Meditation vs. ‘THIS’ (& The Dangers of Neo Advaita Explained)

[VeganAwake]

17 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@VeganAwake do you understand that Truth-realization is the end of suffering? If you do, than obviously you should understand what end of suffering looks like. It looks like that monk. That's how it looks like. Only someone who is rooted in Truth absolutely can do such a thing. Suffering is the greatest test how deeply is someone rooted in Truth. 

Yes, seeker is just a thought believed in. But to brake the illusion of the seeker, it's not enough to grasp this intelectually. One has to become deeply aware of impermenant nature of the seeker on experiencial level. When one sees that seeker is just a thought on a deepest level, he realizes himself as pure awareness, that can't be touched by any experience. This knowledge and this awareness liberates one from fear of death and suffering. 

If one is capable of suffering than he's not aware of his true nature as pure awareness. He's disconnected from the truth. Suffering and unawareness go together. How unaware of your true nature you are, that's how much you suffer.

Makes sense?

Enlightenment has nothing to do with recognizing your true nature as pure awareness or any of those spiritual ideas.

It's literally the end of knowing anything because it's recognized the individual that thinks it knows or can know is completely unreal.(Cosmic joke)

The word truth implies that there is something that's false... there is nothing that's false... only misunderstandings.

Enlightenment is the end of the seeker that believes it will one day arrive at or attain so-called enlightenment. It's the recognition that there never was an experiencer.

It's the end of suffering because it's recognized there never was a real individual to suffer in the first place.

Enlightenment has nothing to do with the body experiencing or not experiencing pain when the flesh is being burnt.

It's recognizing the very one that claims this pain and suffering as mine is completely unreal.

❤ 

 

 

[VeganAwake]

@Salvijus  in a sense it kind of sounds like we're pointing to the same recognition but it's actually the opposite.

Any sense of becoming aware or recognizing one's true nature as pure awareness is simply the ego trying to re-establish its identity under the radar as this new improved higher spiritual self.... it's often referred to as the spiritual ego.

Enlightenment doesn't result in landing at a conclusion that lines up or meets the seekers agenda. 

It's the Revelation that the seeker and its so-called conclusions about what THIS IS were completely illusory.

❤ 

Edited November 21, 2021 by VeganAwake

[Salvijus]

@VeganAwake so okey, individual is unreal. Every experience happens to nobody. Things just arise in an empty space and there's no "me" behind it. Right?

Now the point I want to make is that this recognition that self doesn't exist has many implications by which you can judge whether one really realized this truth on an experiencial level or not. This realization if it's genuine, it stops all self-grasping. It stops all selfishness, it stops all self-clinging. Because you are aware that the self does not exist. This awareness causes all self grasping to stop. And self grasping is the source of all suffering. Once you are no longer concerned about your own self, because you realized you don't exist, this makes you selfless, all loving, all inclusive being. This also makes go beyond survival instict. This gives you enourmous peace and acceptance. When you realize that I don't exist and nothing bad can ever happen to me. Fear of death goes away, and total acceptance becomes possible. Total acceptance means the end of suffering. Literally you accept everything. In that state of total acceptance you can even burn on fire or have your leg be infested with worms and don't give a damn about it. That level of acceptance is possible only if you there's deep experiencial recognition that I don't exist and nothing ever happens to me.

Those are the signs by which you can judge whether one has truly realized the illusion of self, or is it just mental, intelectual games. If it's just mental, than he will suffer just like the rest of the people when a challenging situation comes. If it's experiencial, than he will not suffer even if he's put on fire.

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by Salvijus

[Nos7algiK]

@SalvijusBut, the monk was suffering. That is why he self-immolated in the first place, in protest of the government. If he truly had no suffering or compassion for others. He would feel no need to do anything even if the government was carrying out radical acts. He was literally protesting and rejecting the nature of how reality was presenting itself to him and other Buddhists. Shall I say, that's how the story goes. All we see is a picture and I believe there is a video as well. So any conclusions we have one what is happening is not actual and just a projection of how we wish to feel about it.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Nos7algiK

[Fearless_Bum]

@Nos7algiK @Salvijus Nirvana is unconditional. 

There is no "if you were enlightened then you would ........" 

If you're gonna walk around naked or light yourself on fire to prove you're enlightened, then you may as well powder your face and start juggling ?.

[Nos7algiK]

Just now, Fearless_Bum said:

@Nos7algiK @Salvijus Nirvana is unconditional. 

There is no "if you were enlightened then you would ........" 

If you're gonna walk around naked or light yourself on fire to prove you're enlightened, then you may as well powder your face and start juggling ?.

Of course there is no "if you were enlightened then you would" lol. That's what I'm trying to say, hence the projecting the meaning onto the photo.

[Salvijus]

@Nos7algiK true, i don't know what that monk was going through inside. It's perhaps unfair to assume too many things.

But my point remains the same, that realization that the self does not exists. That everything is impermenant. And that all experiences happen to nobody, just arise in empty space. This realization ends self grasping. And there can't be any suffering without self grasping. When there's no self grasping, and there's nothing to protect, nothing to defend, total surrender and total acceptance of all existence. Than burning on fire is not a problem. Forget about the monk, just the theory of it. Does it make sense or no?

Edited November 21, 2021 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

@Fearless_Bum nirvana means the end of ego, total dissolution of person. It's very much conditional. If you have ego, it's not nirvana. If you have even a drop of selfishness, it's not nirvana. (Selfishness and ego are the same.)

[Fearless_Bum]

2 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Nos7algiKForget about the monk, just the theory of it. Does it make sense or no?

@Salvijus theory is not Direct Experience, it sounds nice but it will never be true. 

Nirvana doesn't mean you're just gonna sit on the street and slowly die because you don't care about anything, if reality manifests as such then okay that's what is happening. 

Nirvana is like turning into a Lion, there's no fear of death, no suffering, but if you lunge at me I'll bite or run away right at that moment. 

[Nos7algiK]

14 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Nos7algiK Does it make sense or no?

@Salvijus I understand where you are coming from and I would agree our perception of fear drops the more self-aware we become. But, that doesn't mean we become fools who lack self preservation, at the same time it doesn't mean we become fools who live in fear of death. It's not definable, yet it's always being expressed. It just "is". Whatever "is", is it.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Nos7algiK

[Fearless_Bum]

3 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Fearless_Bum nirvana means the end of ego, total dissolution of person. It's very much conditional. If you have ego, it's not nirvana. If you have even a drop of selfishness, it's not nirvana. (Selfishness and ego are the same.)

Selfishness is impossible, doesn't matter how selfish you think you are, your existence is crucial for all other forms of life to exist. 

The breathing of the being sitting reading this is allowing the plants to grow, the living organism is harmonious with the universe. It is thought which says "I'm selfish". 

Selflessness is the case, and in its selflessness it manifests as one who thinks he/she is selfish. 

[Salvijus]

Hmmm... this is starting to get messy and it's drifting from the main point that I made. 

Total acceptance of everything is possible. This total acceptance can be tested with pain. If one is truely all accepting and has no fear of death and has a clear experiencial recognition that he doesn't exist, a being like that can accept any pain in the universe and not suffer from it. Because suffering happens only in resistence to pain. And resistence happen only because of psychological self grasping, resistence is happening only because there's no realization that nothing ever bad can happen to you. 

So the point. Do you get the point here? Unless you're capable of total acceptance you're not enlightened. That's the point. And total acceptance is easy to test really ?  that's how you can distinguished between those who have realized they don't exist intelectually and those for whom this is a living reality. So much so, that even if worms are infesting your leg you just sit there without any care in the world. I'm speaking about ramana maharshi. He would not even bother eating, others had to put food into his mouth because he just didn't care about anything at all. Now that you can't fake it. No fake enlightened person could do that. That can only be done if your realization is genuine not intelectual.

That's why I sayed you're not enlightened unless you can burn on fire with total equanimity. And I still think it's true. Tremendous level of awareness of impermenance and awareness of noself is needed. And those levels are possible. Now was that monk at that level? Idk. Not really important here.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Salvijus

[VeganAwake]

@Salvijus that individual right there that has been acquiring so-called spiritual knowledge over apparent time and now believes it has gained enough knowledge to have an educated discussion on what enlightenment entails is completely illusory..... there's no one there.

And when those spiritual concepts get challenged or threatened it feels like someone is challenging/threatening MY concepts.... it feels very personal.

This is what suffering is... the identification as the vulnerable individual that has to defend itself.

There's apparent concepts but there's no one behind them... no owner... take a close LOOK!

❤ 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by VeganAwake

[Salvijus]

@VeganAwake dude. Do you even read what I write? I totally agree with you there is no owner or doer or experiencer. Everything happens just in an empty space.

My point is that a genuine realization that there's no self, no doer, no owner gives a being total acceptance of the universe.

Realizing that there is no me = no psycholgical self grasping anymore, no fear of dying = total acceptance of the universe

Total acceptance is testable. If one is suffering than his acceptance is not total. Thus his realization of no self is not complete...

Edited November 21, 2021 by Salvijus

[VeganAwake]

9 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@VeganAwake dude. Do you even read what I write? I totally agree with you there is no owner or doer or experiencer. Everything happens just in an empty space.

My point is that this realization that there's no self, no doer, no owner gives a being total acceptance of the universe.

Realizing that there is no me = no psycholgical self grasping anymore, no fear of dying = total acceptance of the universe

Total acceptance is testable. If one is suffering than his acceptance is not total. Thus his realization of no self is not complete...

Enlightenment has nothing to do with total acceptance. It's the recognition that there never was an individual that could make a decision to accept things or not.

Enlightenment is actually very rare and it's never what the sense of self thinks it will be like.

There's no such thing as an enlightened individual that would test out the authenticity of enlightenment because there is no one left that would care to prove anything.

❤ 

 

[Salvijus]

13 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Enlightenment has nothing to do with total acceptance

Wrong.

Experiential recognition that there is no one who makes descisions leads to total surrender and acceptance of all universe. That's if it is a genuine recognition that comes from a very high level of awareness. If it's just mental or intelectual recognition. Than it's useless.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Salvijus

[VeganAwake]

4 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Wrong.

Recognition that there is no one to make descisions leads to total surrender and acceptance of all universe.

Oh resistance and judgments can still arise, there just not arising for anyone.

Enlightenment isn't about becoming a meditating pacifist that would get walked on or taken advantage of by the general public.

It's fair game after Enlightenment and that's the true Freedom being sought after.

❤ 

 

 

[Salvijus]

3 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Oh resistance and judgments can still arise, there just not arising for anyone

Resistence arise only if the recognition of no self is not complete. Depending of the degree of one's realization, that is the level of resistence and suffering one experiences.

Absolute realization of no self leads to total freedom from suffering.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Salvijus

[VeganAwake]

12 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Resistence arise only if the recognition of no self is not complete. Depending of the degree of one's realization, that is the level of resistence and suffering one experiences.

Absolute realization of no self leads to total freedom from suffering.

No one has an absolute realization and there are not degrees and levels of enlightenment.

It's total freedom for no one because it's recognized there never was an individual bound and suffering in the first place.

Levels and degrees of Enlightenment only occur within the dream story of a real separate individual that could attain certain degrees and levels towards completeness or wholeness.

All there is is wholeness. 

 

 

[Salvijus]

@VeganAwake 

5 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

No one has an absolute realization

Wrong. Insight does exist and it does happen. This insight that there's no self happens out of intense awareness that penetrates all dillusion of self/owner/doer. There are degrees to it also. How intense your awareness is, that's how much delusion you can penetrate through. Depending on how much delusion you penetrate through, that big your acceptance and freedom from suffering is.