Desire is the basis of ALL actions

[WokeBloke]

Firstly what is a desire...

 

Its best to look at its components:

I want (fill in the blank)

1. It requires a subject (referred to as I) ex. trash cans and pencil sharpeners don't have desires because they aren't subjects

    -> For those interested a subject (in my view) is defined as someone (animal, human) that is alive and experiencing 

2. It requires a thing that is wanted

   -> Object of desire (money, car, house)

   -> Nonphysical things (better state of being, new relationship, reduction of pain)

3. Has a reason behind it

   -> Either conscious or unconscious reason. Ex. I want to eat! The reason is because I am hungry. 

 

So every want has these 3 components.

I should note that desires do not need to be put into words to be desires. Ex. if you scratch your nose that is because there was an uncomfortable sensation that you wanted to get rid of but most people don't think to themselves "I want to scratch my nose". the action was still based on desire.

 

Now the claim is that all human (and animal) actions originate from desire.

In other words NO action is ever preformed that is not desire.

Does anybody disagree?

 

 

[SOUL]

It sounds familiar... I think someone said something about it thousands of years ago.... hmmmm

[JuliusCaesar]

The problem with this isn't that it's true, but rather that it's limited. We could just as easily say that emotions are the basis of all actions. A human prefers eating pizza over rice and vegetables(value judgement/emotional reasoning). Therefore they eat the pizza because they feel best about that decision relative to all the other alternatives of which they're aware.

 

The problem with saying that all action is created by feelings. Is that we could just as easily argue that logic creates all action. Like a human wants to eat pizza because they think it's true that the pizza is tasty. Or maybe even they think it's true that eating pizza makes them cool because they're consuming it at a party with friends. And thus they think it's false that vegetables and rice consumption is cool. Or we could say they feel fasting is a unfavorable action because they think it's true they have to eat to survive etc etc.

 

The problem with saying that all action is produced by logic. Is that we could also say all action is fear based in it's genesis. That the human is eating pizza and maybe also drinking beer because they fear their friends won't like it if they don't. Or that they're eating food and drinking liquid because they fear starvation and dehydration.

 

Can you recognize a pattern forming here? No matter how we endeavor to understand chains of causality as humans. We run into this reoccurring theme where an infinite amount of variables that are all interconnected go into the chain. So our attempts to understand things simplistically always falls short of the full truth. It's only by becoming conscious of infinity that this problem can be rectified. Until then, you're searching for a needle in a haystack, where all the hairs of hay are needles in disguise.

[WokeBloke]

25 minutes ago, SOUL said:

It sounds familiar... I think someone said something about it thousands of years ago.... hmmmm

who said it?

[WokeBloke]

9 minutes ago, JuliusCaesar said:

The problem with this isn't that it's true, but rather that it's limited. We could just as easily say that emotions are the basis of all actions. A human prefers eating pizza over rice and vegetables(value judgement/emotional reasoning). Therefore they eat the pizza because they feel best about that decision relative to all the other alternatives of which they're aware.

 

The problem with saying that all action is created by feelings. Is that we could just as easily argue that logic creates all action. Like a human wants to eat pizza because they think it's true that the pizza is tasty. Or maybe even they think it's true that eating pizza makes them cool because they're consuming it at a party with friends. And thus they think it's false that vegetables and rice consumption is cool. Or we could say they feel fasting is a unfavorable action because they think it's true they have to eat to survive etc etc.

 

The problem with saying that all action is produced by logic. Is that we could also say all action is fear based in it's genesis. That the human is eating pizza and maybe also drinking beer because they fear their friends won't like it if they don't. Or that they're eating food and drinking liquid because they fear starvation and dehydration.

 

Can you recognize a pattern forming here? No matter how we endeavor to understand chains of causality as humans. We run into this reoccurring theme where an infinite amount of variables that are all interconnected go into the chain. So our attempts to understand things simplistically always falls short of the full truth. It's only by becoming conscious of infinity that this problem can be rectified. Until then, you're searching for a needle in a haystack, where all the hairs of hay are needles in disguise.

I might suggest that emotions, logic, fear and anything else are all aspects of a person's condition that influence what their desire will be. So like all of these are ingredients in the soup of desire. ultimately though these coalesce into a desire (either verbal or non verbal) that the subject either acts on or doesn't act on. Ex. hunger doesn't need to be acted on. 

Thank you for your post because it makes me think about this more deeply. 

Would you say all of those things you listed could be regarded as ingredients that go into what desires are formed?

You could also add things like external conditions, body condition to the list of ingredients in the desire soup.

[JuliusCaesar]

21 hours ago, WokeBloke said:

Would you say all of those things you listed could be regarded as ingredients that go into what desires are formed?

The problem with saying that, is there's infinitely more ingredients that go into it as well.

21 hours ago, WokeBloke said:

You could also add things like external conditions, body condition to the list of ingredients in the desire soup.

Exactly, sensory perceptions, other people, environment, things that happened in the past etc. The change of causality never ends and it also never begins either.

[BipolarGrowth]

5 hours ago, JuliusCaesar said:

The problem with saying that, is there's infinitely more ingredients that go into it as well.

Exactly, sensory perceptions, other people, environment, things that happened in the past etc. The change of causality never ends and it also never begins either.

Yep, dependent origination. The fly on your wall is also in the equation of whether you eat pizza or rice, and this has nothing to do with the fly somehow affecting desire more than other aspects of existence. Everything is the reason for everything. Desire is just something which seems like more of a central or direct cause than the other things. 

Edited November 21, 2021 by BipolarGrowth

[Nahm]

@WokeBloke

Skinny that all down to direct experience. 

[hyruga]

Well, if you reframe everything to be a desire, then yes desire is the basis of all actions.

For example, if you are unable to pay for the things that you want, then you have the desire to be prosperous.

If you find life too overwhelming, then you have the desire to feel peace.

And when life gets boring, you desire to have excitement.

Edited November 24, 2021 by hyruga