Does this make sense?

[Nahm]

13 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

See, this is what I'm saying. There is no self. But there's an illusion of self and this illusion is causing resistence and fear of death. Do we agree on this?

If a thing is illusory, then there isn’t actually said thing, and what isn’t actual, or ‘there’, also can’t cause or be credited as having caused. 

6 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Nahm If the illusion of self got totally broken, than all fear of death would go away. Because you would know experiencially you can't die because you don't exist. So fear goes away. If fear goes away, resistence goes away and total acceptance of everything becomes possible. Does this make sense?

That implies there is still a separate self. The one who remains which could be in or experience total acceptance (of whatever else). 

[Salvijus]

@Mu_ sorry, I'm not sure what to make out of what you wrote ? It's too many things all over the place.

And it doesn't adress my point really. That resistence to pain is caused by the illusion that you can die. Because there is a belief that self exists. This belief causes fear of death. If there was a clear experiencial insight that comes from a very high state of awareness that "I don't exist" everything appears just in an empty space, would that end my fear of death or no? I say it would. Because it's logical. What do you think? Isn't it logical for you too?